Thank God for the APA!

[JohnQ]

All you guys bashing ALPA over this Age 60 thing are smoking crack. You (and apparently, the APA) are still at the "Denial" and "Anger" phase of a cancer patient, while ALPA has reached "Acceptance" and has actually tried to be a player in the process.

In case you didn't know, both the House and Senate UNANIMOUSLY passed the Age 65 bill--not one congressman anywhere (!) opposed it--not even in the APA's back yard--so much for effectiveness.

As was mentioned on another message board, even the declaration of war against Japan had one dissenting vote!

Age 65 was going to happen as surely as the earth orbits the sun and not the other way around, and opposing it was as pointless as the crazy Roman emperor Caligula throwing spears against the ocean.

I don't like Age 65...I thought Age 60 was a good rule from both safety and career perspectives. I am pretty sure that ALPA felt the same way. But you can live in the real world (which is what ALPA is trying to do) and be an active participant in a painful but obviously inevitable process, or you can stick your head in the sand so deep it is creeping past the small of your back and spend your time on internet message boards telling each other what you want to hear.

I for one, am glad that ALPA is taking the realistic route, even if it isn't the "feel good" one.

 

[ToThePain]

All you guys bashing ALPA over this Age 60 thing are smoking crack. You (and apparently, the APA) are still at the "Denial" and "Anger" phase of a cancer patient, while ALPA has reached "Acceptance" and has actually tried to be a player in the process.

In case you didn't know, both the House and Senate UNANIMOUSLY passed the Age 65 bill--not one congressman anywhere (!) opposed it--not even in the APA's back yard--so much for effectiveness.

As was mentioned on another message board, even the declaration of war against Japan had one dissenting vote!

Age 65 was going to happen as surely as the earth orbits the sun and not the other way around, and opposing it was as pointless as the crazy Roman emperor Caligula throwing spears against the ocean.

I don't like Age 65...I thought Age 60 was a good rule from both safety and career perspectives. I am pretty sure that ALPA felt the same way. But you can live in the real world (which is what ALPA is trying to do) and be an active participant in a painful but obviously inevitable process, or you can stick your head in the sand so deep it is creeping past the small of your back and spend your time on internet message boards telling each other what you want to hear.

I for one, am glad that ALPA is taking the realistic route, even if it isn't the "feel good" one.

This may all be true JohnQ. I still feel that ALPA should have followed what the membership wanted and that was to oppose the age change until it was changed. If what you are saying is true then why have 3 age 60 polls to see what the membership thinks? Then after the final poll find the one question that they can hang their hat on to present to the membership, "if the rule were to change would you want ALPA to be an active participant in the process"
The leaders at ALPA wanted this to change, that much is clear.
There is no question that as a stand alone bill the house and senate were going to pass this. No congressman or senator wants AARP (one of the more powerful lobby groups) against them with elections coming up next year. Finally while ICAO had changed the age requirements to 65, very few countries/companies have adopted the change. In the US there are going to be lawsuits left and right about when the law was passed and how they, the pilots were screwed. People are going to be grandfathered in (or try to be) You won't see this in other countries and you may never see age 65 at most of the countries. While we are looking at other countries/international carriers how about we take a look at their medical examinations. Our are a joke, you pay for your medical, period. No one is interested in whether you are in good health, the Docs just want their $90. If we were truly interested in safety we would chnage our very outdated medical exams. When the ALPA Blue Ribbon pannel met they refused to even intorduce this has a possibility. I for one think that guys may be able to fly past 60 but we need to change our medical. I dont want the age 65 to pass, it will hurt a lot of careers as well as slow the recall process for furloughs.

 

[JohnQ]

You do raise some excellent points. Such as

If what you are saying is true then why have 3 age 60 polls to see what the membership thinks? Then after the final poll find the one question that they can hang their hat on to present to the membership, "if the rule were to change would you want ALPA to be an active participant in the process"

And

In the US there are going to be lawsuits left and right about when the law was passed and how they, the pilots were screwed. People are going to be grandfathered in (or try to be)

I do believe, however, that a no-grandfather clause was part of the US legislation.

While we are looking at other countries/international carriers how about we take a look at their medical examinations. Our are a joke, you pay for your medical, period. No one is interested in whether you are in good health, the Docs just want their $90. If we were truly interested in safety we would chnage our very outdated medical exams.

Good points! See it is possible to respectfully disagree. I will also go so far as to say that at least until the last two years (when we lost our pension at DAL) every pilot I ever talked to in favor of eliminating Age 60 was a smug arrogant "It's all about me sort" who I wouldn't want to fly with anyway! That is not so much the case now, as we are making half what we used to with no pension to depend on.

I just think that it was inevitable and ALPA is taking the "least bad" approach...why did ALPA even bother with the surveys? I don't know--eyewash probably.

And if we ever DO get more stringent medical requirements--as we should--then you may see more pilots fade away due just to that then stick around longer due to Age 65.

 

[aa73]

The multimillion-dollar fines were mostly, if not fully recovered. Any APA guys/gals want to confirm this? I hear too many WDs bring up the phrase "law suit" by the company. When will we ever grow a couple?

The $45M fine was dropped when the 2003 contract was signed.

Critics will always condemn the APA for acting foolishly by staging the 1999 sickout. But the bottom line is, it accomplished what it was intended for, and forced the company to bring Reno up to Green Book rates. So I'd say it was successful.

73

 

[Jonny Sacko]

Great job APA, we (THE MAJORITY) Commend you. Here's what these SCABS's have now accomplished, and are pushing us into the mix also! Anyone over 60 flying will be treated like the SCAB they are!

Table 1 – Actuarial Study of lifespan vs. age at retirement.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Age at……………………….Average Age
Retirement…………………….At Death
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
49.9………………………….86
51.2………………………….85.3
52.5………………………….84.6
53.8………………………….83.9
55.1………………………….83.2
56.4………………………….82.5
57.2………………………….81.4
58.3………………………….80
59.2………………………….78.5
60.1………………………….76.8
60……………………………74.5
62.1………………………….71.8
63.1………………………….69.3
64.1………………………….67.9
65.2………………………….66.8

 

[BeCareful!]

What is USAPA's stand on age 60?

USAPA does not have a stand on age 60. It is not our place to tell the pilots how we feel, quite the opposite; it is up to the pilots to tell us how they feel. It is, as USAPA's byline states, "up to the pilots to decide."



[FONT=Arial,sans-serif]Wow, listening to the membership; what an un-Prater like concept[/FONT]





That much is true I suppose, I think Prater just listens to the voices inside his head. What a dipstick of a loose canon.

Wow, vetrider.....as two old moto-heads (I assume), I knew we'd eventually find something we could agree on.

 

[MD80DRVR]

Great job APA, we (THE MAJORITY) Commend you. Here's what these SCABS's have now accomplished, and are pushing us into the mix also! Anyone over 60 flying will be treated like the SCAB they are!

Table 1 – Actuarial Study of lifespan vs. age at retirement.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Age at……………………….Average Age
Retirement…………………….At Death
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
49.9………………………….86
51.2………………………….85.3
52.5………………………….84.6
53.8………………………….83.9
55.1………………………….83.2
56.4………………………….82.5
57.2………………………….81.4
58.3………………………….80
59.2………………………….78.5
60.1………………………….76.8
60……………………………74.5
62.1………………………….71.8
63.1………………………….69.3
64.1………………………….67.9
65.2………………………….66.8

Give me a break. I'm only in my mid-thirties but I totally support anyone who wants to fly past 60. It's not your decision, it's theirs. Mark my words, one year after this rule is enacted, everyone will have forgotten about it. Calling them scabs is just ridiculous.....

 

[Frank Lorenzo]

Give me a break. I'm only in my mid-thirties but I totally support anyone who wants to fly past 60.

This coming from a Jet Blow trash-picker who flies an E-Jet for peanuts.

Real shocker there.

The pilots of Jet Blow - the crown jewel of the pilot profession.

 

[AA717driver]

This coming from a Jet Blow trash-picker who flies an E-Jet for peanuts.

Real shocker there.

The pilots of Jet Blow - the crown jewel of the pilot profession.

Stop it, Frank! You're just jealous you couldn't get your boys to do that. TC

 

[Tejas-Jet]

APA is the only "True Pilot Union!" I would like to join APA.

You can join...all you have to do is get hired by American Airlines.

Oh...I just noticed...the're not hiring right now...too bad for you