Details about the near-crash in Germany

[BigMeat]

I think the Captain is just as much to blame as the FO for letting the FO land in those conditions.

Im not saying you are wrong but usually when you get to that point in your career flying larger aircraft you kind know how to put in a crosswind correction and hold it. The Capt. may not have know she sucked that bad!

 

[viper548]

Im not saying you are wrong but usually when you get to that point in your career flying larger aircraft you kind know how to put in a crosswind correction and hold it. The Capt. may not have know she sucked that bad!

Very true

 

[Bringupthebird]

Remember, the inputs from the side sticks are algebraically summed, so equal opposite inputs result in no control surface deflection. Unless the CA had the presence of mind to press the sidestick takeover command button, there may not have been alot he could have done in the heat of battle.

So how does the CA respond when he askes the F/O if she feels comfortable making the landing and she (knowing the pressure on her to prove herself) says untruthfully, "Ya!"?

 

[CA1900]

She should have stayed home that day and left the flying to the professionals........

:laugh: You crack me up!


Surely you haven't forgotten you-know-who... (No, not her; the other one.)


For those who haven't heard the story, this girl I was flying with at CommutAir, who bungled an ILS up pretty badly -- she flatly refused to keep her damn eyes inside until I called the field in sight.

"But I see it!" she insisted.

"There nothing out there but clouds. Stay inside."

"But I see it!"

And so on. Grrr. Guess she was too good for SOPs.


Of course, she was all over the sky every time she picked her head up, and when we finally did pop out of the clouds at ~500 feet, we're pointing at the terminal rather than the runway.

In my headset I hear, "Oh, god! Help me help me help me help me!"

"I have the controls. Let go."

She then cried her eyes out in the cockpit as we packed up for the day. "This ruined my whole day!" she sobbed.


W. T. F. .... ?


She's now at a certain Atlanta-based low-cost carrier. Good luck with her, guys!

 

[Lear70]

The CA doesn't give the F/O the option in that situation.

Had that happen before, even with experienced F/O's. The weather is that crappy, I simply say, "I'm going to take this leg because of the weather, you can fly a couple legs tomorrow if you'd like, but the weather sucks and I'm going to fly it."

No discussion. It's not a democracy. That's where judgment comes in.

 

[CA1900]

No discussion. It's not a democracy. That's where judgment comes in.

Absolutely.

In this case, with flat terrain and not particularly low weather, I didn't see any harm in letting her fly it. Guess I learned from that one!

 

[Bringupthebird]

The CA doesn't give the F/O the option in that situation.

Had that happen before, even with experienced F/O's. The weather is that crappy, I simply say, "I'm going to take this leg because of the weather, you can fly a couple legs tomorrow if you'd like, but the weather sucks and I'm going to fly it."

No discussion. It's not a democracy. That's where judgment comes in.

Fast forward to a future USAirways cockpit with a west captain and an grizzled east F/O.... The crew briefing begins with , "All pleasantries aside..."

 

[tailhookah]

It's sad... another idle go-go cage

 

[Mookie]

the only person with bad judgement on that video was the captain even trying the landing.

 

[waveflyer]

B1900- What did you learn? You have an example that seems to back up a bias. We all have those if we want.

I just warn against a broad brush- whether it's black-white, male-female, low-time-high-time-- Assuming anything makes a more dangerous flight deck. We can all suck on any given day. Your girl might be awful- but is it b/c she's a girl? Are you going to treat all women differently b/c of her?

Agree with Lear 100%. If the FO has your confidence- you may consider letting them fly after briefing the hell out of what to do if you need to go around or take over. (After all- i would rather have someone have experience doing some of these things while sitting next to me than as a new captain flying w/ a reserve FO...)

But a young inexperienced FO- that's not much of a discussion.

 

[viper548]

The CA doesn't give the F/O the option in that situation.
No discussion. It's not a democracy. That's where judgment comes in.

Exactly!

 

[tailhookah]

waveflyer wrote:

If the FO has your confidence- you may consider letting them fly after briefing the hell out of what to do if you need to go around or take over. (After all- i would rather have someone have experience doing some of these things while sitting next to me than as a new captain flying w/ a reserve FO...)

WRONG........... CA's authority man. The buck stops w/ him.

Tail

PS-waveflyer... you are the type of new aged pu$$y that would let your girl friend fly you into the ground because of your lack of cojones...

 

[CA1900]

B1900- What did you learn? You have an example that seems to back up a bias. We all have those if we want.

I learned, between that incident and a couple of others, that this particular individual wasn't up to the task. That's it. No gender bias here; just relaying a story.

My only issue is when a lower-time [insert minority here] gets put in a position that his or her experience doesn't warrant, simply to make numbers look good. I've flown with terrific women, too -- the difference is that they had experience commensurate with their position.

My argument is with affirmative action, not with women flying airplanes. (Indeed, I've flown with several who've been just terrific, including one at my current job just a few weeks ago.)

Your girl might be awful- but is it b/c she's a girl? Are you going to treat all women differently b/c of her?

No, not at all.

As I said, it's this particular individual. Just ask BigMeat; he knows exactly who I'm talking about, and has had similar experiences flying with her. My story is not the first time she's thrown up her arms and said "I can't do this" during a flight.

 

[freight dork]

I would be willing to bet that the FO on this flight had less than 1000 hours total time. In Europe most FO's are extremely unexperienced. They have "junior" FO's here (less than 1500 hours total) and you can spot them because they only have two stripes on their epaulettes. I see the two stripers regularly flying Airbus and Boeing equipment. Most airlines, even the "Legacy" airlines, hire fo's straight out of flight school. I fly with FO's all the time that have under 500 hours total time. Their SOP's are good but their handling is atrocious at times. Once the autopilot is turned off I feel like a flight instructor explaining crosswind landing technique.

 

[turn&pull]

I hate to say it kids, but I have flown with plenty of pilots from all experience levels that don't know how to land in a crosswind.

I have flown with Purdue grads fresh out of school that handle an airplane beautifully and have also flown with high time Captains that land with a side-load in even a light crosswind.

Some people got it...some don't. You know who you are.