Delta-Northwest Deal at Risk

[123]

The attractiveness of bases is such a subjective topic that there is no place for it in discussions regarding seniority integration.

Maybe NW/DAL wont be able to broker a deal and you can hook up with United. I am sure that the integration of lists would go much smoother with them.

 

[JOPILOT]

Northwelta Air Lines could offer the top 1200 or so NWA pilots a "don't be a chump take a lump" deal that they could not pass up, much like the DAL senior pilots took... Distribute the rest of the note as unfairly or fairly as DAL did with it's pilots. Afterword I think everyone would be ready for DOH integration, international expansion and retirement of all NWA's sh#tbirds, making way for new equipment while not disrupting the connection/ airlink carriers?

Just an idea, but I just hope I can hold ramper in DTW after the smoke clears from the reaming that is on the way.

 

[General Lee]

The attractiveness of bases is such a subjective topic that there is no place for it in discussions regarding seniority integration.

Maybe NW/DAL wont be able to broker a deal and you can hook up with United. I am sure that the integration of lists would go much smoother with them.

So, if it doesn't matter to you (or the 1000 NWA guys living in warmer places like FLA), then let's fence the bases too. Why not? You don't care...

And, the UAL deal would go the same way. How about you guys and CAL? They have hired a lot more newbies lately than DL. I bet your negotiators smell fresh meat over there too.....riiiight.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

You crack me up. At least it is always sunny in your world. In your case, arrogance is bliss, isn't it?

Tell me where I am wrong here? UPS is parking their 747-100/200s, and even JAL Cargo and NCA are replacing thier 747-200s with -400s. So, let me get this straight, you will be the only ones out there with -200s? Riiight. What will replace them? You also lost your largest cargo contract---DHL. You also bring to the table 90 or so current DC9s. You have no orders for anything other than 787s, which again was delayed. The 787 is supposed to pay more than the A330, so that would be the highest paying plane for the pax side if the 744 goes the cargo route. Can you follow me? No arrogance here, and I would like you to tell me how YOU think your fleet will play out in the next 5 years (without a DL merger).


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[123]

General, for as much experience as you appear to have in the airline business, you must have witnessed base openings and closings, changing of equipment throughout bases, increases and decreases in flying at a particular base to realize that tieing any hopes to a particular base is fruitless.

 

[GogglesPisano]

The attractiveness of bases is such a subjective topic that there is no place for it in discussions regarding seniority integration.

.

You must fly for NWA.

 

[123]

Tell me where I am wrong here? UPS is parking their 747-100/200s, and even JAL Cargo and NCA are replacing thier 747-200s with -400s. So, let me get this straight, you will be the only ones out there with -200s? Riiight. What will replace them? You also lost your largest cargo contract---DHL. You also bring to the table 90 or so current DC9s. You have no orders for anything other than 787s, which again was delayed. The 787 is supposed to pay more than the A330, so that would be the highest paying plane for the pax side if the 744 goes the cargo route. Can you follow me? No arrogance here, and I would like you to tell me how YOU think your fleet will play out in the next 5 years (without a DL merger).


Bye Bye--General Lee

Sounds plausible. Bottom line is that NWA must strive to generate the revenues as predicted in the business plan during bk in order to satisfy lenders. DL has been very forthright in announcing their plans for expansion and growth, in order to meet this demand. Unfortunately, NW has been close-lipped (as usual) about future plans. Bottom line is that you have no more of an idea of the plan than I do.

However, one side of your mouth states that you can't plan expectations due to "possible" retirements of NWA pilots, yet the other side of your mouth is spouting the rapid reduction of NWA aircraft. DL has 777's on order, MD90's are a signature away, etc, etc....NWA 787's don't count because they are not on property and the others are just orders. I know though, it is hard to look at something with a rational mind when looking through those thick Delta is My Home glasses (were you a contributing author to "The South was Right"?)

 

[123]

You must fly for NWA.

Yep, and I am freezing my ___ here in MN and loving it (well, it could be a little warmer)

 

[727RedTails]

General Lee,

Heres the issue for me. Delta has a few planes on order, great. Most of the movement will come from growth at Delta. You guys have a lot of debt due in the future and a lot lower margins. I don't know how often you get thru DTW or MSP but we have very few weather delays and run a very smooth operation in what are basically fortress hubs. What fortress hubs does Delta have now? Great your getting a few 777's to fly to Asia. Those a/c will be just like your 767's and somewhat obsolete in the next ten years with the 787 coming onboard. NWA has been talking to the manufacturers about a 737, DC9 replacement a/c with a geared turbine and much lower operating costs.

The hub in Asia, is not only for USA to Asia pax. A majority are from Japan and Asia and stay in Asia. NWA is able to pick up addtl pax in Narita, Osaka etc. Delta has nothing like this around the world and can't get any kind of agreement like this in Asia.

Current Delta pilots such as yourself benefited from the early outs and the govt pension bailout. There will be very little movement from retirements on your side for a long time. The NWA pilots saved pensions and have a Targeted Distribution but also have many many retirements in the next few years. Most won't stay til 65 because their pension is frozen. Do you really think it's fair to have the junior Delta pilots come onboard above the junior NWA pilots. They would then benefit more from your early outs and then benefit from our upcoming retirements.

Don't get me wrong I think both NWA and Delta would be stronger in the upcoming Worldwide Airline Enviornment as a team rather than separate. Hopefully something fair can be worked out...

 

[jetflier]

Sure, that makes sense. You are also bringing planes to the table that will likely be parked sooner than later, and that includes the 68 larger DC9s. You have no replacement order for those, except E175s for Compass. Your only outstanding order I believe is the 787 order, which is being delayed constantly. None of your hubs are desireable to anyone of our pilots, unless they commute from there, unlike our warmer hubs to the south, which sound like heaven to your commuters. But hey, if you want to keep your current management and go forward, then that is up to your negotiators, who sound like Easties from USAir (if the reports are right). Let's hope for fair and balanced...


Bye Bye--General Lee

General,

We like our hubs thank you very much...

I know ATL is a southern hub. You do mention others, what are they ?

I might be interested...