Could Southwest's run of profitability be coming to an end?

[AlbieF15]

Does anyone besides swa/fo really know that he is a SWA FO? It wouldn't be like someone to impersonate on this forum now would it? Every pilot and FA I fly with any more is extremely thankful AND humble!

C'mon bro...I thought he WAS your alter ego!

 

[Big Beer Belly]

Hey, don't group me in with a tool like SWA/FO. I back up my claims with facts, baby! But it is amusing watching the SWA pilots get all crazy when someone actually says they wouldn't want to do their type of flying. You know---the 737 only, multiple leg days, with 25 minute turns, with the CHANCE of going to a hole like LBB or MAF type flying.
Bye Bye--General Lee

:laugh::laugh:

GL... you do crack me up... keep up the good work my friend!

LBB... sorry... (yes, I've been there many moons ago) but on this point the General is correct. In LBB, the locals think Folger's is a delicacy and in Vienna the locals use Folger's to clean their toilets. Two different perspectives I suppose.

All I know is that the coffee in Vienna is exquisite... the people friendly... and the city absolutely gorgeous. The usual crew rest in any midwest city is the same... typical downtown, usual restaurants, usual overpriced hotel/bar... boring beyond belief (sorry, but true). A good crew rest is a descent steak, a flying partner with a good personality/sense of humor, and reasonably priced beer. We've all been there/done that.

Introduce a foreign country, strange (but damn good) beer, more often than not good food (though not always!), and some awesome scenery (still and live) and suddenly an otherwise ordinary crew rest becomes fun... beyond the ordinary (at least in my humble opinion). From Sydney's Opera House to the Great Pyramids of Giza and everything in between we are fortunate as pilots to have the world at our fingertips... and to get paid to see all these sights to boot!

For those of you who have the opportunity to fly internationally, I highly encourage you to do so. The international arena offers a number of unique challenges (terrain, no radar, language, metric conversion, etc...) but if you've made it to the 121 level, it's NOT rocket science.

I'm fortunate to have had the opportunity to visit nearly half the countries on the planet... man there are some really dicked up places out there... but there are many really beautiful places as well. I think a keen understanding of this gas ball in space and its many peoples is enlightening and invaluable. Everyone's mileage varies on this one though I suppose.

A long-winded way of saying that if I stay at another "Holodome" in central Texas or eat another burger from "Chili's"... I think I'm gunna heave! uke:

BBB

 

[General Lee]

:laugh::laugh:

GL... you do crack me up... keep up the good work my friend!

LBB... sorry... (yes, I've been there many moons ago) but on this point the General is correct. In LBB, the locals think Folger's is a delicacy and in Vienna the locals use Folger's to clean their toilets. Two different perspectives I suppose.

All I know is that the coffee in Vienna is exquisite... the people friendly... and the city absolutely gorgeous. The usual crew rest in any midwest city is the same... typical downtown, usual restaurants, usual overpriced hotel/bar... boring beyond belief (sorry, but true). A good crew rest is a descent steak, a flying partner with a good personality/sense of humor, and reasonably priced beer. We've all been there/done that.

Introduce a foreign country, strange (but damn good) beer, more often than not good food (though not always!), and some awesome scenery (still and live) and suddenly an otherwise ordinary crew rest becomes fun... beyond the ordinary (at least in my humble opinion). From Sydney's Opera House to the Great Pyramids of Giza and everything in between we are fortunate as pilots to have the world at our fingertips... and to get paid to see all these sights to boot!

For those of you who have the opportunity to fly internationally, I highly encourage you to do so. The international arena offers a number of unique challenges (terrain, no radar, language, metric conversion, etc...) but if you've made it to the 121 level, it's NOT rocket science.

I'm fortunate to have had the opportunity to visit nearly half the countries on the planet... man there are some really dicked up places out there... but there are many really beautiful places as well. I think a keen understanding of this gas ball in space and its many peoples is enlightening and invaluable. Everyone's mileage varies on this one though I suppose.

A long-winded way of saying that if I stay at another "Holodome" in central Texas or eat another burger from "Chili's"... I think I'm gunna heave! uke:

BBB

Well thanks BBB. I don't dislike SWA by any means, I just personally wouldn't enjoy their type of flying. Some may love it, staying close to home, places that are "familiar." That's great. To some on this board, a layover is just a layover. That is too bad IMO. I like trying different things, and seeing different places. But with their great pay rates, I am sure that they can afford some trips to Europe even with the weak dollar, and they are always welcome on our jumpseats.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[ASADFW7]

I have been at SWA less than two years. In my opinion it doesn't matter who you are when you take a job and start cashing paychecks, you do it for your family and you adjust your standard of living. As a previous CRJ pilot, I was tired of being almost there. Almost being able to buy a house, but knowing I would sell it when I got my next job, or the next base closure. I was tired of being asked when I was going to get a real job. Now that I am at SWA the standard of living is nice, and I suppose it is a real job now, debatable though. However no one else is going to pat me on the back for the years of flying to get to SWA. No one else cares that I bought a house that if I took a 30 percent paycut I would be scrambling to pay for. No one else cares but me.

In this industry when I was at a regional I watched almost every mainline pilot take a paycut. I did not exactly understand the pressure of that because I had never made more than 60K a year to date. Now that SWA pilots may be the next to feel the industry readjustment in pay. Many pilots who have been through it know exactly how that has felt. I did not go through that at ASA but know what it feels like to be almost there. Maybe SWA is almost there to not turning a profit? There are many pilots at SWA who like me are not complete jackasses. Partially yes, complete no.

I understand that a few of my fellow pilots may never have felt that pain of the working your way up, or falling backwards. It may happen, if it does there will be a lot of pain felt but our pilot group and the company in whole. It will not be pilots alone who shoulder the burden.

I like my job, I like the pay. I went after the job long before the pay increases. I go to work though for a paycheck, to support my family and pay my bills. I support my fellow pilots and the industry. In the end though I work in a crapy industry that eats their young. I know this, it sucks but that is the way it is. If SWA stumbles there are thousands of pilots who would like to gain, to get their 30 percent and more back. That is our reality. I am going to work hard to see SWA not stumble. Not to hurt the industry but to protect my job, my company and quality of life. I did the same thing at ASA even when it was a leaky boat.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[whymeworry?]

Good for SW.

For the sake of the survival of our profession, let the playing field be leveled.

This is not a slight against SWA pilot. I respect you guys and gals and I can only wish I were compensated at your level. But we alll need to acknowledge the lack of substantive fare increases has served to subsidize the travel needs of the ever-demanding public.

There is no reason on earth why the public should fly for less than the cost of said seat on any given flight.

SWA mgmt saw this coming long ago so they had plenty of time to prepare. Time for fare to go up AND STAY UP.

 

[Mach 80]

>>>>Introduce a foreign country, ....<<<

I guess someone made him take it down, but anyone know if that excellent video of the AA crew trip and layover in Paris is still on the internet anywhere?

 

[mdf]

Cockiness and naivety are pilot attributes I do not admire. These are found in larger abundance at the aforementioned airlines than most others. I have friends at both these operations who are good, sophisticated, humble people. Unfortunately there are getting to be more and more of the other kind.

Would like to put down your dictionary, and back this up some data?

 

[mdf]

Would like to put down your dictionary, and back this up some data?

Woops!


Would you like to put down your dictionary, and back this up with some data?

 

[YourPilotFriend]

The difference between SWA and the other airlines, is that SWA management will take the pay cut with the pilots.

 

[tico]

SWA may struggle with profitability at some point...But at least if and when it comes and if the company ever have to ask for help from their people, they will know it is not for the reasons that the rest of us have had to take it in the a$$.....That airline has figured out how to run an airline.....When I have large productivity breaks in the terminal I like to position myself where I can watch them at work.......It is an awesome sight......no one runs, no one races around....they just methodically turn a 737 in 15-20 minutes...beacon off to beacon on..... the people that work there are expected to give a good hard days work and they are paid for it.........They are firm and fair and that is all you can ask out of an employer.... if it comes down to a full on blood bath, they will be the last ones standing....I would be proud to serve in that unit and if they would ever hire pilots from AS, I would turn in the left seat tomorrow and go to work there........Face it, they are from top to bottom better at this game then all the rest of us sorry losers put together........

 

[Benhuntn]

Half the countries in the world BBB? How many would that be? How was Giza? Any odors? I have doubts but set me straight. With some answers to these questions.

 

[Big Beer Belly]

Half the countries in the world BBB? How many would that be? How was Giza? Any odors? I have doubts but set me straight. With some answers to these questions.

80+ at at last count Ben... perhaps I'm off by a few... can't wait for you to correct me.

The Great Pyramids of Giza... I'm sure you recall our little Somalia operation down there (Cairo East) under the first GB. Forte Grande, Mena House, Movinpick... ring any bells old fella? I'm sure you recall the local brew... Stella as I recall... cheap, but gave you one hell of a headache. Pasturized with formaldehyde I think... at least it tasted like it.

Odors? Ben... you sniffin' the locals butts? Not sure what you're getting at? I consider Egypt third world and only receive from someone's right hand... or is it left???

Yes, the pyramids had a definite stench of urine. I was surprised... but not really... that they would drill support posts into the pyramid walls to secure the light stanchions... also disappointed to see the graffiti on the walls. Notwithstanding those comments, I was still in awe at the grandiosity of those structures. I'd really like to know how they built them. It's on my list of things to ask the Big Guy when I croak. Did get my dog tags gold plated there... have 'em somewhere... want to see them too?


BBB

 

[Hose A. Jiminez]

Stella brings back memories of living in Brussels. Movinpick Geneve right on the lake was one of my favorites. All good times. Not enough to go back to night cargo, in my opinion, but good times none the less. To each his own I guess.

 

[LearLove]

SWA may struggle with profitability at some point...But at least if and when it comes and if the company ever have to ask for help from their people, they will know it is not for the reasons that the rest of us have had to take it in the a$$.....That airline has figured out how to run an airline.....When I have large productivity breaks in the terminal I like to position myself where I can watch them at work.......It is an awesome sight......no one runs, no one races around....they just methodically turn a 737 in 15-20 minutes...beacon off to beacon on..... the people that work there are expected to give a good hard days work and they are paid for it.........They are firm and fair and that is all you can ask out of an employer.... if it comes down to a full on blood bath, they will be the last ones standing....I would be proud to serve in that unit and if they would ever hire pilots from AS, I would turn in the left seat tomorrow and go to work there........Face it, they are from top to bottom better at this game then all the rest of us sorry losers put together........

"......no one runs, no one races around...."

are you kidding??? have you seen the way you guys taxi??? or yet burn the crap out of your brakes to make some short turn off the runway???

 

[Benhuntn]

Last, I counted 80 is not half of the countries in the world. Visiting third world countries is not high on my list anymore. Been there and done that. Egypt in the summer is one of the most odifirous (sp) countries in the world. Not a turn on. The camel piss at the pyramids is strong. Imagine the crowd at the Washington monument if the smells were the same. I find US hotels to be just fine and I prefer eating food inspected by the USDA not killed on the road and found dead. It is good that international is for you. It fills the gap left by me and my friends at SWA.

 

[Kugelblitz]

Recently I was commuting home on a SW flight and I mentioned that my airline CAL was going with the electronic flight bag and wondered if SW was going to do the same. He said that it was looked at but they couldn't get it to work on their laptops that they currently use.

I pointed out that we are at or near the point where the paper JEP's are going to be more expensive than the electronic stuff.

He just glared at me, and then he said something along the line of 'that can't be true, our company has already looked at it.'

I really wanted to hand the guy a napkin to wipe the orange stain off his lips. I have found over the years with some friends of mine who are flying at SW that it is better not to even suggest that they could do something wrong or if you do, watch out!!

Don't you know, we are all jealous.

 

[bugchaser]

they just methodically turn a 737 in 15-20 minutes...beacon off to beacon on.....

Been a while since I have seen that one!!

 

[SWA GUY]

"......no one runs, no one races around...."

are you kidding??? have you seen the way you guys taxi??? or yet burn the crap out of your brakes to make some short turn off the runway???

Lear Love,

I think the, " I hate my place of employment AND SWA" thread is located somewhere else....

 

[firstthird]

Recently I was commuting home on a SW flight and I mentioned that my airline CAL was going with the electronic flight bag and wondered if SW was going to do the same. He said that it was looked at but they couldn't get it to work on their laptops that they currently use.

I pointed out that we are at or near the point where the paper JEP's are going to be more expensive than the electronic stuff.
...
Don't you know, we are all jealous.

You must be a joy to fly with. You are basically poking the pilots who are giving you a ride home in the chest and saying, "well, your airline must be stupid." I'm not surprised the Captain didn't react all that well.

Although, pilots at SWA are plenty frustrated with the glacially slow pace of technology adaptation around here sometimes. Management was promising the electronic flight bag when I started 4 years ago and apparently 2 years before that. I think you are correct that the cost will invert soon if it hasn't already.

Apparently Gary Kelly won't buy off on anything if it can't be proven to save money, like now, not 5 years from now. Presumably the current upfront costs of equipping 500+ airplanes with computers swamps the subscription savings for not having to get 5000+ annual jepp paper subscriptions.

But frankly, we are overdue on getting the autothrottles connected and VNAV turned on. We keep getting more complicated RNAV departures and arrivals with the below, above, below altitudes on there. those can be flown w/o VNAV but they weren't really designed to be and people make mistakes, or so I've been told. joke.

 

[jke406]

I pointed out that we are at or near the point where the paper JEP's are going to be more expensive than the electronic stuff.

If I was the captain, I would have said, "Yeah, if we got paid what you guys get paid, SWA could have afforded EFBs years ago."