Netjets - The final stop?

[wms]

I'm 27 and been here about 2.5 years and am not sure if this is the place to hang my hat yet.

I really wish there was a better schd for the senior guys. At age 40 I would have 13 yrs of seniority and need still be on the 7n7. Seniority of a 13 yr guy and 20 year guy is the same, besides a/c and vacation the best schd you will fly will be 7n7. And right now Im still about 1-2 years away from upgrading.

If there was a premium schd lets say 5 on 7 off for the top 5 percent I would stay in a heartbeat.
If the right major calls, I think I will leave and take my shot. The flexibility (dropping, trading, picking up), possibility of a great schd (18 to 21 days off a month), workload that is 3 to 4 times less than what I m and doing now, will convince me to leave.

Don’t take me wrong guys this is a great job, but I'm not sure it’s the place for me. I have 35 plus years to give, I want great QOL, netjets just doesn't offer enough yet for me to want to put in 20 years. If income all being the same 20 years at almost any major (assuming I don't get laid off) will provide me with ability to control my schedule with up to 6 days off more a month than nja.

It may take me 20 years to get to where I have 18 plus days off, day trips if I like, dropping my 2 of my 4 four 3 day trips so I only work 6 days the entire month, but if i plan financially , and be lucky enough not to be furloughed. after 20 years at I could reduce my schd for less income and be happy flying only a couple days a month. I know this may all be a pipe dream, but I haven't lost all my hope just yet.

Right now I rather be a 20 yr captain a the right major than a 20 year captain at nja.

Check what's been happening at the airlines. I'm senior and only hold commutable 4-days. But then I get integrated and am scheduled 4-on, 1-off, 3-on, 1-off, 4-on, not commutable. On reserve or relief, five or six on-one off over a stretch of time is common. I'd gladly work seven day stretches in exchange for 26 weeks off per year plus vacation. The only problem is with that much time at home my wife might get tired of me.

 

[imacdog]

One thing I've noticed coming to NJA from a regional airline is that a much higher percentage of guys here actually still enjoy flying, versus the airline where many people saw it as nothing more than a job where they might eventually get decent pay and a good schedule. While fractional/charter/corporate flying isn't for everyone, those who enjoy this type of flying could certainly make a career out of NetJets. If you come here, be prepared for the worst part of the job (being a professional airline passenger). That part kind of sucks.

 

[NJA bound]

"professional airline passenger" that's funny


It is nice seeing new airports everyday, keeps it fun and interesting.

 

[DO-82 driver]

You might want to go ahead and read that new contract you (I assume) voted on; it's kind of important.

Briefly, yes, we still accrue one day a month. Section 10 has the details.

Next IBB there will be only 2 sections.....

SEction13 and Section 27. The entire contract will be placed in these 2 sections to ensure everyone reads the entire contract.

 

[RJ Bum]

For me I'm happier than a pig in slop right now. My only regret is that I didn't accept the job with NetJets years ago when I had the opportunity. (I was drowning in a pool with a major at the time and then flushed after 9/11)

I am 31 and have no interest on moving on. This is my 4th airline with a strike and a furlough under my belt.

I agree with a previous post that one thing that needs to be addressed is having a better schedule to look forward to with senority, but right now you just can't beat the IMEDIATE QOL the NetJets has to offer. The benefits and not commuting sealed it for me. While starting a family and not having to up root them every few years is a huge benefit that is sometimes over looked. Sure a 20 year Capt at FEDEX has better QOL. But the 19 before that probably wasn't pretty. How many times did he have to move to a different base to get that QOL? How many different times weighing out taking the hit in QOL for more pay in a different aircraft, or as a Capt?

Sure we work harder than the typical major, but we are rewarded with having good QOL early in our career and for a much longer time. The fact that this market is just being tapped, and we are by far dominating that market, the sky is the limit here. Ask any major airline guy if he/she recalls a time when the company offered to renogotiate the contract with a major raise and better QOL issues before the current contract is over all at the same time of making record profits. It just doesn't happen. Make no mistake, the company bought us cheap and the company as well as us will be reaping the benefits in the near future.

 

[RJ Bum]

One thing I've noticed coming to NJA from a regional airline is that a much higher percentage of guys here actually still enjoy flying, versus the airline where many people saw it as nothing more than a job where they might eventually get decent pay and a good schedule. While fractional/charter/corporate flying isn't for everyone, those who enjoy this type of flying could certainly make a career out of NetJets. If you come here, be prepared for the worst part of the job (being a professional airline passenger). That part kind of sucks.

+100000000

Coming to NJA made me remember that there was much more to flying than in and out of ATL and CVG.

 

[Seat 0A]

I know a lot of guys that have been at a major for 13 years, 8 of which were on furlough. They work a lot more days per month than I do.

7n7 with 4 wks vacation averages 13.8 days/month.

I agree. However, there is more to the story.....

What so many fail to do is make an apples to apples comparison (to the extent possible) when comparing NJA to a Major.

To do this you must define days "worked". If you were at the Majors would you do any commuting or be doing ANY traveling while not on duty? I feel you have to compare days away from home/family, and also any uncompensated hours during a duty day.

This year at NJA I was:

On duty 154 days = 12.83 days/month

Flew the line 133 days (after subtracting 1 week for company and 2 weeks for FlightSafety) = 11.08 days/month

I could have taken one more tour off with personal days which would leave:
147 duty days = 12.25 days/month
or 126 line flying days = 10.05 days/month

At 10 years there will be another week of vacation in these figures.

Again, if you compare days away from home it is a much more appropriate comparison with the Majors.

I didn't volunteer for any extra days. Service year 6/7. Had gross wages over $122,000 (29% over base) not counting bonus payout. Had this year been at the new IBB wages this would have been a bit over $140,000. Add another $6-7k tax-free per-diem if you want, plus other extras.

Never had to "work" too hard loading bags. Line guys do the lifting. Actually there are not always that many bags, sometimes just briefcases or overnight bags. Calling ahead for ground transportation is no big deal and frankly doesn't happen all that often. Catering also not a big deal, in fact it is often left behind which means many $50 bottles of wine, etc. for the crew! (exceeds our normal stock list and cannot remain on aircraft).

All travel done on duty, with a ticket.

Get home after midnight pays me around $1800 and includes time recovery on front of next tour. Home after Noon and take the whole first day off next tour.

Summary: Nearly $150,000 compensation for a 7 year pilot, 10-13 days per month away from home, decent food not obtained from the airport food court, a minimum of 10 hours at the hotel, Hilton-quality hotels, full health/vision/dental, good QOL.

So once you finally get past the Boeing or Airbus fix and start to make a fair comparison, I feel this is light years ahead. I wouldn't go back to 121 even if I was in my 20's. Couldn't drag my family through that crap.

 

[hopalong]

Coming to NJA was the best decision I have ever made. The quality of life is awesome. I am thirty something and wish I did it years ago, so that I'd be captain now. But now w/ the new contract life is sweet even as an FO.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

but right now you just can't beat the IMEDIATE QOL the NetJets has to offer.

I'll take that bet...

There are part 91 operators with significantly better QOL. But I have to hand it to you guys on the healthcare and retirement. Just outstanding. I'm very jealous.

 

[kman]

Check what's been happening at the airlines. I'm senior and only hold commutable 4-days. But then I get integrated and am scheduled 4-on, 1-off, 3-on, 1-off, 4-on, not commutable. On reserve or relief, five or six on-one off over a stretch of time is common. I'd gladly work seven day stretches in exchange for 26 weeks off per year plus vacation. The only problem is with that much time at home my wife might get tired of me.

No offense but I have friends at SWA, FEDEX, DeLTA that have 18-22 days off a month that drop down to 6-9 days a month because they can afford too. Where do you work at?

I would only leave this job for a few select carriers and it still would be a hard choice. If I were to stay i would hope we could work on getting the senior guys at least one more week of vacation or a very senior 5-6 on 7-8 schd.

For the right carrier I would move to my base and stay there for the rest of my career. I still believe having the option of days trips, swapping, trading, dropping, knowing what ur doing trip wise, and 18-21 days off a month would outweigh the 7n7 by far down the road. With that being said I believe my QOL on and off the road could be greater than what NJA has to offer. I know the risks, but I guess I refuse to grow up and lose hope that I could have my cake and eat it too.

 

[gunfyter]

I'll take that bet...

There are part 91 operators with significantly better QOL. But I have to hand it to you guys on the healthcare and retirement. Just outstanding. I'm very jealous.

There are but you usually have to know somebody to get in. And hopefully they never close the flight department

 

[FurloughedAgain]

And hopefully they never close the flight department

You've been eavesdropping on my bedtime prayers.

That's the one thing that has me even considering applying to NetJets right now. I think there is a much better chance that you guys will be here 25+ years from now, then my current department.

And right about the time I start to put pen to paper on the application, my son comes up and pulls on my pantleg to play with him. I just can't be gone 2 weeks a month. Would break my heart.

 

[kman]

I agree. However, there is more to the story.....

What so many fail to do is make an apples to apples comparison (to the extent possible) when comparing NJA to a Major.

To do this you must define days "worked". If you were at the Majors would you do any commuting or be doing ANY traveling while not on duty? I feel you have to compare days away from home/family.

This year at NJA I was:

On duty 154 days = 12.83 days/month

Flew the line 133 days (after subtracting 1 week for company and 2 weeks for FlightSafety) = 11.08 days/month

I could have taken one more tour off with personal days which would leave:
147 duty days = 12.25 days/month
or 126 line flying days = 10.05 days/month

At 10 years there will be another week of vacation in these figures.

Again, if you compare days away from home it is a much more appropriate comparison with the Majors.

I didn't volunteer for any extra days. Service year 6/7. Had gross wages over $122,000 (29% over base) not counting bonus payout. Had this year been at the new IBB wages this would have been a bit over $140,000. Add another $6-7k tax-free per-diem if you want, plus other extras.

Never had to "work" too hard loading bags. Line guys do the lifting. Actually there are not always that many bags, sometimes just briefcases or overnight bags. Calling ahead for ground transportation is no big deal and frankly doesn't happen all that often. Catering also not a big deal, in fact it is often left behind which means many $50 bottles of wine, etc. for the crew! (exceeds our normal stock list and cannot remain on aircraft).

All travel done on duty, with a ticket.

Get home after midnight pays me around $1800 and includes time recovery on front of next tour. Home after Noon and take the whole first day off next tour.

Summary: Nearly $150,000 compensation for a 7 year pilot, 10-13 days per month away from home, decent food not obtained from the airport food court, full health/vision/dental, good QOL.

So once you finally get past the Boeing or Airbus fix and start to make a fair comparison, I feel this is light years ahead. I wouldn't go back to 121 even if I was in my 20's. Couldn't drag my family through that crap.

I really don't give a crap about boeing or airbus, I do hate Cessna cockpits though. Its all about QOL on and OFF the road, Flexiblity of scheduling and time off.

Like I said before, I'm willing to move to my base, so no commuting for me. Even If I did commute, during my my airline career, I only commuted a handful of times the day b4 and the commuting policy took care of the rest( usually two flights at any decent airline). The last two years at the airline I never left my house more than 4 hours b4 my sign in time commuting to ORD. Usually after a couple of years yu can hold a line that start late in the pm and returns early on the am the last day.

There is noway u can subtract 3 weeks for comp, and a/c rec. Its still duty away from home. It may seem like a vacation, but its not. Why do you guys think flight safety doesn't count?

You really can't count sick or personal days.

Money isn't my primary concern, but the opportunity is still greater at the majors. That being said I gladly earn 120k to work 9 days a month compared to working 15 days a month for 160k.

A SWA friend of my Lives is his hometown, averages 19.7 days off a month and with vacation it drops down 22 days off a month. He can do day trips for a couple of months, longer coast to coast stuff or just drop most of his schd, and fly 3 days for the entire month. He still pulled in 170k last year and was home every single night of the year except for a couple mx issues that overnighted him somewhere other than home. I know things can change but When I think of great schedules and QOL he has it.

 

[Seat 0A]

Why do you guys think flight safety doesn't count?
I

Never said it didn't. I simply posted ALL the data instead of part of it as so many guys do. I know plenty of airline guys who brag about their "10 days/month schedule" and when you start to get into full disclosure you find out they are commuting on their own time.

I posted it that way in case someone might want to know how the number of days on the LINE (i.e. out in the elements dealing with crap) breaks down.

 

[Seat 0A]

You really can't count sick or personal days.

.

???
Actually, since it is a PERSONAL day that I can use, and we earn 12 per year, I certainly can count it as a day off. What would you call it??

If I CHOOSE not to use it I can be paid up to 110% for cashing them in.

 

[Seat 0A]

The bonus really doesn't count, when do you think the next one will be?

WTFO?

Quick!, someone call 911. Kman might be having a seizure or a stroke.

I specifically DID NOT include the bonus in my figures. Go back and re-read the whole post!!

Sh*t, I even put "not" in bold.

Jeez.

 

[kman]

Its the same as calling in sck, I called in sck or used a personal days so could anybody else that has a better schedule than me.

15days off a month called in sck for 3 days, I still worked 13 days that month.

My buddy has 20 days off a month and calls in sck for 3 he has only worked 7 days that month.

If you live in base there is noway we can match the QOL of a senior guys at the major.

My bad about the bonus guess I read it wrong.

 

[BengalsFan]

I still don't understand why this is still going on... and even getting a little heated... Here, I'll moderate.

KMan, you are correct, there are other jobs out there that pay more, have more days off and/or more flexible schedules. There is risk and you have noted that you understand this. You also have made it clear that you are willing to live in any Southwest domicile to include: Chicago, Baltimore and Oakland, because these are the most junior bases, and the only ones which you will be able to hold the schedules you so desire.

Everyone else. KMan isn't knocking NetJets, he is stating facts that there are other options out there that pay more and POTENTIALLY have better schedules (whether or not that is better QOL is individually based).

I have a lot of friends at both companies and they all are trying to get me to come to their's... because they feel it is the best. To me, I'll apply to both and take the one that wants me, because you can't go wrong with either.

My $0.02, I'll choose NetJets if I'm offered both, because I want the flexibility to live anywhere I want (within reason) and no commute, although long term financial rewards will probably be sacraficed. I believe NetJets has more long term stability (IMHO), I also prefer business a/c over what seems to be everyone elses dream of flying a big ass boat in the sky. But this arguement could go on for years, because it is individual opinion about what is important.

But I wish more people thought like Kman, so there will be an open seat for me at NetJets when i get out of the military.

Take care all... happy new year!

 

[kman]

See he gets what I'm tying to say. Netjets is a great place and am grateful for the job I have, I just don't know if its my final stop. Which was the orginal question. From what I have seen this wouldn't be a bad choice, its it might not be the best option for me. Have a great new year guys.

 

[JungleJett]

What some seem to be forgetting is that job security factors into overall quality of life. If I do not need to worry about being furloughed, my airline being merged with another, my company going tango uniform, losing a major contract....then that is one less stress on me and my personal QOL is better. You cannot put a price tag on that...

There are less than a handful of airlines that offer any stability...and they are NOT hiring right now. I know a ton of folks at UPS and you cannot call that a good..or healthy...QOL. The money is good as is the stability..but the schedule WILL kill you.

SWA..they are an anomoly in the business. I would have considered them as well.

I am looking forward to NJA....

(Plus, they are super military friendly....and that is a big deal to me)