Netjets - The final stop?

[Wankel7]

From everything that the new contract has to offer it sure seems like it is a great place to hang your hat.

I always figured I would end up at an airline and retire from there after many many years of service. But now the picture is different.

The quality of life that fractional flying can offer is outstanding. Especially, the QOL at Netjets. Great people, great flying, great compensation package, and retirement. With a strong union that delivers for the pilots and the company.

I think I would enjoy airline flying after a bunch a years afforded me the quality of life to enjoy the sacrifice. But I guess I'm greedy because Netjets can offer that to you now.

Just wondering how many others here are under 30 and thinking the same thing?

 

[bluepost]

This is a hot topic right now. I have friends trying to make the same decision. I did not get into this industry to throw bags, load catering and check up on ground transportation. I came to Execjet/Netjets to get some pic jet time to get to the majors. Then came 911.

Now I still think for young guys SWA and definitely FED EX or UPS offers a better career opportunity, outside that I think it is a toss up. I don't see any majors with a 5 yr upgrade with the new 65 rule, and there will be mergers happening. USAIR trying to buy Delta last year, it doesn't get any more screwed up then that.

Worst case you will have an awesome career at NJA. In six years you will be making 120k-150k depending on how much you want to work in todays money. Not sure where else you can do that except for FedEX or UPS.

Stability? Anything can and probably will happen, but right now NJA is as stable as FedEx or UPS and more then SWA or any of the others in my opinion. Surely that will change, but that is where the cards fall now. I believe in the product here and feel that it will continue to grow. I think we are in the same postion as FEDEX was in the 80s....the market is under tapped and is growing every year. Will NJA still be at the top in 20 years? Nobody knows.

 

[fly4funcrj]

I'm under 30, flew at the regionals for about 6 years. Never had the "good" life at a major.. After being furloughed 3 times, and seeing guys with 20+ years get furloughed at the majors, it made me rethink my path to retirement.

I came to netjets looking for job security, good benefits, a good wage, and a great QOL. Netjets offers all of that and then some.

It ain't for everyone, but tossing bags is a very very very minor inconvenience. The pro's outweigh the cons 10 fold.

 

[bluepost]

I might add that any young ones could at the very least be gaining seniority and a 30k type rating at NJA while they wait for the airline industry to shake out. I would NOT be hanging out at a regional waiting for that to happen. Worst case you stay at NJA until FedEX or UPS calls.

I don't see the regional QOL or pay going anywhere. Just as my 150k a year is not the 225k at SWA/Fedex/UPS, 100k at a regional is not 150k.

 

[av8tor4239]

I just turned 30...

I just finished initial training at Netjets....

I spent 6 years at the regionals with 1 furlough...

I have very high level contacts at FedEx...

For me... I am just starting a family and I am happy to be at a company where I CAN hang my hat...not to mention a company that pays for all my medical bills! I am lucky to NOT have to be a company where you get furloughed seasonaly (gemini, polar, atlas), contracts take 5+ years to negotiate(ASA), or in fear of a major merger (Delta, United, etc.)

FedEx pays well, but people forget they type of flying they do... Back side is not all fun and games! I know from watching my father do it for 30+ years.... when you are 50 you will look like your are 90. Remember you dont get hired as a widebody captain....

Not to mention FedEx is not hiring right now! I remember pre 9/11 FedEx was in the process of making their newhires sign training contracts because guys were leaving in the middle of training to go to DELTA UNITED, etc..... hummmm

 

[Deadalus]

We(US Airways) lost one of our head training guys to a fractional. In a brown bag lunch with the CEO he mentioned it was a sign of the times. Here we are a major airline and a fractional buys away an employee. I know I'm looking at my options. 13 days off/mo and $80K a year sitting on reserve for the next ten years is not going to keep me around this place.

 

[Willy21]

For me... I am just starting a family and I am happy to be at a company where I CAN hang my hat...

When did we gets hats at NJA?

 

[OPECJet]

I just made that decision. Got awarded the upgrade at my regional the day after I interviewed at NJA. When the offer came it was an easy choice.

I would have love to have flown a Boeing or Airbus, but I put my family ahead of that desire and pursued NJA instead. I don't see myself regretting the decision either!

 

[flywest]

I just made that decision. Got awarded the upgrade at my regional the day after I interviewed at NJA. When the offer came it was an easy choice.

I would have love to have flown a Boeing or Airbus, but I put my family ahead of that desire and pursued NJA instead. I don't see myself regretting the decision either!

Props for putting your family first and making the best decision for you and yours. Welcome aboard! Look forward to meeting you out on the line.

 

[FLYLOW22]

We(US Airways) lost one of our head training guys to a fractional. In a brown bag lunch with the CEO he mentioned it was a sign of the times. Here we are a major airline and a fractional buys away an employee. I know I'm looking at my options. 13 days off/mo and $80K a year sitting on reserve for the next ten years is not going to keep me around this place.

JG is doing a great job at NetJets.

I, for one, am excited to have him follow me over here from US to NJ.

 

[kman]

I'm 27 and been here about 2.5 years and am not sure if this is the place to hang my hat yet.

I really wish there was a better schd for the senior guys. At age 40 I would have 13 yrs of seniority and need still be on the 7n7. Seniority of a 13 yr guy and 20 year guy is the same, besides a/c and vacation the best schd you will fly will be 7n7. And right now Im still about 1-2 years away from upgrading.

If there was a premium schd lets say 5 on 7 off for the top 5 percent I would stay in a heartbeat.
If the right major calls, I think I will leave and take my shot. The flexibility (dropping, trading, picking up), possibility of a great schd (18 to 21 days off a month), workload that is 3 to 4 times less than what I m and doing now, will convince me to leave.

Don’t take me wrong guys this is a great job, but I'm not sure it’s the place for me. I have 35 plus years to give, I want great QOL, netjets just doesn't offer enough yet for me to want to put in 20 years. If income all being the same 20 years at almost any major (assuming I don't get laid off) will provide me with ability to control my schedule with up to 6 days off more a month than nja.

It may take me 20 years to get to where I have 18 plus days off, day trips if I like, dropping my 2 of my 4 four 3 day trips so I only work 6 days the entire month, but if i plan financially , and be lucky enough not to be furloughed. after 20 years at I could reduce my schd for less income and be happy flying only a couple days a month. I know this may all be a pipe dream, but I haven't lost all my hope just yet.

Right now I rather be a 20 yr captain a the right major than a 20 year captain at nja.

 

[CA1900]

We(US Airways) lost one of our head training guys to a fractional.

A good guy, too. I finally met him in person a few weeks ago, and I'm glad we have him -- seems like he'll do good things here.

 

[cush]

At age 40 I would have 13 yrs of seniority and need still be on the 7n7.

Well that's me!! Speaking from your future(or not), life is very good. Hard to argue with 4 weeks vacation on the 7/7 schedule. (Now that being said, if they offer more, I'll be the first in line!!) What I can say is..I know I would not trade my seniority for any equal at ANY airline. Having the ability to know your schedule a year in advance is priceless! But to each his own. And FWIW, I passed on a major airline offer in 1999 and it was the best decision I've ever made! I would have spent 7 years on furlough!!

 

[JustInfo]

I know a lot of guys that have been at a major for 13 years, 8 of which were on furlough. They work a lot more days per month than I do.

7n7 with 4 wks vacation averages 13.8 days/month.

 

[CA1900]

Not to mention the ability to move wherever you want, and still not have to commute on your own time.

Right now I live in Florida. Next year, maybe I'd like to move to Oregon? Or maybe back to New England? I have lots of choices of places to work out of; much more than any airline.

Unless you live at your airline domicile, and plan to do so for the rest of your career, consider how much of your personal time your commute may consume. (I commuted for years thanks to CommutAir closing so many bases; it was a real pain in the ass.)

Not to say you might still like life better at an airline, but a 5-day airline trip with an early report, late release, and a commute on each end, really isn't much different than one of our 7/7 tours, except we're getting paid/credited for our travel days. Just food for thought.

 

[NJA bound]

After 5 yrs a 3 week vacation every 4 months

After 10 yrs a 3 week vacation every 3 months

I think we also still get 12 sick days a year, not sure if that changed with the new contract though.

 

[BengalsFan]

Hey guys... let people leave who want to... that leaves more room for those of us who plan on Netjets as our future! ;0)

 

[Willy21]

• (assuming I don't get laid off)
  [*]be lucky enough not to be furloughed.

This is the the big IF.

 

[CA1900]

I think we also still get 12 sick days a year, not sure if that changed with the new contract though.

You might want to go ahead and read that new contract you (I assume) voted on; it's kind of important.

Briefly, yes, we still accrue one day a month. Section 10 has the details.

 

[NJA bound]

You might want to go ahead and read that new contract you (I assume) voted on; it's kind of important.

Briefly, yes, we still accrue one day a month. Section 10 has the details.

All of those new acranyms PBS PBA ABC, IBB confused me, I'm going to have to wait for the cliff notes version.

 

[wms]

I'm 27 and been here about 2.5 years and am not sure if this is the place to hang my hat yet.

I really wish there was a better schd for the senior guys. At age 40 I would have 13 yrs of seniority and need still be on the 7n7. Seniority of a 13 yr guy and 20 year guy is the same, besides a/c and vacation the best schd you will fly will be 7n7. And right now Im still about 1-2 years away from upgrading.

If there was a premium schd lets say 5 on 7 off for the top 5 percent I would stay in a heartbeat.
If the right major calls, I think I will leave and take my shot. The flexibility (dropping, trading, picking up), possibility of a great schd (18 to 21 days off a month), workload that is 3 to 4 times less than what I m and doing now, will convince me to leave.

Don’t take me wrong guys this is a great job, but I'm not sure it’s the place for me. I have 35 plus years to give, I want great QOL, netjets just doesn't offer enough yet for me to want to put in 20 years. If income all being the same 20 years at almost any major (assuming I don't get laid off) will provide me with ability to control my schedule with up to 6 days off more a month than nja.

It may take me 20 years to get to where I have 18 plus days off, day trips if I like, dropping my 2 of my 4 four 3 day trips so I only work 6 days the entire month, but if i plan financially , and be lucky enough not to be furloughed. after 20 years at I could reduce my schd for less income and be happy flying only a couple days a month. I know this may all be a pipe dream, but I haven't lost all my hope just yet.

Right now I rather be a 20 yr captain a the right major than a 20 year captain at nja.

Check what's been happening at the airlines. I'm senior and only hold commutable 4-days. But then I get integrated and am scheduled 4-on, 1-off, 3-on, 1-off, 4-on, not commutable. On reserve or relief, five or six on-one off over a stretch of time is common. I'd gladly work seven day stretches in exchange for 26 weeks off per year plus vacation. The only problem is with that much time at home my wife might get tired of me.

 

[imacdog]

One thing I've noticed coming to NJA from a regional airline is that a much higher percentage of guys here actually still enjoy flying, versus the airline where many people saw it as nothing more than a job where they might eventually get decent pay and a good schedule. While fractional/charter/corporate flying isn't for everyone, those who enjoy this type of flying could certainly make a career out of NetJets. If you come here, be prepared for the worst part of the job (being a professional airline passenger). That part kind of sucks.

 

[NJA bound]

"professional airline passenger" that's funny


It is nice seeing new airports everyday, keeps it fun and interesting.

 

[DO-82 driver]

You might want to go ahead and read that new contract you (I assume) voted on; it's kind of important.

Briefly, yes, we still accrue one day a month. Section 10 has the details.

Next IBB there will be only 2 sections.....

SEction13 and Section 27. The entire contract will be placed in these 2 sections to ensure everyone reads the entire contract.

 

[RJ Bum]

For me I'm happier than a pig in slop right now. My only regret is that I didn't accept the job with NetJets years ago when I had the opportunity. (I was drowning in a pool with a major at the time and then flushed after 9/11)

I am 31 and have no interest on moving on. This is my 4th airline with a strike and a furlough under my belt.

I agree with a previous post that one thing that needs to be addressed is having a better schedule to look forward to with senority, but right now you just can't beat the IMEDIATE QOL the NetJets has to offer. The benefits and not commuting sealed it for me. While starting a family and not having to up root them every few years is a huge benefit that is sometimes over looked. Sure a 20 year Capt at FEDEX has better QOL. But the 19 before that probably wasn't pretty. How many times did he have to move to a different base to get that QOL? How many different times weighing out taking the hit in QOL for more pay in a different aircraft, or as a Capt?

Sure we work harder than the typical major, but we are rewarded with having good QOL early in our career and for a much longer time. The fact that this market is just being tapped, and we are by far dominating that market, the sky is the limit here. Ask any major airline guy if he/she recalls a time when the company offered to renogotiate the contract with a major raise and better QOL issues before the current contract is over all at the same time of making record profits. It just doesn't happen. Make no mistake, the company bought us cheap and the company as well as us will be reaping the benefits in the near future.

 

[RJ Bum]

One thing I've noticed coming to NJA from a regional airline is that a much higher percentage of guys here actually still enjoy flying, versus the airline where many people saw it as nothing more than a job where they might eventually get decent pay and a good schedule. While fractional/charter/corporate flying isn't for everyone, those who enjoy this type of flying could certainly make a career out of NetJets. If you come here, be prepared for the worst part of the job (being a professional airline passenger). That part kind of sucks.

+100000000

Coming to NJA made me remember that there was much more to flying than in and out of ATL and CVG.

 

[Seat 0A]

I know a lot of guys that have been at a major for 13 years, 8 of which were on furlough. They work a lot more days per month than I do.

7n7 with 4 wks vacation averages 13.8 days/month.

I agree. However, there is more to the story.....

What so many fail to do is make an apples to apples comparison (to the extent possible) when comparing NJA to a Major.

To do this you must define days "worked". If you were at the Majors would you do any commuting or be doing ANY traveling while not on duty? I feel you have to compare days away from home/family, and also any uncompensated hours during a duty day.

This year at NJA I was:

On duty 154 days = 12.83 days/month

Flew the line 133 days (after subtracting 1 week for company and 2 weeks for FlightSafety) = 11.08 days/month

I could have taken one more tour off with personal days which would leave:
147 duty days = 12.25 days/month
or 126 line flying days = 10.05 days/month

At 10 years there will be another week of vacation in these figures.

Again, if you compare days away from home it is a much more appropriate comparison with the Majors.

I didn't volunteer for any extra days. Service year 6/7. Had gross wages over $122,000 (29% over base) not counting bonus payout. Had this year been at the new IBB wages this would have been a bit over $140,000. Add another $6-7k tax-free per-diem if you want, plus other extras.

Never had to "work" too hard loading bags. Line guys do the lifting. Actually there are not always that many bags, sometimes just briefcases or overnight bags. Calling ahead for ground transportation is no big deal and frankly doesn't happen all that often. Catering also not a big deal, in fact it is often left behind which means many $50 bottles of wine, etc. for the crew! (exceeds our normal stock list and cannot remain on aircraft).

All travel done on duty, with a ticket.

Get home after midnight pays me around $1800 and includes time recovery on front of next tour. Home after Noon and take the whole first day off next tour.

Summary: Nearly $150,000 compensation for a 7 year pilot, 10-13 days per month away from home, decent food not obtained from the airport food court, a minimum of 10 hours at the hotel, Hilton-quality hotels, full health/vision/dental, good QOL.

So once you finally get past the Boeing or Airbus fix and start to make a fair comparison, I feel this is light years ahead. I wouldn't go back to 121 even if I was in my 20's. Couldn't drag my family through that crap.

 

[hopalong]

Coming to NJA was the best decision I have ever made. The quality of life is awesome. I am thirty something and wish I did it years ago, so that I'd be captain now. But now w/ the new contract life is sweet even as an FO.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

but right now you just can't beat the IMEDIATE QOL the NetJets has to offer.

I'll take that bet...

There are part 91 operators with significantly better QOL. But I have to hand it to you guys on the healthcare and retirement. Just outstanding. I'm very jealous.

 

[kman]

Check what's been happening at the airlines. I'm senior and only hold commutable 4-days. But then I get integrated and am scheduled 4-on, 1-off, 3-on, 1-off, 4-on, not commutable. On reserve or relief, five or six on-one off over a stretch of time is common. I'd gladly work seven day stretches in exchange for 26 weeks off per year plus vacation. The only problem is with that much time at home my wife might get tired of me.

No offense but I have friends at SWA, FEDEX, DeLTA that have 18-22 days off a month that drop down to 6-9 days a month because they can afford too. Where do you work at?

I would only leave this job for a few select carriers and it still would be a hard choice. If I were to stay i would hope we could work on getting the senior guys at least one more week of vacation or a very senior 5-6 on 7-8 schd.

For the right carrier I would move to my base and stay there for the rest of my career. I still believe having the option of days trips, swapping, trading, dropping, knowing what ur doing trip wise, and 18-21 days off a month would outweigh the 7n7 by far down the road. With that being said I believe my QOL on and off the road could be greater than what NJA has to offer. I know the risks, but I guess I refuse to grow up and lose hope that I could have my cake and eat it too.