CFII Before CFI ?

[Yodafly]

Can you get your CFII before your CFI and where did you find that info

 

[AC560]

Yes see part 61. You could get your MEII first if you wanted, nothing has to be first.

 

[Yodafly]

I could not find anything that would not allow someone to do this but i am not sure you could find an examiner to do it

 

[AC560]

I could not find anything that would not allow someone to do this but i am not sure you could find an examiner to do it

Regulations tend to say what you can't do, not what you can. Show me where it says you can't, part 61 is clear on what the requirements are for each ride. In regards to the DPE, maybe so but the FAA will give you a free checkride and most FSDO's require your initial to be with them anyways.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

May people get their CFI-I first. It may be done by the FSDO or a DPE. It is just that if this is an initial CFI issuance, then most FSDO's require that ride to be done with an inspector and not a DPE. However, if the FSDO can not schedule the ride fairly soon for whatever reason, then they may allow you to go to a DPE authorized for initial flight instructor issuances.

 

[xkuzme1]

...

I got my II first, I second, MEI last.

I have a good friend who got his MEI, II, then I. I actually think he got his II in an ME ac.

Anything is possable.

 

[T-prop]

Got my CFII first then CFI a week later.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Did my CFII and then my CFI.

Many CFI programs seem to work this way.

 

[airplane wizard]

Seems like it would make things a little easier because the examiner is pretending to be a private pilot not a student pilot like on the CFI checkride. Get your cfii first with the FAA and do the cfi as an addon with a dpe.

 

[nosehair]

Seems like it would make things a little easier because the examiner is pretending to be a private pilot not a student pilot like on the CFI checkride. Get your cfii first with the FAA and do the cfi as an addon with a dpe.

...and this is the mindset that makes it wrong. It would be ok if the cfi-airplane add-on was just like the all-day affair with the faa, but it's not, and so we end up with a bunch of double-eye and emmy-eye wizards, but no airplane wizards....

 

[Daytonaflyer]

I did my CFII first, and CFI second. It made the initial checkride shorter because I didn't have to do all the complex a/c work until I did my CFI ride. It helps since the instructor initial ride is so long and tedious.

I would recommend doing your CFI first, however, because after having just my CFII, I could not find a flight school to hire me. If I had done my CFI first, I could have been working as a flight instructor while I trained for my CFII checkride.

 

[NW_Pilot]

I am ordering my Videos for my CFI written tests on monday gonna study them on my next trans Atlantic flight take my FOI and CFI on my return. I know a lot of people that did their MEI first.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

I did my CFII first, and CFI second. It made the initial checkride shorter because I didn't have to do all the complex a/c work until I did my CFI ride. It helps since the instructor initial ride is so long and tedious.

I would recommend doing your CFI first, however, because after having just my CFII, I could not find a flight school to hire me. If I had done my CFI first, I could have been working as a flight instructor while I trained for my CFII checkride.

It seems that very few on this Board really understand that there is no such thing as a CFI (only) ride. There is a CFI-Airplane Single Engine ride which is what I think you are talking about, or there is a CFI-Airplane Multiengine ride, but no just plain CFI ride. There are actually 7 possible CFI rides (excluding sport CFI) and any one of them can be taken as an initial ride, most often with the FSDO inspector. Then there are the Add-ons that can be taken with the designees. The designees are really not any easier from what I know of this, but they are more "customer service oriented." What I mean by that is they are available on weedends, evenings and other odd hours that the FSDO is not usually be apt to accomodate. Plus if a designee is used there will be no airworthiness inspector going over your 25-year old airplane (and logs) with a fine tooth comb looking for something or even anything that is irregular such as maybe a hard to read compass correction card or a 5-year old log book entry that was not done correctly. While the designees will review the airworthiness of the airplane they just doesn't have the airworthiness experteese as such an inspector would have. All total, the designees are usually considered to be a better experience, except for their FEE.

 

[Daytonaflyer]

Ugh, I bet you're fun to fly with.

 

[Ray Finkle]

Using the term "CFI" for probably 99% of the people means Single Engine Land. Its the spirit of the term that implies this as no one walks around saying "Hi Im C-F-I-A-S-E-L!" That's a lot of vowels and constanents!! LOL!

No disrespect intended here, just saying that most of us are CFIASEL right out of the gate and its just too much verbage to say all that when everyone knows what you mean. If I walked up to the average pilot and said Im a CFII, theyd know I was a CFI as well.

Traditionally, peeps go CFI, CFII then MEII. But if you want to be different and get a CFII first, no big deal. Good point though you wont be able to teach anything but Instruments.

 

[nosehair]

No disrespect intended here, just saying that most of us are CFIASEL right out of the gate and its just too much verbage to say all that when everyone knows what you mean. If I walked up to the average pilot and said Im a CFII, theyd know I was a CFI as well.

You know that, and I know that, and probably more than 50%, which would be a majority, of certified instructors know that, but there are a lot that don't, and a lot more Privates working on their Commercial, who intend to be flight instructors, who don't know that.

The question comes up a lot in the training world because of the "normal flow" of training from single to instrument to multi. Not only does it follow a logical training flow from simple to complex, but it is more economical.

Good training philosophy would dictate a more logical flow from simple to complex, so it is reasonable for the average person to assume that the CFI - Airplane Single Engine would come first and foremost.

The only exception to that would be a person who is never going to get into a single-engine airplane. There are some. If you're only going to fly/instruct multi engine, then it would be ok. But that's not the normal case, and 99% of the new flight instructors are going to be teaching primary pre-solo students how to handle a single engine P-factor machine. It yaws to the left in a climb and yaws to the right in a glide. Good glide (pitch) control and anti-yaw from P-Factor (rudder) control is essential in teaching primary. The basics of aircraft control. These don't exist in multi engine flying. The emphasis is on advaced procedures and techniques, not fundamentals, which is tested on the CFI-Ase, and experience is gained doing CFI-Ase.

As another point to consider, to those who do the CFII first, you might want to consider the way this FAR reads: 61.195 Flight Instructor Limitations and Qualifications.
(b) Aircraft Ratings. A flight instructor may not conduct flight training in any aircraft for which the flight instructor does not hold:
(1) A pilot certificate and flight instructor certificate with the applicable category and class rating.

In other words, a CFI-Ase if the instrument training is being conducted in a single engine airplane in flight.

A CFI - IA only can only teach instruments in a simulator. He/She cannot conduct any flight training in an aircraft.

I know it is being done - and gets blessed by DE's and the FAA, because it used to be that way. That regulation above did not exist until relatively recently, and some of those old dogs just cannot get the change.

But anybody can read the reg and see what it means.

 

[Ray Finkle]

My only point is that physicall saying everytime "Im a CFIASEL" is conversationally exhaustive and sounds, for lack of a better word, ghey. I hear what you are saying, but Ive never come across any questions when I said Im a CFI (when thats all I was) other than am I a CFII or MEI. Now I say Im a CFII and no one questions it. It's assumed, right or wrong, that Im CFI as well and ASEL. I think its an arguement that can be argued "technically" that if you are a CFI, you should state the ASEL. But, in the normal course of conversation its reasonable to expect 99% of the time that Im ASEL. Unless I am standing on the dock of a seaplane base and telling everyone Im a CFI...then I think its obvious there that I would be CFIASES!

Cheers!

 

[Ray Finkle]

Oops! Double posted!

 

[celloman]

So I got my CFII first with an in house examiner at a 141 school. Then my CFI with a DPE. The school had some very valid reasons why they chose to do it in this order.

1. You get time to sit in the right seat in a non complex airplane with normal landings. Adjusting to the feeling.

2. Once you have the CFII the time required in the complex airplane is less. Costing the student less.

3. The check ride with the DPE was a non event, at that point it was just an add on. I am not saying the initial with the in house examiner was easy.... My oral was 6 hours long.

I got my CFII just prior to 9-11 and was working on my CFI at the time. If I had my choice I would have done with CFI first. Like was said before.... Its hard to get a job with just a CFII....

Oh and the school I went to is now CLOSED.....

 

[Daytonaflyer]

Damn, I'm glad I don't flight instruct anymore. Some people need to mellow out. Nobody whines about minor details like this after about 6 months of airline flying.
CFI, CFIASEL, CFII...who cares. Quit being such know-it-alls.