AirTran T.A. = Vote NO

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

I see your point. However, I wouldn't put it past this company to play some dirty pool to get what they want. I'm sure I'm not alone in this thought. Lear was/is the most vocal opponent of these concessionary TA's and I can see them wanting him gone at any cost.

Right or wrong it comes down to this...in my opinion Lear has much more credibility than the company does.

That's your decision. You can side with whom ever you like. I'm not picking a side at all. I'm just sick of the disinformation (regardless of who from). Like I said, I don't know what Lear did, or didn't do. I'm sick of the emotional reactions and the playground politics (regardless of who from, and there are about 8 little cliques in that regard). Your opinion is fine.....but facts and evidence are what count, not opinions.

Lot's of people thought Hitler had a lot of credibility too, at first; he proved that not to be quite true in the end, didn't he? Before you give me a bunch of crap, I'm not comparing Lear and Hitler....I'm just saying sometimes things aren't always what they seem.

 

[Lear70]

If Lear was a smart man he'd shut his trap on this forum and let his lawyer do the talking from here on out - even though I'm dying to hear the story and read the letter.

Give 'em hell bro. It's obvious you are a target.

Gup

Yeah, attorney already bit my head off today for posting here again. It's hard not to get suckered in when people attack your honor and ethics.

Thanks to those who have and continue to support those of us who are having to go through this. The NPA is working daily on my case, though I can't speak to anyone else's case, and I hope to be back sooner rather than later.

Regards,

 

[ironspud]

Thanks to those who have and continue to support those of us who are having to go through this. The NPA is working daily on my case,
Regards,

If the NPA can make this work for these folks then many FL'ers should rethink the support they can give back (to the NPA). (Being a non-union kind of guy, I can't believe I just said that)...but best wishes from a lurker. Sad thing is that FL is my favorite airline between a certain SE city and MKE.... but now won't be for a while. I'll take (ugh) Delta. Blue skies Lear, and to the others as well.

 

[FlyWolf]

Sorry to hear the bad news Lear, best of luck to you.

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

Only thing I do know, is Lear has done more for this pilot group then our union ever did.

 

[PCL_128]

Have ANY of you guys considered that MAYBE there just MIGHT be more to the story than any of you know? That you don't have ALL the information to act the judge and jury here?

I've known Lear for a long time. He and I have disagreed on different things at times, but I've never seen any sign of dishonesty on his part. I've always known him to be honest, ethical, and principled. I have no doubt that he's being honest on this.

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

I've known Lear for a long time. He and I have disagreed on different things at times, but I've never seen any sign of dishonesty on his part. I've always known him to be honest, ethical, and principled. I have no doubt that he's being honest on this.

That may be. And don't get me wrong, I sympathize with his financial situation. It has to suck. I never said he was being dishonest either. I know if it were me, my story would certainly be biased towards making my case. Again, I'm not saying he's guilty of anything. I'm simply really getting tired of the "it's a slam dunk, I hope he get's $2 billion dollars in a settlement" crowd. IF he is proved innocent, then good for him. He deserves his job and deserves to be made whole. My point....since none of us are personally involved, nor could possibly know all the relevant facts, don't be so fast to pass judgment.

 

[Longhorn]

I've known Lear for a long time. He and I have disagreed on different things at times, but I've never seen any sign of dishonesty on his part. I've always known him to be honest, ethical, and principled. I have no doubt that he's being honest on this.

I agree with everything that PCL has to say on this. Lear is a very good personal friend of mine and I am speachless as to what has happened with his situation. He is a very passionate person and very honest person. I have no doubt that he is being 100% honest and making the correct choices with this. Its too bad that he is being treated like this....

 

[XJohXJ]

Innocent until proven guilty applies to the defendant, not the prosecutor. There is no other way to apply it.

It applies to Lear, the defendant. It does not apply to the company or the insurance company, the prosecutors. If the system was fair, the company would have to prove their case before taking action. As it stands now, they can take life-impacting actions based on mere unproven allegations.

Innocent until proven guilty exists to protect the defendant.

The company imposed their punishment BEFORE proving their case. That is a gross travesty of justice. That is why people are angry about this. If the company had actually legally proven anything, there would not be such an uproar. That is also why Lear is almost certain to win.

 

[spitfire1500]

Please quote the letter EXACTLY or fax it to me. Hard to reply without EXACT context.

Worked a trip the 3rd, 4th, and 5th. Injury happened on the night of the 3rd but didn't hurt bad when I did it (muscle stuff sometimes doesn't show up for a day or two afterwards, makes it hard to report IMMEDIATELY which they complained about also as a violation of the company policy and procedures handbook).

Next day complained to the CA that it was hurting (that was Day 2). Day 3, final day of trip, hurt bad but sucked it up to do 2 legs back to base with lots of Advil. That was the 5th.

6th was really bad, 7 wasn't any better so I tried to see my doctor in the afternoon, but he wouldn't see me. Said there was some conflict of insurance deal for OJI covered events and the second I said "hurt it at work" they wouldn't talk to me.

Next day wasn't better so I finally called "uncle" and got in touch with Floy. Took 3 MORE days for them to finally get me in to see one of their doctors... Not a fun experience.

Lear I wouldn't discuss any of this on web boards if there is going to be court litigation over this. I know at a certain airline from my past web board postings were used against a CEO in a court case. I know its easy to say from my position(not at AT) but fight on!!!..the whole industry is following the contract fight there.

 

[Critter717]

Lear,

Brad D. who has extensive experience and whose past isn't as "colorful" as some people paint.

What????????????? If a pilot or FA was showing questionable content to passengers would that be ok?

I like Brad D and have found him to be a very honest and straightforward person the last several months and a trusted ally during the slander campaign from the current NC, but there's just too large of a hangup from the senior pilots who were here during that "incident" that would get in the way of solidarity.





Were you here then Lear? Have you read the IAC report? How much was spent to REMOVE Brad, Chris T., and gasp...Dave P.?

The NPA Board is an entity that represents the pilots remember? Brad, by his own admission, displayed porongraphic material during a board meeting in the presence of not only a female office manager (who later won a hostile workplace suit against Chris T.) but also a female ATTORNEY! Brad also admits to having a camera in the board room but denies he was looking to expand his "upskirt" photo library. The NPA spent several thousand dollars to obtain legitimate liceneses for software that Brad had installed on NPA computers. We can't find anyone better?

Please forgive my Hangup. Any person that holds a position within NPA should have behavior that is above reproach. Brad has proven himself to be a liability. With a pilot group exceeding 1600, I am continually amazed at the resistance to utilize new faces rather than the usual suspects.

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

The company imposed their punishment BEFORE proving their case. That is a gross travesty of justice. That is why people are angry about this. If the company had actually legally proven anything, there would not be such an uproar. That is also why Lear is almost certain to win.

Really? You know this for a FACT?

 

[Carl_Spackler]

Innocent until proven guilty applies to the defendant, not the prosecutor. There is no other way to apply it.

It applies to Lear, the defendant. It does not apply to the company or the insurance company, the prosecutors. If the system was fair, the company would have to prove their case before taking action. As it stands now, they can take life-impacting actions based on mere unproven allegations.

Innocent until proven guilty exists to protect the defendant.

The company imposed their punishment BEFORE proving their case. That is a gross travesty of justice. That is why people are angry about this. If the company had actually legally proven anything, there would not be such an uproar. That is also why Lear is almost certain to win.

Innocent until proven guilty is for accused criminals, not for civil cases. In this case Rich will be the Plaintiff and AT will be the Defendant, not the other way around. Civil cases are decided by "preponderance of evidence". In other words, is it more likely or unlikely that Rich was fired for what he is accused of doing. Luckily it doesn't have to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

My guess is that AT will have an uphill battle persuading the jury (if it is ever heard) that Rich was fired for a workers comp issue if criminal charges were never filed.

 

[Ty Webb]

Really? You know this for a FACT?

Hey, Live Dumb/Fly Dumb,

I am getting the distinct impression that:

A)You are a Management toadie, or

B) Someone dropped you on your head at a very young age, and from a very great height.

Most of us have seen enough from the Company and from Rich to know what's going on. You don't need a weatherman to tell you when it's raining.

Show some solidarity with your fellow pilots. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

Over and Out.

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

Hey, Live Dumb/Fly Dumb,

I am getting the distinct impression that either you are:

A) A management toad, or

B) someone dropped you on your head at a very young age, and from a very great height.

Most of us have seen enough from the Company and from Rich to know what's going on. You don't need a weatherman to tell you when it's raining.

Show some solidarity with your fellow pilots. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

Over and Out.

You're wrong about both, and obnoxious as usual.

This is not about solidarity if Lear is in the wrong. Last I heard, the tapes haven't been released for public viewing. Do you fly your airplane this way? Knowing a small PART of the info to make your decision? Not open to the fact that there MIGHT be an alternative? Pretty closed-minded if so.

I never suggested we hang Lear. I'm suggesting there is a LOT about this that NONE of us know, certainly NOT enough to KNOW who's in the wrong or right....only enough to react to our emotions, and a small part of the whole story.

 

[PCL_128]

FlyFastLiveSlow, even if the allegations are completely accurate (I'm sure they're not, but just for argument sake), termination is still not appropriate for a non-probationary pilot on a first-time offense. If he had a history of questionable sick calls, then that would be different, but I know for a fact that that's not the case. At worst, someone guilty of the accused "crimes" should have received something along the lines of a 30-day suspension. Termination for something like this is unheard of.

 

[Ty Webb]

I'm suggesting there is a LOT about this that NONE of us know, certainly NOT enough to KNOW who's in the wrong or right.....

I'm aware of the details of the situation, and it's obvious to everyone north of Orlando that Rich was singled out, targeted, and fired for his anti-TA activities.

If you really believe anything other than that, you really are one of the 10 percenters, the "sheeples". . . . the "just glad to have a job" guys that need to tell their neighbors that they're a pilot, because otherwise, they'd be just another boring, fat slob with a big watch. In other words, the "useful idiots" that management targets their mailings and other propaganda to.

Have a nice life, and make sure not to drink out of the water bottle, because you might cost the Company 50 cents, which apparently exceeds your self-worth.:erm:

 

[CitationLover]

FlyFastLiveSlow, even if the allegations are completely accurate (I'm sure they're not, but just for argument sake), termination is still not appropriate for a non-probationary pilot on a first-time offense. If he had a history of questionable sick calls, then that would be different, but I know for a fact that that's not the case. At worst, someone guilty of the accused "crimes" should have received something along the lines of a 30-day suspension. Termination for something like this is unheard of.

i'm betting they're calling it "insurance fraud" and that is their "reasoning". any type of "fraud" is a fireable offense since it is considered theft. people get fired for falsifying ACARS times as the company views that as theft as well.

pretty lame. as stated earlier, good luck lear, i hope you never have to work another day in your life.

 

[CitationLover]

I've been debriefed enough to know the situation, and it's obvious to everyone north of Orlando that Rich was singled out, targeted, and fired for his anti-TA activities.

If you really believe anything other than that, you really are one of the 10 percenters, the "sheeples". . . . the "just glad to have a job" guys that need to tell their neighbors that they're a pilot, because otherwise, they'd be just another boring, fat slob with a big watch.

Have a nice life, and make sure not to drink out of the water bottle, because you might cost the Company 50 cents, which apparently exceeds your self-worth.:erm:

ty,

sounds like you need to go back to vegas.....

 

[Ty Webb]

I used to get a kick out of the brand-new FA's on their first LAS layover, watching their faces fall as they read the sign at our layover hotel . . .

The marquee used to trumpet, "Cold beer and dirty girls!" and "Bikini Bullriding and Mudwrestling" . . . . priceless!

Although I miss it on occaision, with its green shag carpeting and fake gold fixtures, it was quite the time capsule . . . . . .that place needed a good dynamiting. . . . . .