Thank God for the APA!

[BeCareful!]

I certainly appreciate the APA at this point. Let's all support this effort in any way we can.




Originally Posted by www.alliedpilots.org
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT:
Gregg Overman
Allied Pilots Association
817-302-2250/817-312-3901

PILOT RETIREMENT AGE POLL: PUBLIC URGES CAUTION

Fort Worth, Texas (December 12, 2007)—The Allied Pilots Association,
collective bargaining agent for the 12,000 pilots of American Airlines, issued the
following prepared statement today:

“This week the U.S. House of Representatives voted to increase airline pilot
retirement age from 60 to 65. Companion legislation is now pending in the Senate.

“The Allied Pilots Association—which represents the 12,000 pilots of American
Airlines, the nation’s largest passenger carrier—has commissioned an outside polling
firm to survey U.S. adults on pilot retirement age. Results so far indicate that an
overwhelming majority of Americans have serious safety concerns about any increase in
the retirement age and favor further study.

“Similarly, our pilots support age 60 retirement by a seven-to-one margin for
safety reasons. We should heed their professional judgment. After all, pilots are in the
best position to ascertain the effects of aging on their own stamina and skills and on those
of their fellow pilots.

“In response to the public’s concerns and our pilots’ own views, we urge
lawmakers to refrain from passing into law any increase in pilot retirement age. Instead,
the Federal Aviation Administration should be permitted to proceed with a Notice of
Proposed Rulemaking for a full vetting of this issue.

“The United States has long set the worldwide standard for aviation safety and
should preserve its leadership role. The reality is no one knows what would happen with
large numbers of 65-year-old pilots in the cockpits of modern commercial airliners
operating in today’s demanding environment. The data doesn’t exist because it would be
unprecedented. Prudence therefore dictates that we proceed with caution.

“For safety’s sake, it’s the right thing to do.”

 

[kwick]

What?

"Unprecedented? " You guys been in a cave? It's been happening in almost every country in the world including the U.S. for over a year.

 

[vetrider]

What is USAPA's position?

 

[magrs]

I never thought I'd say this, but APA seems to be the Big dof these days!!!

ALPA could sure stand to learn something from these guys.

Go get 'em!

 

[eaglefly]

The APA has repeatedly demonstrated themselves to be ethically bankrupt and so self-serving, they'd misrepresent the fact that they wear hats.

Their efforts will fail miserably.

 

[BeCareful!]

What is USAPA's position?

From the FAQ's on the USAPA website:


What is USAPA's stand on age 60?[FONT=Arial,sans-serif]

[/FONT][FONT=Arial,sans-serif]USAPA does not have a stand on age 60. It is not our place to tell the pilots how we feel, quite the opposite; it is up to the pilots to tell us how they feel. It is, as USAPA's byline states, "up to the pilots to decide." [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,sans-serif][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,sans-serif][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,sans-serif][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,sans-serif]Wow, listening to the membership; what an un-Prater like concept[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,sans-serif][/FONT]

 

[bravodude]

I was told that even though ICAO has raised the age to 65 not alot of airlines allow their pilots to actually fly past age 60.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

[FONT=Arial,sans-serif]

Wow, listening to the membership; what an un-Prater like concept

[/FONT]

Let's say the USAPA pilots...whoever they are, say they want age 60. What will USAPA do about it?

Put out a press release?

 

[Ih8AFYesmen]

APA has big balls, period! ALPA needs a huge dose of Viagra for balls.

 

[vetrider]

From the FAQ's on the USAPA website:


What is USAPA's stand on age 60?

[FONT=Arial,sans-serif]USAPA does not have a stand on age 60. It is not our place to tell the pilots how we feel, quite the opposite; it is up to the pilots to tell us how they feel. It is, as USAPA's byline states, "up to the pilots to decide." [/FONT]



[FONT=Arial,sans-serif]Wow, listening to the membership; what an un-Prater like concept[/FONT]

That much is true I suppose, I think Prater just listens to the voices inside his head. What a dipstick of a loose canon.

 

[eaglefly]

APA has big balls, period! ALPA needs a huge dose of Viagra for balls.

Big Balls, but little brains.

Their multimillion-dollar fines of the past should prove that.

At any rate, one age discrimination lawsuit will shut the APA and AMR down immeadiately on this issue.

 

[Matrix]

Big Balls, but little brains.

Um, you fly for Eagle right?

At any rate, one age discrimination lawsuit will shut the APA and AMR down immeadiately on this issue.

Again, you fly for Eagle right?
What do you know?
A litter bitter?

 

[BoilerUP]

54% of the 1,138 AAA pilots that took the ALPA Blue Ribbon Panel survey said they wanted the Age 60 rule to change...and 36% said if it was going to change anyway, they wanted ALPA to drop opposition to "address FAA or Congressional efforts to change the rule".

 

[aa73]

Um, you fly for Eagle right?






Again, you fly for Eagle right?
What do you know?
A litter bitter?

Matrix.... you hit the nail on the head. Beat me to it.

Eaglefly... well, never mind. Have a nice life.

73

 

[Pinkslip]

APA is the only "True Pilot Union!" I would like to join APA.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

Where do I sign up for this union?

 

[LearLove]

54% of the 1,138 AAA pilots that took the ALPA Blue Ribbon Panel survey said they wanted the Age 60 rule to change...and 36% said if it was going to change anyway, they wanted ALPA to drop opposition to "address FAA or Congressional efforts to change the rule".

yeah but they didn't let any of the 1800 furloughed take part - results would have been much diff.

 

[Ih8AFYesmen]

Big Balls, but little brains.

Their multimillion-dollar fines of the past should prove that.

At any rate, one age discrimination lawsuit will shut the APA and AMR down immeadiately on this issue.

The multimillion-dollar fines were mostly, if not fully recovered. Any APA guys/gals want to confirm this? I hear too many WDs bring up the phrase "law suit" by the company. When will we ever grow a couple?

 

[eaglefly]

Um, you fly for Eagle right?






Again, you fly for Eagle right?
What do you know?
A litter bitter?

But happy !

Doesn't change what the APA (Arrogant Phallus Association) is though.

 

[eaglefly]

Matrix.... you hit the nail on the head. Beat me to it.

Eaglefly... well, never mind. Have a nice life.

73

Thanks...............I do.

 

[JohnQ]

All you guys bashing ALPA over this Age 60 thing are smoking crack. You (and apparently, the APA) are still at the "Denial" and "Anger" phase of a cancer patient, while ALPA has reached "Acceptance" and has actually tried to be a player in the process.

In case you didn't know, both the House and Senate UNANIMOUSLY passed the Age 65 bill--not one congressman anywhere (!) opposed it--not even in the APA's back yard--so much for effectiveness.

As was mentioned on another message board, even the declaration of war against Japan had one dissenting vote!

Age 65 was going to happen as surely as the earth orbits the sun and not the other way around, and opposing it was as pointless as the crazy Roman emperor Caligula throwing spears against the ocean.

I don't like Age 65...I thought Age 60 was a good rule from both safety and career perspectives. I am pretty sure that ALPA felt the same way. But you can live in the real world (which is what ALPA is trying to do) and be an active participant in a painful but obviously inevitable process, or you can stick your head in the sand so deep it is creeping past the small of your back and spend your time on internet message boards telling each other what you want to hear.

I for one, am glad that ALPA is taking the realistic route, even if it isn't the "feel good" one.

 

[ToThePain]

All you guys bashing ALPA over this Age 60 thing are smoking crack. You (and apparently, the APA) are still at the "Denial" and "Anger" phase of a cancer patient, while ALPA has reached "Acceptance" and has actually tried to be a player in the process.

In case you didn't know, both the House and Senate UNANIMOUSLY passed the Age 65 bill--not one congressman anywhere (!) opposed it--not even in the APA's back yard--so much for effectiveness.

As was mentioned on another message board, even the declaration of war against Japan had one dissenting vote!

Age 65 was going to happen as surely as the earth orbits the sun and not the other way around, and opposing it was as pointless as the crazy Roman emperor Caligula throwing spears against the ocean.

I don't like Age 65...I thought Age 60 was a good rule from both safety and career perspectives. I am pretty sure that ALPA felt the same way. But you can live in the real world (which is what ALPA is trying to do) and be an active participant in a painful but obviously inevitable process, or you can stick your head in the sand so deep it is creeping past the small of your back and spend your time on internet message boards telling each other what you want to hear.

I for one, am glad that ALPA is taking the realistic route, even if it isn't the "feel good" one.

This may all be true JohnQ. I still feel that ALPA should have followed what the membership wanted and that was to oppose the age change until it was changed. If what you are saying is true then why have 3 age 60 polls to see what the membership thinks? Then after the final poll find the one question that they can hang their hat on to present to the membership, "if the rule were to change would you want ALPA to be an active participant in the process"
The leaders at ALPA wanted this to change, that much is clear.
There is no question that as a stand alone bill the house and senate were going to pass this. No congressman or senator wants AARP (one of the more powerful lobby groups) against them with elections coming up next year. Finally while ICAO had changed the age requirements to 65, very few countries/companies have adopted the change. In the US there are going to be lawsuits left and right about when the law was passed and how they, the pilots were screwed. People are going to be grandfathered in (or try to be) You won't see this in other countries and you may never see age 65 at most of the countries. While we are looking at other countries/international carriers how about we take a look at their medical examinations. Our are a joke, you pay for your medical, period. No one is interested in whether you are in good health, the Docs just want their $90. If we were truly interested in safety we would chnage our very outdated medical exams. When the ALPA Blue Ribbon pannel met they refused to even intorduce this has a possibility. I for one think that guys may be able to fly past 60 but we need to change our medical. I dont want the age 65 to pass, it will hurt a lot of careers as well as slow the recall process for furloughs.

 

[JohnQ]

You do raise some excellent points. Such as

If what you are saying is true then why have 3 age 60 polls to see what the membership thinks? Then after the final poll find the one question that they can hang their hat on to present to the membership, "if the rule were to change would you want ALPA to be an active participant in the process"

And

In the US there are going to be lawsuits left and right about when the law was passed and how they, the pilots were screwed. People are going to be grandfathered in (or try to be)

I do believe, however, that a no-grandfather clause was part of the US legislation.

While we are looking at other countries/international carriers how about we take a look at their medical examinations. Our are a joke, you pay for your medical, period. No one is interested in whether you are in good health, the Docs just want their $90. If we were truly interested in safety we would chnage our very outdated medical exams.

Good points! See it is possible to respectfully disagree. I will also go so far as to say that at least until the last two years (when we lost our pension at DAL) every pilot I ever talked to in favor of eliminating Age 60 was a smug arrogant "It's all about me sort" who I wouldn't want to fly with anyway! That is not so much the case now, as we are making half what we used to with no pension to depend on.

I just think that it was inevitable and ALPA is taking the "least bad" approach...why did ALPA even bother with the surveys? I don't know--eyewash probably.

And if we ever DO get more stringent medical requirements--as we should--then you may see more pilots fade away due just to that then stick around longer due to Age 65.

 

[aa73]

The multimillion-dollar fines were mostly, if not fully recovered. Any APA guys/gals want to confirm this? I hear too many WDs bring up the phrase "law suit" by the company. When will we ever grow a couple?

The $45M fine was dropped when the 2003 contract was signed.

Critics will always condemn the APA for acting foolishly by staging the 1999 sickout. But the bottom line is, it accomplished what it was intended for, and forced the company to bring Reno up to Green Book rates. So I'd say it was successful.

73

 

[Jonny Sacko]

Great job APA, we (THE MAJORITY) Commend you. Here's what these SCABS's have now accomplished, and are pushing us into the mix also! Anyone over 60 flying will be treated like the SCAB they are!

Table 1 – Actuarial Study of lifespan vs. age at retirement.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Age at……………………….Average Age
Retirement…………………….At Death
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
49.9………………………….86
51.2………………………….85.3
52.5………………………….84.6
53.8………………………….83.9
55.1………………………….83.2
56.4………………………….82.5
57.2………………………….81.4
58.3………………………….80
59.2………………………….78.5
60.1………………………….76.8
60……………………………74.5
62.1………………………….71.8
63.1………………………….69.3
64.1………………………….67.9
65.2………………………….66.8

 

[BeCareful!]

What is USAPA's stand on age 60?

USAPA does not have a stand on age 60. It is not our place to tell the pilots how we feel, quite the opposite; it is up to the pilots to tell us how they feel. It is, as USAPA's byline states, "up to the pilots to decide."



[FONT=Arial,sans-serif]Wow, listening to the membership; what an un-Prater like concept[/FONT]





That much is true I suppose, I think Prater just listens to the voices inside his head. What a dipstick of a loose canon.

Wow, vetrider.....as two old moto-heads (I assume), I knew we'd eventually find something we could agree on.

 

[MD80DRVR]

Great job APA, we (THE MAJORITY) Commend you. Here's what these SCABS's have now accomplished, and are pushing us into the mix also! Anyone over 60 flying will be treated like the SCAB they are!

Table 1 – Actuarial Study of lifespan vs. age at retirement.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Age at……………………….Average Age
Retirement…………………….At Death
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
49.9………………………….86
51.2………………………….85.3
52.5………………………….84.6
53.8………………………….83.9
55.1………………………….83.2
56.4………………………….82.5
57.2………………………….81.4
58.3………………………….80
59.2………………………….78.5
60.1………………………….76.8
60……………………………74.5
62.1………………………….71.8
63.1………………………….69.3
64.1………………………….67.9
65.2………………………….66.8

Give me a break. I'm only in my mid-thirties but I totally support anyone who wants to fly past 60. It's not your decision, it's theirs. Mark my words, one year after this rule is enacted, everyone will have forgotten about it. Calling them scabs is just ridiculous.....

 

[Frank Lorenzo]

Give me a break. I'm only in my mid-thirties but I totally support anyone who wants to fly past 60.

This coming from a Jet Blow trash-picker who flies an E-Jet for peanuts.

Real shocker there.

The pilots of Jet Blow - the crown jewel of the pilot profession.

 

[AA717driver]

This coming from a Jet Blow trash-picker who flies an E-Jet for peanuts.

Real shocker there.

The pilots of Jet Blow - the crown jewel of the pilot profession.

Stop it, Frank! You're just jealous you couldn't get your boys to do that. TC

 

[Tejas-Jet]

APA is the only "True Pilot Union!" I would like to join APA.

You can join...all you have to do is get hired by American Airlines.

Oh...I just noticed...the're not hiring right now...too bad for you