Will DAL/NW Merge? Yay or Nay?

[ExAF]

Touche'

Well, I was a Blue Book DTW DC-9 FO at NW before I left to go to DL.

Touche'! Guess that answers that. He didn't see that one coming did he! Kind of walked...no ran into that one!:laugh: Just one more thought. Will you be junior to yourself after the merger if it happens?:laugh:

 

[lowecur]

I think the bigger hang up will be the relationship amongst the NWA committee members than between the DAL and NWA MECs.

This entire concept of getting out in front of a merger appears to be an alien concept to some members of the NWA committees. The NWA pilots have a more divided group, MEC, and committee structure. Therefore they need more time to debate the pros and cons and reach a consensus, or at least get it out of their merger committee and in front of their full MEC for debate.

We'll see how it all turns out. There is no attempt to cram anything down. If the deal doesn't work either the entire concept of merging is rejected for the time being or we'll go down the traditional route of merging, with no bennies, no joint contract, no contractual improvements for the foreseeable future and probably end up in arbitration.

This deal will get done one way or another, because the alternative is terrible.

Does anyone really believe these (2) airlines are somehow going to be part of the Open Skys international mix in their present form? In 3 or 4 yrs, the major international carriers with their superior a/c, and service will relegate the US carriers to 3rd world also rans.

In other words, would the pilot groups rather build equity stock value starting today or wait 3 or 4 yrs when they will be forced to merge with financials at the absolute bottom? It's a no-brainer.

But then again, I forgot we are dealing with NWA here.

imp: ​

 

[On Your Six]

This deal will get done one way or another, because the alternative is terrible.

Does anyone really believe these (2) airlines are somehow going to be part of the Open Skys international mix in their present form? In 3 or 4 yrs, the major international carriers with their superior a/c, and service will relegate the US carriers to 3rd world also rans.

In other words, would the pilot groups rather build equity stock value starting today or wait 3 or 4 yrs when they will be forced to merge with financials at the absolute bottom? It's a no-brainer.

But then again, I forgot we are dealing with NWA here.

imp: ​

There is some truth to this with regard to US-Europe traffic. Think about how open-skies will impact US airlines on flights across the pond. Ryanair has stated it will start a low-cost airline (separate from its current intra-Europe airline) operating from all of its European bases in 3-4 years. Virgin and BA talk about opening up non-UK originating flights from the Continent to the US. Airfares are likely to fall for economy pax and business-class airfares will see continued pressure from EOS, Silverjet, Privatair, L'Avion and possibly others. The European cash-cow may not provide the high margins it provides today - and that cash flow is used to partially subsidize already competitive US domestic flights. Add $100-120+ oil into the equation and it starts to get messy...

 

[lowecur]

There is some truth to this with regard to US-Europe traffic. .

My crystal ball sees opens sky across the pacific in the next few years. US/Australia just signed an agreement, and this is just the first volley. China will undoubtedly be last to sign on, but the rest of the pacific rim should follow Australia's lead.

imp:​

 

[737 Pylt]

My crystal ball sees opens sky across the pacific in the next few years. US/Australia just signed an agreement, and this is just the first volley. China will undoubtedly be last to sign on, but the rest of the pacific rim should follow Australia's lead.

imp:​

Can you please ask your crystal ball what numbers thrusday's pick six are?

737

 

[On Your Six]

My crystal ball sees opens sky across the pacific in the next few years. US/Australia just signed an agreement, and this is just the first volley. China will undoubtedly be last to sign on, but the rest of the pacific rim should follow Australia's lead.

imp:​

Certainly individual countries will want to negotiate like Australia, Japan and Korea. They have a lot to gain from more access to the US. However, I don't forsee the EU-style cooperation in Asia because they are not a trading block. You won't see ANA 787s operating from Manila or Shanghai to the US any time soon. ANA will encourage its country to open up its skies because it will need to put its 787s somewhere. The problem in Japan is that NRT has no extra capacity for growth (and more access to Haneda is questionable).

I doubt China will open up any time soon because its airlines can't compete with US or other Asian airlines like Singapore or Cathay on service. China won't want the competition from higher-quality airlines. Notice what happened when Singapore tried to buy into China Eastern - it was blocked by Air China/Cathay. Why would it open its doors to unlimited trans-pacific flights when it can't compete effectively unless there are restrictions?

 

[lowecur]

Can you please ask your crystal ball what numbers thrusday's pick six are?

737

No, but I do see you being removed from a plane by Federal Agents and testing positive for intoxication. You will then be deported to your home country of Nicaragua, where you will be imprisoned and raped by 6 tiny men in bandanas.

imp:​

 

[~~~^~~~]

Delta is a winner in open skies, which is why AirFrance opened a couple Heathrow Slots for their partner across the Atlantic.

DAL+NWA= One Hell of an Airline because together they can fund globe spanning growth better than either can do individually. Lowecur, you might have given up on Yankee ingenuity, but we invented this aviation thing and have dominated it since its inception. I would not count US Airlines out nearly as quickly as you have.

Our expenses are in dollars. Our international revenues are in Euros. Conversely their expenses are in Euros and their revenues in dollars.

Open skies - bring it on.

 

[MDPilot]

Delta Says Merger Principles
With Northwest Haven't Been Met
By PAULO PRADA
February 26, 2008 4:44 p.m.
In a sign of growing trouble for a proposed merger deal with Northwest Airlines Corp., top executives of Delta Air Lines Inc. Tuesday afternoon issued an internal memo saying that no "potential transaction meets all our principles."

Summarizing the airline's priorities in any merger, including seniority protection for all its employees and keeping the airline headquartered in Atlanta, the memo said the airline will continue to focus on its "stand-alone plan" until all "these conditions are met."

Signed by Richard Anderson, Delta's chief executive, and Ed Bastian, the airline's president and chief financial officer, the memo follows a recent impasse in discussions between Delta pilots and their counterparts at Northwest. Despite progress in merger talks among the two airlines' executives and financial advisers, people familiar with the situation say leaders of the pilots groups have been unable to find common ground on an agreement that would establish a common seniority list for the pilots of a combined airline.

Without that agreement, those people said, the airlines are reluctant to merge because executives are wary of protracted labor disputes and contract negotiations that have troubled mergers in the airline industry in the past.

Write to Paulo Prada at [email protected]

 

[lowecur]

Lowecur, you might have given up on Yankee ingenuity, but we invented this aviation thing and have dominated it since its inception. I would not count US Airlines out nearly as quickly as you have.

It's not a matter of ingenuity, it's a matter of financial/strategic brain lock. It's highly probable that those MEC moron's directing traffic over a NWA, will again negotiate themselves into a hole. Then and only then will they say....OK....let's do it!...year 2011. By that time, both airlines will be close to the financial junk heap, and any equity upside will be a formidable task. Remember, it's more important to look good than to feel good. I think that's a quote from Dana Stevens.

imp:​

 

[propdog]

NWA wants to go into arbitration?---more news

Updated from 4:31 p.m. EST CHARLOTTE, N.C. -- The proposed merger between Delta(DAL - Cramer's Take - Stockpickr) and Northwest (NWA - Cramer's Take - Stockpickr) faces a potential collapse, sources say, for an unusual reason -- Northwest's pilots want to arbitrate seniority.
Delta pilots oppose arbitration, which was shown in the 2005 merger between US Airways (LCC - Cramer's Take - Stockpickr) and America West to be an unreliable method to protect pilots from severe career disruptions.
In the effort to merge Delta and Northwest, "there is a solution still to be had," said a person familiar with the situation. "The door is still open, but not forever. If Delta passes its time line, it will just move on." The window of opportunity is a couple of weeks, the person said.
Delta executives, in a memo to employees late Tuesday, declared that they haven't been able to put together a satisfactory merger agreement.


That is some more news fresh from the press. I wonder how much of it is true. If it has to go into arbitration, I say scratch the deal...it ain't worth it.

 

[Gunfighter]

It's refreshing to see that Delta management won't sell the pilots down the river just to make some hedge fund manager a few million richer. Maybe it's actually a good management team at Delta. Is that possible in this industry?

 

[NuGuy]

Heyas Propdog,

The fact that the NWA team would rather take arbitration over the current "table offer" deal speaks volumes.

They are WELL aware of the cluster F@#@ the arbitration at USAir was, and in fact, it has been their postion that arbitration is NOT desirable in any, way, shape or form.

But the fact that they would consider that preferable what the DAL guys are offering, PLUS the fact that the DAL guys don't want to get near an arbitrator, tells me that the table position is SOOO lopsided that it wouldn't pass the sniff check.

Don't let the DAL boyos here fool you. The hangups with the integration talk ISN'T about redbook/greenbook...that's just a smokescreen, just like the "leaked" press reports that had the NWA team "demanding" that we staple 3000 of their pilots (absurd on its face).

The truth is that there isn't ANY argument about the top part of the list. Rather, their current table position would cripple the career progression of well over 2000 NWA pilots while they would enjoy almost all of the top positions for well over a decade.

They are in full spin mode trying to justify their ridiculous positions and laying blame while the NWA guys are trying to get the job done.

But don't take my word for it. Call your rep, and get the REAL story.

Personally, let this thing die.

Nu

PS Keep Delta their Delta

 

[clippyrip]

Touche'! Guess that answers that. He didn't see that one coming did he! Kind of walked...no ran into that one!:laugh: Just one more thought. Will you be junior to yourself after the merger if it happens?:laugh:

Two quick things there smarty, just because he flew for NWA(he was Blue Book if you caught that) does not make him an expert on Red Book vs Green Book. Secondly, we've already discussed the SLI a few threads earlier. But I am sure you we're getting to that next. :laugh:

 

[Schwanker]

I wonder how much of it is true.
Call your negotiators and ask them.

If it has to go into arbitration, I say scratch the deal...it ain't worth it.
Bingo. Maybe this will clue you into DAL's absurd position. It was NWA's position to avoid arbitration. Take the clue--it ain't worth it.

Schwanker

 

[michael707767]

The truth is that there isn't ANY argument about the top part of the list. Rather, their current table position would cripple the career progression of well over 2000 NWA pilots while they would enjoy almost all of the top positions for well over a decade.

They are in full spin mode trying to justify their ridiculous positions and laying blame while the NWA guys are trying to get the job done.

I am hearing its just the opposite. NWA is in spin mode, trying to justify walking away from the huge contractual improvements they could get . A relative position merger still favors the NWA pilots. Delta has a much higher percentage of widebodies, so a lot of NWA pilots will end up at widebody seniority even in a straight percentage merger. NWAs retirements are more than offset by the attrition your fleet faces in the next few years...even with the 787s coming in.

Delta does want to avoid arbitration though. I believe our position is sustainable, but we are not going to do this deal unless we are sure it has value for the Delta pilots all the way around.

I do agree with you on one thing. Let this thing die. I am perfectly happy with the career I see in front of me at Delta. Keep what you have, I'll keep what I have.

 

[propdog]

disregard

 

[propdog]

Are the unions still at the negotiating table OR are they done for right now??

 

[propdog]

Heyas Propdog,

The fact that the NWA team would rather take arbitration over the current "table offer" deal speaks volumes.

They are WELL aware of the cluster F@#@ the arbitration at USAir was, and in fact, it has been their postion that arbitration is NOT desirable in any, way, shape or form.

But the fact that they would consider that preferable what the DAL guys are offering, PLUS the fact that the DAL guys don't want to get near an arbitrator, tells me that the table position is SOOO lopsided that it wouldn't pass the sniff check.

Don't let the DAL boyos here fool you. The hangups with the integration talk ISN'T about redbook/greenbook...that's just a smokescreen, just like the "leaked" press reports that had the NWA team "demanding" that we staple 3000 of their pilots (absurd on its face).

The truth is that there isn't ANY argument about the top part of the list. Rather, their current table position would cripple the career progression of well over 2000 NWA pilots while they would enjoy almost all of the top positions for well over a decade.

They are in full spin mode trying to justify their ridiculous positions and laying blame while the NWA guys are trying to get the job done.

But don't take my word for it. Call your rep, and get the REAL story.

Personally, let this thing die.

Nu

PS Keep Delta their Delta

I talked to the rep. Lets help them keep Delta their Delta!!

 

[Superpilot92]

http://www.startribune.com/business/15996522.html

Delta Air Lines CEO Richard Anderson told his employees Tuesday that he has not proceeded with a merger because Delta still doesn't have a deal that meets all of its goals.
Northwest Airlines and Delta have reached agreement on a merger, but executives at the carriers have been waiting for their pilot groups to integrate their seniority lists. It's unclear whether the two union groups can achieve that goal, because some pilots would be winners and others would be losers under virtually any methodology used to merge the lists.
"To date, we have not arrived at a potential transaction that meets all of our principles," Anderson said in a memo that was also signed by Ed Bastian, the airline's president.
Protecting the seniority of Delta employees was one of the five principles cited.
"Rest assured that we will not complete a transaction unless all of these conditions are met," the executives said.
Preserving the Delta name and Atlanta headquarters also are essential to Delta, the executives said. They added that a merger must allow Delta to strengthen its network and accelerate its plans to expand in the international market.
In November, Anderson said that the headquarters must remain in Atlanta. But Minnesota politicians pressed him in recent weeks to consider saving Northwest's headquarters in Eagan. The headquarters would be in Atlanta under the merger documents that the Delta and Northwest boards are poised to approve, according to a person familiar with the transaction.
In his employee memo, Anderson did not name the pilots' conflict or Northwest.
But it appears that he released the memo to reassure Delta employees that he has not deviated from core merger principles and that the airline has a "strong stand-alone plan" if that's needed.
Northwest CEO Doug Steenland said in a Tuesday message that Northwest's leadership is prepared to give "positive" consideration to a "transaction that would provide greater long-term security and growth opportunities for our employees" and create value for Northwest shareholders.
The Delta-Northwest merger is structured as a stock swap.