Question for usapa wannabes

[Fast43]

I see alot of posts here and elsewhere claiming that your hatred of ALPA is not tied to the Nic Award. But that its rooted in ALPA's past wrongs to the AAA pilot group (most of which I understand were ratified by the membership).

However at least at this point it seems that most east guys want an improved contract and at least pay parity. Being that ALPA is poised to bend over backward and spend a lot of money to achieve just that and more, why not just let them do that and you could have a tremendously better contract by the end of the year.


Then unload them!!!


Could it be that the only reason for usapa is to try and circumvent a Binding Arbitration result.

Since it is obvious to most that this is your true intention. Could you explain to us "rookies" just exactly how does one overturn a Binding Arbitration Award or are your lawyers telling you to zip it till later??


No bait here just curious why you wouldn't take the short road to more money and a better quality of life.

 

[PHXFLYR]

I'm curious as to how those easties who are married are selling the idea of putting off a chance at a payraise,better workrules and improved scheduling and vacation accrual to their significant others at home; just so they can attempt to decertify the union and start all over again ?


PHXFLYR

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

Senility.... Its an age related disease.

 

[PHXFLYR]

No...I'm serious. I would really like to know how they are selling that on the homefront and living to tell the tale. I could just see me coming home and telling my wife and kids."Forget about the chance for a payraise and a significant improvement in quality of life,guys. I think we'll just hang on to these rock bottom wages and work rules just a little bit longer so me and my flyin' buddies can de-certify the union instead. " Wouldn't go over too well. Can't see it going over to well on their side either, once you add the homefront's take on the issue into the mix.



PHXFLYR

 

[Deadalus]

No...I'm serious. I would really like to know how they are selling that on the homefront and living to tell the tale. I could just see me coming home and telling my wife and kids."Forget about the chance for a payraise and a significant improvement in quality of life,guys. I think we'll just hang on to these rock bottom wages and work rules just a little bit longer so me and my flyin' buddies can de-certify the union instead. " Wouldn't go over too well. Can't see it going over to well on their side either, once you add the homefront's take on the issue into the mix.



PHXFLYR

From what I've seen the East has been lied to and misled by their union reps. What makes you think the significant others are any more educated on the subject? It's too bad, it could have been a decent company. As one captain I talked to said, "it's like we're trapped in a phone booth with a guy holding a grenade saying that if we don't hand over our wallet he's going to pull the pin."

 

[PHXFLYR]

They were lied to . No doubt about it. But what's interesting is the fact that NO ONE HAS INITIATED A RECALL to have the Reps who had lied to them removed.

PHXFLYR

 

[Joey Bagodonutz]

Why would they. Their reps are just telling them what they want to hear.

 

[Golden Falcon]

the Piedmont guys used to call them "rustheads"

 

[The Victors]

maybe they just dont want to sit in the right seat next to a turboprop guy that was hired 15 years after them?

 

[waveflyer]

The nic award was fair- UNDER the currently INSANE seniority system that we have. Now the east confuse LONGEVITY w/ SENIORITY and they say that is not for sale at any price- straw that broke.....etc, etc.

What they really want is a national seniority list. And frankly I've never seen why it can't be done. It can't be any less contentious than ANYTHING that has gone on since deregulation. (Forget about ego of where you'll be slotted--- THINK about all the benefits of a national list-- domiciles, shielded from any one company's CEO debauchery, flexibility in type of flying... It would be no harder now than it was before--- that's a copout. TRULY THINK ABOUT IT-- the whole DYNAMIC of our career would change)

Until we can change companies w/o the INSANE hit in $$ and QOL, management will CONTINUE to use it against us and the race to the bottom goes on...........

Never forget:

WE ARE THE ONES WHO HAVE BAILED OUT THE AIRLINE INDUSTRY.

 

[waveflyer]

That being said when east pilots who are still there are asked

"why didn't you move on to another company?"

their response is that they didn't want to start over at the bottom.

this implies two things-- 1-that their topped out LONGEVITY pay IS valuable- which nothing about the nic award says goes away when the lists merge.

2- they fail to realize that it DOESN'T MATTER how many years you've been there-- if you're on the bottom of the list-- IN EVERY OTHER WAY EXCEPT PAY, YOU ALREADY HAVE STARTED OVER AT THE BOTTOM.

all the east guys had the choice to go to any number of places when the bottom fell out of their airline. And many of them did. LONGEVITY only accounts for pay. The nic award isn't unfair- it simply points out that USAir pilots have been unlucky in the airline business as we have set it up. That shouldn't be financed by the AWA pilots.

If ALPA won't do a national list-- here's not as good solution #2- Get rid of Longevity pay, get rid of first year pay..... Every airline's pilots would gain leverage if we all knew that we didn't have to back to poverty wages if we changed companies.

 

[BeCareful!]

The nic award was fair- UNDER the currently INSANE seniority system that we have. Now the east confuse LONGEVITY w/ SENIORITY and.......

Right. 2004 with three years is senior to 1985 with 22 years. Sure, that's fair. No fence required.

Watching all you boys post to yourselves in this thread really shows just how much you don't get it. I really like how every airline pilot wife is now some money hungry, vacation hungry slave driver who is somehow in the driver's seat. Hey man, I've lived in AZ, but that's not how we did it when I was there. Grow a pair, and while you're at it realize that there are two very pertinent sides to this battle. The thinking that we should just accept the reverse windfall and let ALPA try to get us a raise is so utterly stupid and shortsighted.....it reeks of newbie, naive thinking, or perhaps it's the result of standing there with a lottery ticket that you can't cash. Either way, you're in the minority out there, so we'll have to see how it goes.

Either way, and back to the topic, ALPA sucks donkey, and those who are scared to go it alone are a bunch of pu$$ies. Few on the East would be stupid enough to think there's a big fat raise just a few months down the road. This ain't their first contract, so it's tough to fool them into thinking they are foregoing a big raise that's right behind door #3.

Nic or no Nic, there are about 3000 pilots who are DONE with ALPA.

 

[Green]

Right. 2004 with three years is senior to 1985 with 22 years. Sure, that's fair. No fence required.
quote]


You might want to check your facts again BeCareful. I'm one of those 2004 hires and I'm certainly not senior to a 1985 hire. I AM senior to every single pilot that was on furlough with little to no chance of ever being recalled. Right or wrong the Nic award is the result of binding arbitration. You guys signed on the dotted line and now it's time to show a little maturity and honor your committments. For such a senior group you sound like a bunch of whiners...

 

[Lampshade]

Either way, and back to the topic, ALPA sucks donkey, and those who are scared to go it alone are a bunch of pu$$ies. Few on the East would be stupid enough to think there's a big fat raise just a few months down the road. This ain't their first contract, so it's tough to fool them into thinking they are foregoing a big raise that's right behind door #3.

Nic or no Nic, there are about 3000 pilots who are DONE with ALPA.

I guess you've have never met the US East pilots, they will sell your jr. butt down the river for an empty Styrofoam cup. Prepare yourself...again.

 

[Deadalus]

Right. 2004 with three years is senior to 1985 with 22 years. Sure, that's fair. No fence required.

Watching all you boys post to yourselves in this thread really shows just how much you don't get it. I really like how every airline pilot wife is now some money hungry, vacation hungry slave driver who is somehow in the driver's seat. Hey man, I've lived in AZ, but that's not how we did it when I was there. Grow a pair, and while you're at it realize that there are two very pertinent sides to this battle. The thinking that we should just accept the reverse windfall and let ALPA try to get us a raise is so utterly stupid and shortsighted.....it reeks of newbie, naive thinking, or perhaps it's the result of standing there with a lottery ticket that you can't cash. Either way, you're in the minority out there, so we'll have to see how it goes.

Either way, and back to the topic, ALPA sucks donkey, and those who are scared to go it alone are a bunch of pu$$ies. Few on the East would be stupid enough to think there's a big fat raise just a few months down the road. This ain't their first contract, so it's tough to fool them into thinking they are foregoing a big raise that's right behind door #3.

Nic or no Nic, there are about 3000 pilots who are DONE with ALPA.

I may look young, but I left the commuter I was at as a chief pilot and had plenty of PIC when I came to AWA. After almost four years I'm still on short call reserve and looking to leave. Meanwhile you guys went from liquadation(yes you were about to tank) to upgrades and recalls. Who got the windfall? Don't expect any sympathy from us youngins when you guys refuse to play by the rules.

 

[Lampshade]

When they talk of attrition at USAirways it will be coming from the AWA guys looking to escape USAir career disaster ver 3.0 that is on the horizon.

 

[Deadalus]

When they talk of attrition at USAirways it will be coming from the AWA guys looking to escape USAir career disaster ver 3.0 that is on the horizon.

Bingo. I just brought home my log book to update it. I'm only about 6 mo. behind, which on reserve means about 10 flights.

 

[Deadalus]

I just sold one of my toys for an added cushion. I'll probably stick around long enough to make sure we take the arbitration decision and stick it up the East's arse.

 

[PositiveRate]

3 yrs next month for me...same situation. Not looking to leave right now, though. Where are trying to go? Anywhere in particular?

 

[The Victors]

Bingo. I just brought home my log book to update it. I'm only about 6 mo. behind, which on reserve means about 10 flights.

not a bad idea. 2008 is going to suck, for EVERYBODY, if oil stays around $100.

 

[The Victors]

3 yrs next month for me...same situation. Not looking to leave right now, though. Where are trying to go? Anywhere in particular?

swa, ups, fedex?

 

[m80drvr]

3 years in Feb for me. This place blows. But having worked for USAirways group for my whole career this is just about what I expected to happen. My problem is the 1000 pic turbine. I just don't have it so I guess i'm stuck at this sh#t hole airline. But I am updating my logbook this week just in case.

 

[MCDU]

Seems to me you might want to try Mesa. Fast upgrade.

How did you get hired with no PIC Jet?

 

[Hpilot]

3 yrs next month for me...same situation. Not looking to leave right now, though. Where are trying to go? Anywhere in particular?

SWA, I've got over 3000 121 PIC and figure it doesn't hurt to start trying. Just wathching the management push our operations towards the way things are done out east is sad.

 

[Deadalus]

SWA, I've got over 3000 121 PIC and figure it doesn't hurt to start trying. Just wathching the management push our operations towards the way things are done out east is sad.

Ditto, plus FedEx and UPS. I'm around 2700 PIC, but only about 1100 737 time because I never fly. I'm hoping things get better, but everyday I get less optimistic.

 

[Hpilot]

Seems to me you might want to try Mesa. Fast upgrade.

How did you get hired with no PIC Jet?

We used to hire people with no PIC. Most of the guys in my class had it, but one guy was an RJ fo at Air Wisky. Now Alaska's doing it with Horizon, 2000 hrs no PIC required. What a joke.

 

[m80drvr]

Seems to me you might want to try Mesa. Fast upgrade.

How did you get hired with no PIC Jet?

Hmmmmmmmmmm.....6000 hours two type ratings and three airlines. I assume the folks doing the interview figured I would pass training.

 

[olympus593]

To the east guy's: We at PDT have a flow thru that we got in exchange for pay cut to secure YOUR ATSB loan, US managment, west pilot, PDT managment, PSA managment agree that it's in our contract, but the East AAA mec is blocking it, Why?
Mesa fly 90 CRJ but the east AAA MEC is scopping pdt out of 72 seat TP, Why?

In short you AAA guy's are a bunch of a-s-s-h-o-l-e-s!!! Good luck to the west guy's we support you!

 

[Boeing747Driver]

To the east guy's: We at PDT have a flow thru that we got in exchange for pay cut to secure YOUR ATSB loan, US managment, west pilot, PDT managment, PSA managment agree that it's in our contract, but the East AAA mec is blocking it, Why?
Mesa fly 90 CRJ but the east AAA MEC is scopping pdt out of 72 seat TP, Why?

In short you AAA guy's are a bunch of a-s-s-h-o-l-e-s!!! Good luck to the west guy's we support you!

I am former ALG then AAA and now AWA. I fully support your flow thru efforts.

 

[ALGFLYR]

To the east guy's: We at PDT have a flow thru that we got in exchange for pay cut to secure YOUR ATSB loan, US managment, west pilot, PDT managment, PSA managment agree that it's in our contract, but the East AAA mec is blocking it, Why?
Mesa fly 90 CRJ but the east AAA MEC is scopping pdt out of 72 seat TP, Why?

In short you AAA guy's are a bunch of a-s-s-h-o-l-e-s!!! Good luck to the west guy's we support you!

Well, first of all, PDT is part of USAir Group so the ATSB loan was also YOURS. Management agrees their is language that supports developing a flow-thru, but it has not been completed. What that means is there is no flow-thru at this point.

The 70 seat and above turbo-props would be a violation of our scope clause. Coming from ALG, I fully support the DCH-400 or larger ATR's going to the PDT property. I think they are needed not just for PDT, but for US Airways as an airline. But if management wants them, they will have to negotiate for scope relief. In negotiations, you have to give something to get something. Do you think it would be wise to just give management parts of our contract. If we did, would they stop there, or start asking for more?

Finally, I think you will find full support for a flow-thru on the East. It's just the way you are attempting to do it that is causing the roadblock. I think your personal attack/namecalling at the end of your post carries the attitude that many on your MEC have. I personally hope a true flow-thru can be reached, but everyone has to agree.