Netjets - The final stop?

[gunfyter]

I'll take that bet...

There are part 91 operators with significantly better QOL. But I have to hand it to you guys on the healthcare and retirement. Just outstanding. I'm very jealous.

There are but you usually have to know somebody to get in. And hopefully they never close the flight department

 

[FurloughedAgain]

And hopefully they never close the flight department

You've been eavesdropping on my bedtime prayers.

That's the one thing that has me even considering applying to NetJets right now. I think there is a much better chance that you guys will be here 25+ years from now, then my current department.

And right about the time I start to put pen to paper on the application, my son comes up and pulls on my pantleg to play with him. I just can't be gone 2 weeks a month. Would break my heart.

 

[kman]

I agree. However, there is more to the story.....

What so many fail to do is make an apples to apples comparison (to the extent possible) when comparing NJA to a Major.

To do this you must define days "worked". If you were at the Majors would you do any commuting or be doing ANY traveling while not on duty? I feel you have to compare days away from home/family.

This year at NJA I was:

On duty 154 days = 12.83 days/month

Flew the line 133 days (after subtracting 1 week for company and 2 weeks for FlightSafety) = 11.08 days/month

I could have taken one more tour off with personal days which would leave:
147 duty days = 12.25 days/month
or 126 line flying days = 10.05 days/month

At 10 years there will be another week of vacation in these figures.

Again, if you compare days away from home it is a much more appropriate comparison with the Majors.

I didn't volunteer for any extra days. Service year 6/7. Had gross wages over $122,000 (29% over base) not counting bonus payout. Had this year been at the new IBB wages this would have been a bit over $140,000. Add another $6-7k tax-free per-diem if you want, plus other extras.

Never had to "work" too hard loading bags. Line guys do the lifting. Actually there are not always that many bags, sometimes just briefcases or overnight bags. Calling ahead for ground transportation is no big deal and frankly doesn't happen all that often. Catering also not a big deal, in fact it is often left behind which means many $50 bottles of wine, etc. for the crew! (exceeds our normal stock list and cannot remain on aircraft).

All travel done on duty, with a ticket.

Get home after midnight pays me around $1800 and includes time recovery on front of next tour. Home after Noon and take the whole first day off next tour.

Summary: Nearly $150,000 compensation for a 7 year pilot, 10-13 days per month away from home, decent food not obtained from the airport food court, full health/vision/dental, good QOL.

So once you finally get past the Boeing or Airbus fix and start to make a fair comparison, I feel this is light years ahead. I wouldn't go back to 121 even if I was in my 20's. Couldn't drag my family through that crap.

I really don't give a crap about boeing or airbus, I do hate Cessna cockpits though. Its all about QOL on and OFF the road, Flexiblity of scheduling and time off.

Like I said before, I'm willing to move to my base, so no commuting for me. Even If I did commute, during my my airline career, I only commuted a handful of times the day b4 and the commuting policy took care of the rest( usually two flights at any decent airline). The last two years at the airline I never left my house more than 4 hours b4 my sign in time commuting to ORD. Usually after a couple of years yu can hold a line that start late in the pm and returns early on the am the last day.

There is noway u can subtract 3 weeks for comp, and a/c rec. Its still duty away from home. It may seem like a vacation, but its not. Why do you guys think flight safety doesn't count?

You really can't count sick or personal days.

Money isn't my primary concern, but the opportunity is still greater at the majors. That being said I gladly earn 120k to work 9 days a month compared to working 15 days a month for 160k.

A SWA friend of my Lives is his hometown, averages 19.7 days off a month and with vacation it drops down 22 days off a month. He can do day trips for a couple of months, longer coast to coast stuff or just drop most of his schd, and fly 3 days for the entire month. He still pulled in 170k last year and was home every single night of the year except for a couple mx issues that overnighted him somewhere other than home. I know things can change but When I think of great schedules and QOL he has it.

 

[Seat 0A]

Why do you guys think flight safety doesn't count?
I

Never said it didn't. I simply posted ALL the data instead of part of it as so many guys do. I know plenty of airline guys who brag about their "10 days/month schedule" and when you start to get into full disclosure you find out they are commuting on their own time.

I posted it that way in case someone might want to know how the number of days on the LINE (i.e. out in the elements dealing with crap) breaks down.

 

[Seat 0A]

You really can't count sick or personal days.

.

???
Actually, since it is a PERSONAL day that I can use, and we earn 12 per year, I certainly can count it as a day off. What would you call it??

If I CHOOSE not to use it I can be paid up to 110% for cashing them in.

 

[Seat 0A]

The bonus really doesn't count, when do you think the next one will be?

WTFO?

Quick!, someone call 911. Kman might be having a seizure or a stroke.

I specifically DID NOT include the bonus in my figures. Go back and re-read the whole post!!

Sh*t, I even put "not" in bold.

Jeez.

 

[kman]

Its the same as calling in sck, I called in sck or used a personal days so could anybody else that has a better schedule than me.

15days off a month called in sck for 3 days, I still worked 13 days that month.

My buddy has 20 days off a month and calls in sck for 3 he has only worked 7 days that month.

If you live in base there is noway we can match the QOL of a senior guys at the major.

My bad about the bonus guess I read it wrong.

 

[BengalsFan]

I still don't understand why this is still going on... and even getting a little heated... Here, I'll moderate.

KMan, you are correct, there are other jobs out there that pay more, have more days off and/or more flexible schedules. There is risk and you have noted that you understand this. You also have made it clear that you are willing to live in any Southwest domicile to include: Chicago, Baltimore and Oakland, because these are the most junior bases, and the only ones which you will be able to hold the schedules you so desire.

Everyone else. KMan isn't knocking NetJets, he is stating facts that there are other options out there that pay more and POTENTIALLY have better schedules (whether or not that is better QOL is individually based).

I have a lot of friends at both companies and they all are trying to get me to come to their's... because they feel it is the best. To me, I'll apply to both and take the one that wants me, because you can't go wrong with either.

My $0.02, I'll choose NetJets if I'm offered both, because I want the flexibility to live anywhere I want (within reason) and no commute, although long term financial rewards will probably be sacraficed. I believe NetJets has more long term stability (IMHO), I also prefer business a/c over what seems to be everyone elses dream of flying a big ass boat in the sky. But this arguement could go on for years, because it is individual opinion about what is important.

But I wish more people thought like Kman, so there will be an open seat for me at NetJets when i get out of the military.

Take care all... happy new year!

 

[kman]

See he gets what I'm tying to say. Netjets is a great place and am grateful for the job I have, I just don't know if its my final stop. Which was the orginal question. From what I have seen this wouldn't be a bad choice, its it might not be the best option for me. Have a great new year guys.

 

[JungleJett]

What some seem to be forgetting is that job security factors into overall quality of life. If I do not need to worry about being furloughed, my airline being merged with another, my company going tango uniform, losing a major contract....then that is one less stress on me and my personal QOL is better. You cannot put a price tag on that...

There are less than a handful of airlines that offer any stability...and they are NOT hiring right now. I know a ton of folks at UPS and you cannot call that a good..or healthy...QOL. The money is good as is the stability..but the schedule WILL kill you.

SWA..they are an anomoly in the business. I would have considered them as well.

I am looking forward to NJA....

(Plus, they are super military friendly....and that is a big deal to me)

 

[BengalsFan]

Jungle Jet

Will you elaborate on the "super military friendly" comment?

 

[Ultra Grump]

Money isn't my primary concern, but the opportunity is still greater at the majors. That being said I gladly earn 120k to work 9 days a month compared to working 15 days a month for 160k.

Take a 2-month unpaid LOA every year. All the time off you need, all in one block.

 

[bluepost]

I agree with what Kman says. Senior flying at any of the majors is a better job. More stable? Not necessarily. Now what airlines can you get senior in a reasonable amount of time? SWA, FEX, UPS. Anything else is a pretty big gamble.

Now if your willing to give up some money and stability, to each their own....I would rather sit right seat in a 767 international for 100k a year then fly NJA for 120k, any more then that, the money talks.


I get it. Big airplanes are cool, if given a choice I would fly one. Trip trading, picking your destinations, who you fly with, planning things on the road, I would love it all. If someone is willing to give up some money early on for that, and pretty sure they will make it up in 25 years, go for it.

I'm making too much money to leave, the money is enough to provide what I want in life and my wife doesn't work now, but will be again once the kids are older. I have a family and gave up the 747-400 dream for them, and was happy to do it. But I still long for them every time I see them on 28R at SFO.

 

[goahead]

A SWA friend of my Lives is his hometown, averages 19.7 days off a month and with vacation it drops down 22 days off a month. He can do day trips for a couple of months, longer coast to coast stuff or just drop most of his schd, and fly 3 days for the entire month. He still pulled in 170k last year and was home every single night of the year except for a couple mx issues that overnighted him somewhere other than home. I know things can change but When I think of great schedules and QOL he has it.

And how long has he been there?? What base Hou DAL just curious would love that QOL but don't think it exists for "or generation".

 

[Cavpilot]

Jungle Jet

Will you elaborate on the "super military friendly" comment?

I'll field this question. NetJets is without a doubt, "Super military friendly". I have never had a problem getting time off for drills, active duty, etc..

Not only that, the company takes time to send care packages and other stuff to those over in the sandbox.