Not good for the Southwest Poolies....

[Mach 80]

From a SWA pilot forum:

>>>>>Why the apparent anger from a few of the posters on the subject? These guys have been your brother pilots and have paid union dues into YOUR union. If these guys want to commute and sit reserve in OAK, big deal, let them! Not all of these guys have been working for SWA for 35 years and are millionaires either. Some have come to SWA in their late 40's and early/mid 50's after having bounced around thru bankruptcies and stolen pensions. There is as much liklihood of living to age 90 as to 75. Earning $40,000 the first year and then stepping up to $70,000 - $120,000 for a few more years can make a HUGE difference in their retirement and well being. Why wouldn't you want that for a fellow SWA pilot and union member?<<<

Heard only 40 or so have applied, so big deal anyway.

 

[Dane Bramage]

I absolutely do not agree with letting these guys jump the line. Once again, I find myself embarrassed for my company. I expect more than half of these rehires will never fly a full FO month before they conveniently medical out with a nice additional monthly paycheck. We'll see.

 

[vixin]

Exactly Dane. They will get on property and Medical out. Then they can get VERBA/PMA and other benefits as that go fishing or play golf. Heck one of the geezers on the SWAPULL forum was telling other geezers how to collect $1500/month in unemployment. We will see how many on the bottom of the list medical out.

 

[sonny320]

Man...why don't these guys retire and enjoy life. Flying is a job not a life.

 

[Red Baron]

This just get more ridiculous as time goes by. I am totally against this. What a shame it is for them to be put ahead of the poolies. They should get in the back of the line. I don't care if it is only 40 guys, it is not right.

 

[waveflyer]

.........

 

[Tomct]

Sorry to the Poolies...this is totally lame and I can't believe that SWA would do this to their pilot group. Good luck poolies, I hope that you have a descent job right now, it could be a while before you get online. Sorry!

 

[skiandsurf]

As is with most change in the industry these responses are understandable but impulsive and short-sighted. First, the website only mention the date for a deadline to submit an application not an interview date or guarantee of a job. Second, the current state of affairs in the airline industry requires that our response to changes are measured and cleverly calculated. There isn't a single individual that truly knows the effect of age 65 on the rest of the sub-60 workforce. It can be assumed that delays and stagnation will be the flavor of this cycle but I caution everyone to consider that this business is very dynamic and will likely be a lot different in the few years to come. I do not contest the fact that many pilots will get a screwing, but I will suggest that those individuals will most likely have their butts handed to them by another company and not the old farts sticking around another five years. Many are also assuming that most, if not all, of the old guys are going to stick around until 65. I doubt that. Just imagine someone deciding that they'll stick it out for a few more years and then fast forward one year and the scenario looks like this: Day two of a three-day, just starting his/her day, A flight attendant (very gay and militant) tells the Captain that they ain't serving because they looked at the wx and decided that it will be too bumpy only after bitching about how full they are going to be all day, 5 wheelchairs that are boarding as slowly as they eat at Shoney's, +FZDZSNPLTSRA, half of the rampers called in sick, station is down to 1 deice truck with 6 departures withinn an hour of each other, 2.5 hour ground stop to LAS because its BKN150 OVC250 and 6SM, and Hillary just implemented a tax hike that has his/her old ass now working like a Hebrew slave for about 15% less than he was making a year ago. My bet is that would be the last day of his career. Most guys I fly with that are approaching 60 had rather fly their Champ in the afternoon and take their motorhome out on the weekends, not fly and put up with 5 more years of BS. I am not particularly excited about age 65 myself but given this industry I am going to sit back and observe the next year. My guess is in 6 months age 65 will be as relevant as Richard Branson taking over the world. If you're in the pool, just relax and don't worry about the geezers. How many do you think want to commute to OAK, pull gear, and have $hitty vacation and work holidays?

Not all retired pilots were senior for the past 30 years. I would guess that SWA has hired enough guys in their 50s that they would like to return for a few more years. Afterall, SWA is such a great company to work for, I cant imagine anyone not wanting to return. And these senarios that you mention, look more like UAL then SWA. I thought SWA was nothing but LUV.

 

[Dude]

Unfortunately, the above mentioned elements do exist at SWA. It is unevitable, even at LUV. Until you require more than a pulse to get a job at an airline, this scenario is not only possible but commonplace at every airline.

I mispoke earlier, it appears that retirees are not only getting an interview; they will jump in front of every poolie as well. This sucks for poolies but there probably wont be many who REALLY do it. I am interested to see how many guys want to commute, pre-flight a/c in MDW, MHT, or PVD and not get the holidays off. I can't possibly imagine this being attractive to but a few.

As far as the PMA and losing medical scenario, holy crap that would be a disaster. I hope that these men understand the delicate position they put the company and the association in if they do this. Litigation would be a likely result and countless union dues will have to be spent to deal with this needless malicious practice.

p.s. LUV is still a great place to work. The previous post was intended to describe what makes us all crazy and given the grumpiness of maturity it would be difficult for me to tolerate the worst days at an airline.

 

[waveflyer]

How verified is it that they are coming back as a way to set the stage to sue for their old seniority back? It seems logical- and i don't see how they have anything to lose by trying.

I hope the young pilots see this, realize noone's looking out for them and start stepping up to the plate politically. At some point- we have to blame ourselves.

 

[On Your Six]

For those of you treading water in the pool for the foreseeable future: I hear Netjets is hiring. Roughly $60K to start and 100 pilot domiciles - see link:

http://airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/fractional/netjets.html

I wonder where SWA falls for prospective, qualified pilots given the current circumstances and longer upgrade times? 3rd or 4th choice? No disrespect or flame meant - just wonder how this would impact people's application decisions...

 

[Whataburger]

This sux for the poolies, but I dont believe every pilot that has retired will be applying. Reserve, first year pay, commuting, having someone 1/2 their age asking them how the walkaround went will keep them away.
Plus the day they turned 60 started a 5 year clock on their new retirement.
Get/Keep your job during the wait and re-evaluate when our PD gives you the class date. Good luck.

 

[StopNTSing]

I wonder where SWA falls for prospective, qualified pilots given the current circumstances and longer upgrade times? 3rd or 4th choice? No disrespect or flame meant - just wonder how this would impact people's application decisions...

Probably still several places above Netjets. No disrespect or flame meant, either. Do you honestly expect to find an answer to your silly, rhetorical question here?

 

[skiandsurf]

Probably still several places above Netjets. No disrespect or flame meant, either. Do you honestly expect to find an answer to your silly, rhetorical question here?

We (NJs) have a couple of retired SWA guys that are under 63. I wonder if they will stay at NJs or go back to SWA.

I talked to one of them about 6 months ago, he was finishing up IOE, and he said he would have come to NJs years ago if the pay was better. Well the pay is better for newhires. No reserve. No commute. Full benefits from day 1. AND, no retirement age.

 

[pipe]

I can't imagine there will be many geezers who actually end up taking these slots. After so many years of relentless 20-min turns and El Paso overnights, why would someone want to leave the golf course for more pain????????

We'll see how many can really stomach not being in charge, the MUCH smaller paycheck, the crappy schedule, and not having any vacation or sick time. It might be just the thing for some of these a$$holes to see just what they handed the junior guys five more years of.

I'd say that after a few months most of them will be saying "this sucks".

PIPE

 

[SWA GUY]

Guys......

It only says we have to INTERVIEW them, not hire them!

I've got a whole bag of black balls to use.....you might do the same so we can get the poolies on board.

 

[General Lee]

And doing more LBB overnights might just KILL them.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Tanker Clown]

LBB overnights may kill them...but I don't notice any Delta retirees beating down the door to come back. But then again, you can make 12 year 777 FO money by year 3 at SWA. I'd go to SWA for the money alone if I were 60+.

 

[pipe]

Guys......

It only says we have to INTERVIEW them, not hire them!

I've got a whole bag of black balls to use.....you might do the same so we can get the poolies on board.

That is the greatest idea I have heard in quite some time. This wins Post of the Year (it's still early though). If you flew with a guy as Capt who was a douch*bag - the chickens have now come home to roost. Break out the big black ball!

PIPE

 

[TonkaF16]

Give them the same treatment as a new hire interview

While it has been a pleasure to write a rec online or letter for a great guy in hopes to sway PD and get him onboard, a negative online rec will work wonders to keep some of these guys that should have retired years ago from coming back.

Not every old guy on the left is dead weight, some are a lot of fun to fly with, treat the crew excellent, and have a wealth of knowledge to offer. Some are old grumpy, narcisists (sp) that tell me how much cash they have in the bank and then stiff the waitress. For them, I hope my fellow SWA employees will do the right thing and blackball the hell out of them.

Age 65 is NOT GOOD for us FO's or for those in the pool despite glorius celebration of victory on the SWAPA website. Give me a break.

rant complete...

Guys......

It only says we have to INTERVIEW them, not hire them!

I've got a whole bag of black balls to use.....you might do the same so we can get the poolies on board.

 

[ultrarunner]

...and since the signing of the bill, we have had a Team working on the process
involved in the rehiring of our retired Captains who are interested in returning to Southwest...

I have re-read that letter and the quote above from that letter....

...and something just doesn't add up...


What, if any, motivation does the company have to do this. There HAS to be an angle here somewhere on the part of SWA just based on the higher probability of a re-hire going out on medical. It costs millions of bucks to have folks out on medical.

No, something is going on here...

That comment on "doing the right thing"....I call a big TEXAS BS on that...

...do the right thing...give me a break!

SWA wants to give these guys/gals an opportunity to come back for a SPECIFIC REASON. Trust me, it is NOT out of the goodness of their hearts.

The truth will come out....no doubt about it.

 

[Draginass]

Congrats SW pilots. You got what you wanted.

 

[ASADFW7]

As a guy who interviewed twice at SWA to get hired. The first interview teh type was required for interview, the second it wasn't but I had it any way.

Who know what all the legal ramifications are for hiring or not hring these guys back with the class action crap. I say if they want to do the walk around in MDW at sero degrees let them. Yes it is disappointing for the poolies, but they are not employees of SWA yet. These pilots, both men and woman have been. And if there are bad apples, hopefully the company will not hire them back.

Let them come back it will only be a couple classes of pilots. The bigger news is still our slow growth this year.

 

[vetrider]

Haven't seen so many sycophants piping up these days, I guess they figured it is time to go get a hobby.

 

[clippyrip]

That seems odd for SWA airlines to do something like this....it is almost like management realized they are in the airline business.

 

[johnnyV]

I absolutely do not agree with letting these guys jump the line. Once again, I find myself embarrassed for my company. I expect more than half of these rehires will never fly a full FO month before they conveniently medical out with a nice additional monthly paycheck. We'll see.

Exactly! I understand the timing sucks but life is all about decisions. The decision to let these guys jump to the head of line is appalling.

 

[Caveman]

SWA will hire every retiree that reapplies. They will have no real choice. If they don't and then get sued by the applicant how are they going to convince a jury that a guy who two months ago retired from SWA after a successful career is now not a competitive applicant? They'll all get rehired. Guaranteed. SWA will have no other choice.

Besides, where's the LUV for your former comrades? Don't these guys deserve more loyalty from SWA pilots and the company than the poolies? Sorry poolies, nothing personal, but the retirees do have a prior relationship with the company and as a retiree are still part of the family.

If these guys come back they will be junior to everyone currently on property. So how exactly does that hurt anybody already at SWA? Why are you more concerned about relative strangers than somebody who you already have worked side by side with?

I can understand why the poolies would be disappointed, but what else would you really expect SWA to do? All they are doing is taking care of their own first and then inviting new folks into the fold. I understand a poolies frustration, but it's still the right thing for SWA to do.

 

[Papa Woody]

deleted

 

[skiandsurf]

SWA will hire every retiree that reapplies. They will have no real choice. If they don't and then get sued by the applicant how are they going to convince a jury that a guy who two months ago retired from SWA after a successful career is now not a competitive applicant? They'll all get rehired. Guaranteed. SWA will have no other choice.

Agree with everything here.

 

[dojetdriver]

same thing going on over at FDX....over 60 engineers can bid back to the front seats...lots of POed junior guys....the 757 bid has all over 60 guys for the most part...my understanding is the company is now installing diaper changing stations in all 757 bathrooms!!!

But the difference is, the guys at your place and UPS, or anywhere else that has "ropes" or "herpes" NEVER left the property. The SWA guys have.

You get my last PM?