NJI and NJA Merger Official

[captain dad]

NJI and NJA Merger Official / And Increased Senior NJA Pay Scales

It's true. More money and Merger. Life is good.

Discuss...

NJI guys, what are your feelings about all of this? Good, bad or indifferent?

 

[wanttofly]

All GIV/V FO's after 10/21/08 will be from the NJA senority list, 10/21/10 all PIC's will be filled from NJA senority list.

 

[beechjunkdvr]

I would like to be the first to welcome them to NJA. This is going to be a very stressfull time for them and I hope they realize that they can count on a professional reception from the brothers and sisters of 1108.

In my six years with NJA I have always found the NJI crews to be pleasant and professional. One of my fellow NJA pilots wrote on our message board tonight that we all represent the Netjets brand and this should only serve to solidify our position in this industry.

I usually don't post on these boards but this is just too important of a time to stand by and not get involved. I am very much loking forward to talking to NJI crews to find out how they feel about the changing world we will be sharing!

Ok, let the crazyness begin.................................

 

[x402]

It's true. More money and Merger. Life is good.

Discuss...

NJI guys, what are your feelings about all of this? Good, bad or indifferent?

Wow some details might be nice....what do you expect people to DISCUSS?

But, you're just leaping out there with no details, again.

How about letting NJI guys know there is seat protection, pay protection and several years of transition.

Please go back to being happy you can fly from home and getting a wicked good raise.

 

[NJApilot]

As a current NJA pilot, I hope that this transition (inevitable as it is) will proceed as smoothly as designed and intended by the Union/Company leadership. The merger LOA has been crafted in such a way as to make the transition process as FAIR and painless as can be possible for a merger of two pilot groups (particularly when one group is unionized and the other is not).

As with all mergers, however, there will be aches and pains - and there will certainly be some individuals who feel that they are getting the short end of the stick.

My hope is that my fellow NJA pilots will conduct themselves professionally and respectfully when discussing these issues with other NJA brothers in various pilot lounges, or when discussing the topic face-to-face with NJI pilots. Throwing the threat of a "staple job" around or shoving the new contract down the throat of an NJI brother is not going to go over very well, and will likely escalate the tension.

NJI pilots, for their part, will benefit from taking a step back and learning all that they can about our contract (2007 TA) - particularly, for them, the improved workrules and pay - and how it will impact them. My guess is that a vast majoity of NJI pilots, despite having to pay dues to the union, will be pleased with what they see...but only if they take the time to learn the facts before forming a snap decision, rather than relying on what they heard in the crew room at TEB the other day.

One thing to consider: the NJA/NJI merger is all but inevitable - it's no longer a question of IF, but WHEN. Santulli/Rosenthal recognize this fact and have made a very smart business move with this LOA. The LOA smoothly paves the road ahead (vs. taking the rocky path of the legal system, and all that goes along with that - hostility, morale, etc) and, as icing on the cake, the LOA does nothing but help to ensure that the 2007 TA passes.

One company - one pilot group - one contract. A combined pilot force, above all else, creates one HELL of a powerful bargaining unit. What else needs to be said on this?

Lastly, the NJI pilots should find some additional comfort in the fact that we (NJA pilots) will likely soon (after the results of the TA) begin the process of becoming an in-house union, leaving the Teamsters in our dust (and pocketing the $100,000+/month in dues we pay to the National office, for NOTHING in return). Paying dues to an in-house union (vs. a large organization such as the Teamsters) is a much easier pill to swallow.

Just my 2 cents worth....

 

[NJApilot]

Wow some details might be nice....what do you expect people to DISCUSS?

But, you're just leaping out there with no details.

How about letting NJI guys know there is seat protection, pay protection and several years of transition.

Please go back to being happy you can fly from home.

I will try to post some details for you here, after I download the document.

In short, there is seat protection, pay protection and several years allowed for transition. The goal for full integration is November 2010.

Starting in Nov. 2008, all NJI F/Os will come from NJA (in order to help the transition).

Between now and November 2010, 1/3 of the captain upgrades will continue to come from NJA - the same as it is today.

I will post more details later. I believe that for a merger of two pilot groups, this is about as close to win-win as can be achieved.

 

[x402]

I will try to post some details for you here, after I download the document.

In short, there is seat protection, pay protection and several years allowed for transition. The goal for full integration is November 2010.

Starting in Nov. 2008, all NJI F/Os will come from NJA (in order to help the transition).

Between now and November 2010, 1/3 of the captain upgrades will continue to come from NJA - the same as it is today.

I will post more details later. I believe that for a merger of two pilot groups, this is about as close to win-win as can be achieved.

I'm wasn't posting for you Njapilot, the details will get to the NJI guys soon enough. My post was directed to Capt Dad who always has something to say. Starting this thread without details is bush league, at best.
He goes on and on about decorum in a recent post and tosses this fish on the floor hoping the NJI guys know the details of what came out of the negotiations TONIGHT.

As I said, he's happy to be here and should leave it at that. More money, easier commute.
NJI ?!?!?! will that change Capt dad's vote? I don't think so.

 

[netjetwife]

X402, you won't have to move to one of the 100 bases. NJI pilots will be grandfathered into their current bases. I think you'll find the work rules beneficial. A peaceful integration is best for all concerned and sooner, rather than later, makes sense in this new era of cooperation. Best wishes to all for a smooth transition and a friendly integration! NJW

 

[NJApilot]

SELECTED EXCERPTS FROM THE LOA (THESE RELATE MORE TO NJA PILOTS):​

A. Letter of Agreement for NJA Crewmember Movement to NJI​

1. NJA crewmembers will be offered on the basis of NJA seniority at least one-third of the NJI G-IV posted Captain vacancies, excluding Instructor, Check Airman, and Management position vacancies, and at least one-half of the NJI First Officer G-IV posted vacancies.​

2. Effective November 21, 2008, NJA crewmembers will be offered on the basis of NJA seniority all NJI First Officer G-IV posted vacancies. NJA crewmembers bidding for NJI Captain or First Officer positions must have two (2) or more years of service at NJA and must meet the minimum hiring requirements of NJI (i.e., 5000 Total Flight Hours, an FAA First Class Medical, and an ATP with multiengine land certification).​

a. In the event an insufficient number of NJA crewmembers accept posted NJI First Officer vacancies, the Company shall allow the next NJA new hire who meets the NJI hiring criteria to transfer to NJI immediately after his hire at NJA. The parties acknowledge and agree that NJA in such cases shall not provide a NJA type rating to the new hire crewmember.​

3. The posted vacancies at NJI are for the G-IV positions. All pilots at NJI will initially fill G-IV positions (e.g., Captain or First Officer). For every vacancy that is filled in the G-V (encompassing the Gulfstream 450, G-V, and Gulfstream 550), there will be a corresponding new vacancy available in the G-IV.​

4. Transferring NJA crewmembers awarded NJI Captain positions will be seat-locked at NJI for four (4) years. Transferring NJA crewmembers awarded NJI FO positions will be seat-locked at NJI for three (3) years. NJA pilots who transition to NJI must satisfy the seat lock before bidding for a G-V position. Thereafter, Captain opportunities in the G-V will be awarded based on VSL Seniority to Captains in the G-IV.​

5. NJA crewmembers awarded an NJI Captain or First Officer position will be paid according to the appropriate NJA base 7 & 7 wage tables established in Section 27 of the 2007 Basic Agreement based on their NJA date of hire.​

6. NJA crewmembers employed by NJI will retain and accrue NJA seniority and will have retreat rights to NJA, subject to the seat locks in Paragraph 4, above, and the provisions of Paragraphs 10 and 11, below.​

7. NJA crewmembers who transfer to NJI employment are subject to NJI’s training process and training requirements and work rules.​

8. NJA crewmembers moving to NJI will receive employment benefits at NJI substantially equivalent to those at NJA. The parties stipulate that the employment benefits provided by NJI at the time of ratification of the 2007 Basic Agreement are substantially equivalent to those set forth in the 2007 Basic Agreement for NJA crewmembers.​

9. Notwithstanding the provisions of Paragraphs 1 – 8, above, NJI reserves the right to hire Captains and First Officers directly into NJI in the event a marketing/sales opportunity is facilitated by this commitment or as a result of an obligation which results in a closed sale. For example: NetJets displaces the flight department of Corporation “X” by selling fractional shares and hires the Corporation’s pilots as an element of the transaction.​

10. NJA crewmembers who accept positions at NJI pursuant to this Letter of Agreement will remain as active Local 1108 members consistent with Section 11 of the 2007 Basic Agreement in order to retain and accrue seniority.​

[continued...]​

 

[x402]

X402, you won't have to move to one of the 100 bases. NJI pilots will be grandfathered into their current bases. I think you'll find the work rules beneficial. A peaceful integration is best for all concerned and sooner, rather than later, makes sense in this new era of cooperation. Best wishes to all for a smooth transition and a friendly integration! NJW

Ah, you're right about that, I'm a HBA grandfathered pilot. Been at NJA longer than your husband, who I have a great deal of respect for. I just have a difficult time listening to the ramblings of our new guys (ie Capt Dad) go on and on about how great this IBB will be and then start threads that can do nothing but worry the very people we need to engage in a POSITIVE manner.

Capt Dad, needs to say thank you I got here just in time. That's all, no lectures, no BS, good timing on his part. I wish I had been so smart when I came here 7 years ago.

PS I love the Blue Mountain cards....thank you

 

[NJApilot]

MORE SELECTED EXCERPTS (THESE PERTAIN MORE TO THE NJI PILOTS):​

B. Crewmember Protections Following Recognition of a Single Transportation System​

1. The Company may elect to resolve the single carrier issue described in LOA 01-001 by recognizing NJA and NJI as a single transportation system at any time prior to (a) a ruling by the National Mediation Board that NJA and NJI constitute a single transportation system or (b) November 21, 2010, whichever is earlier. The Company will simultaneously provide written notice (a “recognition notice”) to the Union that it has recognized NJI as part of a single transportation system. The provisions of Paragraphs 2 - 5, below, will have no application if the Company does not recognize NJA and NJI as a single transportation system within the time period allowed by this Paragraph.​

2. In the event that the Company exercises the election and provided the recognition notice, the parties will promptly commence integration of the NJA and NJI Seniority Lists into a single NetJets Aviation, Inc. Pilot Seniority List established in accordance with LOA 01-011. There will be no system flush or removal of pilots from their positions.​

3. NJA and NJI may operate separately under the terms of this LOA through and until November 21, 2010. The Company may terminate separate carrier status and commence operations as a single transportation system prior to November 10, 2010 by sending a second written notice (“final integration notice”) to the Union. The provisions of Part A will remain in effect until such time as (a) the Company provides the final integration notice described in this Paragraph; or (b) November 21, 2010, whichever is earlier. Any Seat Locks incurred pursuant to Paragraph A.4 will convert to Equipment Locks as established in Paragraph B.4.f. and continue for their original duration; provided, that no Seat Lock converted to an Equipment Lock pursuant to this Paragraph will extend beyond November 21, 2012.​

4. Subject to the following conditions, the terms and conditions of the 2007 Basic Agreement will apply to all crewmembers on the NetJets Aviation, Inc. Pilot Seniority List, including those at NJI, at the time of the final integration notice or November 21, 2010, whichever is earlier:​

a. There will be no system flush or removal of pilots from their positions.​

b. NJA and NJI will not offer positions on the 15-Day Flex Schedule described in subsection 19.1(C) to crewmembers operating either the G-IV or a successor Gulfstream aircraft. For purposes of this LOA, a “successor Gulfstream aircraft” includes the Gulfstream 450, G-V, Gulfstream 550, and any other flightattended Gulfstream aircraft.​

c. NJA and NJI crewmembers employed by NJI will not suffer a reduction in pay as a result of the recognition of NJA and NJI as a single transportation system and will receive annual wage increases commensurate with annual wage increases received by an NJA crewmember receiving similar pay at the time such pay protection is initiated. A crewmember receiving pay protection pursuant to this subparagraph will forfeit the right to such pay protection in the event that he bids and is awarded a position in an aircraft other than either the G-IV or a successor Gulfstream aircraft.​

d. All posted vacancies in G-IV aircraft will be bid and awarded on the basis of seniority.​

e. All posted vacancies in the G-V aircraft and any successor Gulfstream aircraft will be filled on the basis of seniority only from among those crewmembers holding positions in either the G-IV or successor Gulfstream aircraft.​

i. Captain vacancies in the G-V and successor Gulfstream aircraft will be filled only from among those crewmembers holding Captain positions in the G-IV or successor Gulfstream aircraft.​

ii. If an insufficient number of non-locked Captains in the GIV or successor Gulfstream aircraft bid for a position posted pursuant to Paragraph B.4.e, the Company will waive Equipment Locks for Captains in the G-IV and successor Gulfstream aircraft and repost the vacancy. If, after waiving Equipment Locks pursuant to this subparagraph, there are still an insufficient number of bidders, the Company will repost and award the vacancy on the basis of seniority.​

f. Gulfstream Equipment and Program Locks​

i. A crewmember who is awarded a G-IV aircraft vacancy, other than a crewmember described in subparagraph (ii) below, will incur a twenty-four (24) month Gulfstream Equipment Lock in the G-IV and a sixty (60) month Gulfstream Program Lock. The Gulfstream Program Lock incurred pursuant to this subparagraph will run concurrently with the Gulfstream Equipment Lock described above and will prevent the crewmember for a period of sixty (60) months from bidding and being awarded a seniority-based vacancy in any aircraft other than the G-IV or a successor Gulfstream aircraft.​

ii. A crewmember holding a position in the G-IV or a successor Gulfstream aircraft who is awarded a seniority-based vacancy in a subsequent Gulfstream aircraft will incur a thirty-six (36) month Gulfstream Equipment Lock, which will run concurrently with any Gulfstream Program Lock remaining in effect at the time of the award.​

iii. Any Seat Locks in effect at the time NJA and NJI commence operations as a single transportation system will convert to Equipment Locks and continue for their original duration; provided, that no Seat Lock converted to an Equipment Lock pursuant to this Paragraph will extend beyond November 21, 2012.​

g. The parties agree that no crewmember will be displaced from his existing base airport solely as a result of resolution of the single carrier issue described in Paragraph B.1.​

[continued...]

...​

 

[Dr Pepper]

Ah, you're right about that, I'm a HBA grandfathered pilot. Been at NJA longer than your husband, who I have a great deal of respect for. I just have a difficult time listening to the ramblings of our new guys (ie Capt Dad) go on and on about how great this IBB will be and then start threads that can do nothing but worry the very people we need to engage in a POSITIVE manner.

Capt Dad, needs to say thank you I got here just in time. That's all, no lectures, no BS, good timing on his part. I wish I had been so smart when I came here 7 years ago.

PS I love the Blue Mountain cards....thank you

I think NJW was talking about the grandfathering of HBAs to the NJI folks, not NJA HBAers

I am new, not Capt Dad, but will say I got on at the right time. So far, I have backed the right horse. I am also stoked about this LOA and the protection (from NJE and NJ whatever) in Section 30. This is huge for supporting this IBB.

 

[netjetwife]

DrP, you are correct, but I made the mistake of assuming that X402 is from NJI--just because he stood up for their right to information. :blush: Speaking of...good job providing that NJApilot! Saves me from having to risk the wrath of my critic(s) to do that for the NJI pilots...

Thanks for the kind words, X402 (always repeated to my husband who appreciates feedback on his work) and also for the encouragement about the cards. I was already thinking that I should post a special card to the NJI pilots-- your positive feedback is all the encouragement needed. On that subject...it's entirely understandable that both groups will experience some trepidation in the beginning. Even those who have long wanted an integration can still be nervous about how it will all work out. I think this is one of those situations where the right attitude can overcome lots of growing pains.

 

[NJAPLT]

I want to say welcome aboard to all our brothers (and sisters) over at NJI, I believe we will both benefit from the Scope and other protections both NJI and NJA pilots will share upon integration as a single company.

 

[notaNJApilot]

well, this will be fun. what does this LOA mean for the workers at Hilton Head (scheduling/HR/etc)?

is this LOA official yet?

 

[Mach92]

well, this will be fun. what does this LOA mean for the workers at Hilton Head (scheduling/HR/etc)?

is this LOA official yet?

If the IBB vote is ratified then it is a done deal. It also states they can operate from SC. However do not be surprised when the entire operation is moved back to Columbus.

 

[YankeeEcho]

It's true. More money and Merger. Life is good.

Discuss...

NJI guys, what are your feelings about all of this? Good, bad or indifferent?

Exactly what 'announcement' was made yesterday that made this 'official'?

 

[gunfyter]

Exactly what 'announcement' was made yesterday that made this 'official'?

Nothing is official until the votes are counted... and then as I read this LOA... the company has the option to merge NJA and NJI.

If they want to extend the contract to 2016... practically that is what they will have to do.

IMO...Passage of the proposal is "in the bag", as they say.

 

[Mach92]

This will all be done by 2010 or sooner.

NJI pilots get a raise

Bridgeway Bob will be out soon to announce for the company.

 

[YankeeEcho]

Nothing is official until the votes are counted... and then as I read this LOA... the company has the option to merge NJA and NJI.

So . . . . . the bottom line is that nothing really changed yesterday that justified starting this thread. The new TA that has been distributed - that may very well be voted upon positively by the membership - STILL has to be accepted by Woodbridge (from the way I understand it) and MAY lead to a merger. Therefore, the statements here are again heart-felt, fervent, passionate and persuasive - but, from the facts and timing - specious.

 

[Mach92]

So . . . . . the bottom line is that nothing really changed yesterday that justified starting this thread. The new TA that has been distributed - that may very well be voted upon positively by the membership - STILL has to be accepted by Woodbridge (from the way I understand it) and MAY lead to a merger. Therefore, the statements here are again heart-felt, fervent, passionate and persuasive - but, from the facts and timing - specious.

Wrong! Who do you think WROTE THE LOA?

Woodbrige, RTS and his attoneys did

Who signed it? RTS

Who lied to you over the years and said this will not happen ..........? Hmmmmm RTS maybe?

It's over we are ONE group come 2010

 

[gunfyter]

Looks inevitable.... but jumping the gun a little.

"Writing is on the wall"

I think it will be a good deal for everyone.

 

[x402]

So . . . . . the bottom line is that nothing really changed yesterday that justified starting this thread. The new TA that has been distributed - that may very well be voted upon positively by the membership - STILL has to be accepted by Woodbridge (from the way I understand it) and MAY lead to a merger. Therefore, the statements here are again heart-felt, fervent, passionate and persuasive - but, from the facts and timing - specious.

Well yes there has been a change since yesterday, there now is a LOA accepted by the Union and Mgt, that now needs to be approved by the Membership. Woodbridge already has accepted the LOA. We unwashed line pilots get to vote yea or nay.
The tweeks to the IBB TA in the last few days will make it more paletable to the senior NJA pilots and ensure it's passage come 11-20.

 

[Diesel]

The company and the union wrote the loa together. So it has been accepted by the company. It has to be accepted by the union in the form of a vote.

NJI can still operate independently, different uniforms, okatie headquarters, and such. Just over time there are steps that transition the nji pilot group into the nja pilot group.

There are fences though. Only 1/3rd of the captains come from NJA. Moving to the gulfstream product requires a 24month equipment lock and a 60 month gulfstream lock. You have to also go to the GIV before you can move to the GV, 550, 450 and then that movement can only come from the IV.

NJI pay and hba's are protected.

No sleep for you x402?

 

[x402]

The company and the union wrote the loa together. So it has been accepted by the company. It has to be accepted by the union in the form of a vote.

NJI can still operate independently, different uniforms, okatie headquarters, and such. Just over time there are steps that transition the nji pilot group into the nja pilot group.

There are fences though. Only 1/3rd of the captains come from NJA. Moving to the gulfstream product requires a 24month equipment lock and a 60 month gulfstream lock. You have to also go to the GIV before you can move to the GV, 550, 450 and then that movement can only come from the IV.

NJI pay and hba's are protected.

No sleep for you x402?

Got my 6 hrs, good to see you last night.

 

[CastofThousands]

All,

I believe there is one critical component that must be highlighted in the company’s option to recognize a single transportation system, and that is the fact no third party such as the NMB or arbitrator would be able to screw up what should be addressed directly between the company, union, and employees.

It should be recognized by all that if the company elects to recognize a single transportation system under the terms of LOA 01-013 it protects the NJA, NJLA, and NJI pilots in the most fair and equitable manner while establishing job security, wages, benefits, and working conditions that as a whole, top the industry more now than ever before. How would NJA or NJI pilots react to an arbitrators ruling such as the US Airways/America West (East-West) ruling? Nobody ever knows who ends up on top. How would that affect the brand and work environment at NetJets when the level of professional courtesy and recognition, pilot to pilot, today is admirable. How does working under the terms and conditions of the IBB proposal harm any NetJets pilot; whether NJA, NJLA, or NJI? It doesn’t. It’s an exceptional proposal.

The NetJets pilots union has no alternative but to advocate and advance the bargaining unit’s interests in new career opportunities. Nothing agreed to by the union and company resolves the single carrier dispute unless the company serves notice and elects to recognize a single transportation system; which the union has no option but to advance through the NMB processes of a single carrier filing or future bargaining.

When one steps back and takes an objective look, there is no doubt it’s in all parties interest for the company to recognize a single transportation system; one company, one seniority list, one contract - the best company, the best opportunities, and the best contract. That being said, there is nothing that forces the company to do so – short of an NMB single carrier filing or future bargaining. And, the distinct positions are still there; the company says they are not a single transportation system, while the union says it is. That has not changed.

What has changed? The company now has the option to avoid all the fighting, contentious seniority integration battles, and future bargaining of terms and conditions at NJA and NJI. The company now has a fully developed option to choose 8 or more years of labor peace where the focus is on the future growth and development of the business. Not labor unrest and infighting. This is a telling moment in NetJets history and I am confident the pilots, all pilots, will recognize it’s best to move forward, not look back, and it’s far better to be working together than to distracted by internal labor disputes.

Sincerely,

 

[FLYLOW22]

Long time coming...

Welcome home.

Everything I have seen on the table defies even the definition of a "good merger". Of course, all I know previous to NetJets is US Airways. The definitionof a "good merger, according to airline guys is one in which both sides get equally screwed.

All I have seen in the LOA points to a really good integration; one that can/will truly bring us all together as a cohesive group.

The Virtual Seniority List with the combination of NJI/NJA pilots is based on Date of Hire. I couldn't think of a better method of integration personally.

We have always been one company so cries (not that I've heard many) for a staple job or an asset transfer or "we are the surviving carrier" are bunk.

If I chose to look at the integration as a loss for me, I'd cry that "I lost 170 numbers sliding from 1,500 to near 1,700". I couldn't feel differently... To me, I feel like I'm gaining hundreds of professional Brothers and Sisters.

I know it's early yet but... Welcome.

 

[charley varrick]

CastofThousands,

That was far too cogent to be posted on FI. You had better remove it posthaste!!

 

[FLYLOW22]

All,



It should be recognized by all that if the company elects to recognize a single transportation system under the terms of LOA 01-013 it protects the NJA, NJLA, and NJI pilots in the most fair and equitable manner while establishing job security, wages, benefits, and working conditions that as a whole, top the industry more now than ever before. How would NJA or NJI pilots react to an arbitrators ruling such as the US Airways/America West (East-West) ruling? Nobody ever knows who ends up on top.
Sincerely,

Amen Cast.

Nobody even knows who screwed who over at the US East/West nightmare.

There have been so many over the years, who could keep count. I can tell you from personal experience.

I feel for those guys (both sides) over there but that is them, this is us.

Nobody wants an arbitrator to dictate terms. All sides lose when it happens.

This (NJI-A) is a good deal.

 

[CastofThousands]

My sole request is that NetJets (all) pilots take the high road and reinforce the high standards of professionalism that is expected. We can't follow the profession as much as we need redirect it within our segment of the industry, which requires setting the example when presented the opportunity.

Sincerely,