Delta, the biggest and the best?.....article

[jke406]

S'ok, my airline's bank account and beat up your airline's bank account.

Neener neener neener...

Nu

No one cares about your airline's bank account.

But how's your paycheck looking compared to a Delta pilot of equal longevity? How about the work rules? Bases? Expectations?

oops.

 

[Heavy Set]

No one cares about your airline's bank account.

But how's your paycheck looking compared to a Delta pilot of equal longevity? How about the work rules? Bases? Expectations?

oops.

NuGuy got OWNED by that remark.

 

[737 Pylt]

And after all of this, a 12 year 777 DAL/FO flying international makes about what a 3 year SWA/FO makes ping ponging around Texas. You guys are doing better now, but you need to get a spine and get your money back.

Holy crap! Note the date and the time.
I actually agree with tanker clown!:beer:

737

 

[UALjan15]

The DAL pilots received $1.25B in cash and stock value from their claim. 92% was cash value, 8% was stock for the 8% that didn't presell.

The value of the concessionary package was less than $600M over 3.5 years.

The average DAL pilot received over $200K in cash from their claim for a 3.5 year concessionary contract containing a 14% pay cut. Even the most junior pilot on the list who had never turned a wheel at DAL before being furloughed and then spent the next 5.5 years on furlough received over $100K after bankruptcy exit.

You seem to be implying that the average $200K payout per pilot is direct compensation for the $600m concession package over 3.5 years. Is this all there is to the story?

Unless I totally misunderstood the BK agreements, the cash/stock payout was in lieu of your entire defined benefit pension plan, which was of course terminated. Correct?

You can do some fuzzy math if you'd like to compare the average pilot's payout today with what he would have had in the old pension (and you sure did better than the UAL & AAA groups), but comparing the payout vs the wages given up seems like apples and oranges.

 

[WSurf]

Simply the Best?

Delta Airlines sued in Moore


By Sarah A. Reid
Staff writer

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Staff file photoThis 2006 photo shows fire trucks shooting water over the first Delta Airlines flight from Atlanta to Moore County Airport.
CARTHAGE — The Moore County Airport Authority is suing Delta Air Lines for breach of contract, accusing the airline of spotty service, lost luggage and hampered marketing.
The legal dispute is a far cry from the fanfare that marked Delta’s arrival in Moore County in June 2006. Last November, the airline announced it would cease its seasonal Delta Connection flights at Southern Pines because of poor ticket sales. But, according to the complaint, Delta failed to even include Southern Pines on its reservations Web site.
The lawsuit, filed Feb. 13 in Moore County Superior Court, accuses Delta of breach of contract. The Airport Authority had lured Delta by offering an incentives package that included revenue guarantees. But the airline failed to live up to its side of the bargain, the complaint said.
“Delta’s failure to provide quality service and operation ... as well as other delays, problems, and errors on the part of Delta, inconvenienced and alienated passengers,” the suit says.
That creating bad publicity, created serious “scheduling implications” with the Transportation Security Administration and cost the authority money for extra staffing, the complaint states.
During golfing season, the airline connected travelers through its Atlanta hub up to six times a week.
The contract with Delta said the Airport Authority agreed to pay for lodging and other expenses related to training its employees to work for Delta. It also agreed to provide ticketing, processing, baggage, boarding and discharge services. The authority waived airport fees, gave Delta’s planes fuel at cost, and paid to help passengers who were displaced because of delays or lost bags.
The authority agreed to pay Delta a maximum of $500,000 in 2006, and up to $700,000 in 2007, depending on Delta’s revenues.
Delta claimed the authority owes it $700,000 for the 2007 service, according to the lawsuit. The authority has not paid Delta, and it says Delta was in breach of contract.
“In addition the Airport Authority disputes Delta’s method of calculating revenue losses as set forth in the invoice,” the complaint says.
Late flights
The authority alleges many of Delta’s flights into Southern Pines last year were more than an hour late. At least one flight was more than six hours late.
“Customers bags were consistently lost,” the complaint says. “As Pinehurst is a golf destination and many passengers would bring their clubs, this created a serious problem.”
Customers who used a toll-free number or Delta’s reservations Web site often couldn’t find the Southern Pines airport, or were told there weren’t flights available on days when there were flights, according to the lawsuit.
Fares initially were very high, but during the start of the 2007 season Delta offered reduced rates. The Airport Authority, which was also responsible for marketing the flights, was not told about those reduced rates soon enough to advertise them effectively, according to the complaint.
Other promotions paid by the authority and community partners were not launched correctly because of delays gaining approval from Delta, according to the complaint. An in-flight movie, which the authority paid for, was never aired.
Thomas Van Camp, the lawyer representing the authority, did not return a call for comment. A Delta spokeswoman said the company does not comment on pending litigation.
Staff writer Sarah A. Reid can be reached at [email protected] or 323-4848, ext. 280.
Keep up to date with all the news! Try our TxtAlerts, Fayobserver.com mobile edition, and our PM Newscast every weekday at 3:00.
To subscribe to The Fayetteville Observer, click here.

 

[Speedbird34]

And after all of this, a 12 year 777 DAL/FO flying international makes about what a 3 year SWA/FO makes ping ponging around Texas. You guys are doing better now, but you need to get a spine and get your money back.

That is not true. On Airline pilot central .com salary survey a 12 yr SWA FO makes $131 same as a Delta 777 FO.
A 3 year SWA FO makes $90+ same as most Delta FO on most wide bodies and B737-800. SWA FO has no international pay or per deim and works a lot harder.
I would love more pay. We get a raise every year. Our first year pay is ahead of SWA. We will move ahead of SWA with our next contract either via a merger or new contract at the end of 2009.
Our CEO was thinking of increasing our pay at the end of the 1st quarter for every Delta employee with no negotiations.
Delta Air Lines has a very good employee and management relationship. We try to work hand in hand for success.
It is not all about money. This is a dream job where you get to see the world in style. That is worth a fewer dollars less to me.
SWA is a great Airline but I stop updating my application when I got hired at Delta Air Lines. I am thrilled to be employed here.

 

[Tanker Clown]

That is not true. On Airline pilot central .com salary survey a 12 yr SWA FO makes $131 same as a Delta 777 FO.
A 3 year SWA FO makes $90+ same as most Delta FO on most wide bodies and B737-800. SWA FO has no international pay or per deim and works a lot harder.
I would love more pay. We get a raise every year. Our first year pay is ahead of SWA. We will move ahead of SWA with our next contract either via a merger or new contract at the end of 2009.
Our CEO was thinking of increasing our pay at the end of the 1st quarter for every Delta employee with no negotiations.
Delta Air Lines has a very good employee and management relationship. We try to work hand in hand for success.
It is not all about money. This is a dream job where you get to see the world in style. That is worth a fewer dollars less to me.
SWA is a great Airline but I stop updating my application when I got hired at Delta Air Lines. I am thrilled to be employed here.

First of all, we are kinda comparing apples and oranges. The pay per hour vs. pay per trip. That said, with being able to increase personal productivity, the 3 year SWA/FO can easily out-earn the 12 year DAL/FO on whatever equipment you choose. The fact that we are even splitting hairs on this is quite sad. Even if we agree to call the 3 year SWA/FO even with the DAL/FO on the 777, we're still comparing a guy with 9 more years of longevity, flying international on a 777 vs. a 3 year guppy FO flying around Texas. You guys need to man up, get a backbone, and call BS!

My whole point is, SWA has kept the industry standard for the past 5 years or so. They are in contract negotiations right now. It's hard for them to justify a raise when they are beating the pants off Delta in compensation. A rising tide raises all boats. Delta needs to be the rising tide. AMR looks like they are going to at least put up a fight to get their cash back. Seems like a lot of DAL guys on FI are more likely to just take what they get. Seems like they are just following our favorite Delta appologist, General Lee, and they'll take whatever the company offers.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Simply the Best?
Delta Airlines sued in Moore

By Sarah A. Reid
Staff writer

This 2006 photo shows fire trucks shooting water over the first Delta Airlines flight from Atlanta to Moore County Airport.

CARTHAGE — The Moore County Airport Authority is suing Delta Air Lines for breach of contract,

Last November, the airline announced it would cease its seasonal Delta Connection flights at Southern Pines because of poor ticket sales.

The authority agreed to pay Delta a maximum of $500,000 in 2006, and up to $700,000 in 2007, depending on Delta’s revenues.

Delta claimed the authority owes it $700,000 for the 2007 service, according to the lawsuit. The authority has not paid Delta, and it says Delta was in breach of contract.

The authority alleges many of Delta’s flights into Southern Pines last year were more than an hour late. At least one flight was more than six hours late.
“Customers bags were consistently lost,” the complaint says. “As Pinehurst is a golf destination and many passengers would bring their clubs, this created a serious problem.”

Fares initially were very high, but during the start of the 2007 season Delta offered reduced rates. The Airport Authority, which was also responsible for marketing the flights, was not told about those reduced rates soon enough to advertise them effectively, according to the complaint.

An in-flight movie, which the authority paid for, was never aired.

Staff writer Sarah A. Reid can be reached at [email protected]

To subscribe to The Fayetteville Observer, click here.

As luck would have it, I flew some of those empty flights. Several things to note about the article.

• This was an ASA deal. It is likely that the contract between the parties may have indemnification language in favor of Delta forcing SkyWest to deal with their problem.
• The article says "Delta" is in breach of contrat because they failed to show an inflight movie on an RJ.
• The article indicates the city never paid for their side of the agreeent.
• The Pinehurst Golf Club threatens to sue anyone who uses their copyrighted name in promotional items. They have sued businesses in Southern Pines and even in the Village of Pinehurst for using the name "Pinehurst." So, who wants to buy a ticket to Sandhills? Moore County? Pine Trees & trailer homes? (which is all that is there)
• The contract in 2006 was after a similar deal had failed. The city came up with another nearly million dollar subsidy to get RJ service so 5 to 10 people could connect to Atlanta without the hassle of driving 45 minutes to KRDU, or 90 miles to US Air's Charlotte hub.

The politicians who come up with these deals to get jet service to their cities should be held accountable to the taxpayers. What they want is their own private jet & some federal money. What they get is RJ service on a poorly performing route.

W Surf - you should know the difference between ASA, a subsidiary of SkyWest Airlines Holdings and Delta Air Lines. The writer obviously does not.

 

[Speedbird34]

First of all, we are kinda comparing apples and oranges. The pay per hour vs. pay per trip. That said, with being able to increase personal productivity, the 3 year SWA/FO can easily out-earn the 12 year DAL/FO on whatever equipment you choose. The fact that we are even splitting hairs on this is quite sad. Even if we agree to call the 3 year SWA/FO even with the DAL/FO on the 777, we're still comparing a guy with 9 more years of longevity, flying international on a 777 vs. a 3 year guppy FO flying around Texas. You guys need to man up, get a backbone, and call BS!

My whole point is, SWA has kept the industry standard for the past 5 years or so. They are in contract negotiations right now. It's hard for them to justify a raise when they are beating the pants off Delta in compensation. A rising tide raises all boats. Delta needs to be the rising tide. AMR looks like they are going to at least put up a fight to get their cash back. Seems like a lot of DAL guys on FI are more likely to just take what they get. Seems like they are just following our favorite Delta appologist, General Lee, and they'll take whatever the company offers.

Tanker clown I think you have earned your last name CLOWN!!
Your Funny and not very popular. I got lots of BUDDIES at Southwest Airlines and know all about picking up trips. Do you think a Delta pilot does not have the same options.
I would like to buy you a drink some day. You could use a few cold ones!.

 

[XShuttle]

That is not true. On Airline pilot central .com salary survey a 12 yr SWA FO makes $131 same as a Delta 777 FO.
A 3 year SWA FO makes $90+ same as most Delta FO on most wide bodies and B737-800. SWA FO has no international pay or per deim and works a lot harder.
I would love more pay. We get a raise every year. Our first year pay is ahead of SWA. We will move ahead of SWA with our next contract either via a merger or new contract at the end of 2009.
Our CEO was thinking of increasing our pay at the end of the 1st quarter for every Delta employee with no negotiations.
Delta Air Lines has a very good employee and management relationship. We try to work hand in hand for success.
It is not all about money. This is a dream job where you get to see the world in style. That is worth a fewer dollars less to me.
SWA is a great Airline but I stop updating my application when I got hired at Delta Air Lines. I am thrilled to be employed here.

Wow, you guys got screwed just like everyone else in bankruptcy. Our CEO is thinking of giving everyone a new car and a down payment on a house. Who cares what your CEO is thinking of doing, what is he doing. You think you have a good contract because a wide body F/O makes almost as much as a 3rd year SWA 737 F/O. Even if that were remotely true, which it is not, it's a wide body vs. a narrow body! With SWA's work rules most of their F/O's make more then DAL narrow body Captains. I hope you guys don't take that this is a dream job I'm just happy to be here mentality into contract negotiations or we will all be screwed. It's great to like your job but when your getting pissed on and the CEO tells you it's raining don't think everything is great your still going to come out smelling like piss.

P.S. I think Delta's management team is doing a much better job then most airline management teams out there. But you contract still sucks!

 

[Tanker Clown]

Tanker clown I think you have earned your last name CLOWN!!
Your Funny and not very popular. I got lots of BUDDIES at Southwest Airlines and know all about picking up trips. Do you think a Delta pilot does not have the same options.
I would like to buy you a drink some day. You could use a few cold ones!.

I'm not talking about picking up trips per se. I'm talking about trading for more productive trips. What if I changed my argument to a 6 year SWA/FO. Then the debate is really over. The 6 year guy way out earns a 12 year DAL/FO on the 777 flying international.

Speedbird, you shouldn't be pissed at me about this. Be mad at your CEO, your contract, and your pilot group for letting this happen. Don't be mad at me for laying out the facts. You guys should make more than the 6 year SWA/FO. A DAL narrow body Capt should make more than a narrow body SWA FO.

Put down the Delta kool-aid and demand you get SWA wages for flying bigger jets on international routes.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Surprising that pilots for regionals, NWA and others are getting on the board and saying Delta's contract stinks. No doubt, SWA has a better contract as does FedEx and UPS. However if you look around the industry at NWA, CAL, US Air, and United, you see that Delta's contract is one of the best of the legacies and arguably the best. So why aren't you including Delta's peer group in your insults?

Fact is, Delta is fighting its' way out of a deep hole and is seeing some daylight. Overall, Delta still has that good ol' southern mentality that safety, hard work, service, and a good product are what is required for success. I say, good for them!

Our industry has been victimized by get rich quick deal makers since before Frank Lorenzo. If a Legacy carrier is actually trying to follow a sound business plan and giving credit to their line employees for success, I again say - good for them!

Delta's having their day in the sun after a long hard period in the company's history - let them enjoy it. The appropriate response is, congratulations!

 

[Tanker Clown]

Maybe that's the whole point. Right now it's Delta's day in the sun. They need to take advantage of it while they can. Lord knows that the managment of the legacies took advantage of the pilot groups when they could.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Maybe that's the whole point. Right now it's Delta's day in the sun. They need to take advantage of it while they can.

Well their MEC just negotiated a 40% raise for another airline and 25% for themselves when they were not even in section 6 negotiations.

I'd say folks are going to have to find some other reason to complain if Delta's pilots just got NWA a 40% raise.

That's not restoration, but it is pretty significant movement in the right direction if the deal isn't scuttled.

 

[Speedbird34]

Wow, you guys got screwed just like everyone else in bankruptcy. Our CEO is thinking of giving everyone a new car and a down payment on a house. Who cares what your CEO is thinking of doing, what is he doing. You think you have a good contract because a wide body F/O makes almost as much as a 3rd year SWA 737 F/O. Even if that were remotely true, which it is not, it's a wide body vs. a narrow body! With SWA's work rules most of their F/O's make more then DAL narrow body Captains. I hope you guys don't take that this is a dream job I'm just happy to be here mentality into contract negotiations or we will all be screwed. It's great to like your job but when your getting pissed on and the CEO tells you it's raining don't think everything is great your still going to come out smelling like piss.

P.S. I think Delta's management team is doing a much better job then most airline management teams out there. But you contract still sucks!

Why all the anger. I am happy with my job. Great job the best for ME in the USA. Can we get a better contract and do we need a better contract. Yes.
Do I feel other Airlines contracts are that much better than Delta's. Not really the USA market sucks overall and needs huge improvements.
But it has its positives. A Dash 8 captain in Africa makes more money than almost any Pilot in the USA including Southwest. He pays less tax and has better benefits. Same story in Japan and most of Asia. But he does not live in God's own country the USA! That is a big negative at least for me.
So do not presume to lecture me on what a good contract looks like. Your knowledge of the world is limited to the USA most likely. Do you know what it feels like to get 12 uniforms for free on the first day of work? 100% free medical, free tuition for kids, free housing, free relocation and movers, Cost of living adjustment for your base especially in places like New York. Hell yeah we sure need improvements and if the USA made flying airplanes an exclusive of aristocrats like France we would have our lifestyles and standards preserved.
But you are a Pilot for some one and I know you most likely are no royalty and hence our situation.
Delta has the right vision and that is why I work for them. Our company vision is to be the greatest Airline in the World. We can do it and we hire very good and highly educated people. We have a global perspective that is lacking in most other Airlines in the USA. And we have courage to explore and go long distances from home into the depts. of Africa. I became a pilot not only for the money but also for the adventure!