AirTran T.A. = Vote NO

[FL717]

There is another thread on Flightinfo that is specifically addressing the con's of the "latest" TA language. I am starting this thread to encourage all AirTran Pilots to Vote.... and to VOTE NO.

I believe that the Captains at AirTran (that actually vote).... are going to split 50/50 on the vote. I believe the First Officers at AirTran are going to predominantly vote NO.

The First Officers at AirTran can control this vote.

We NEED ALL AirTran First Officers that are eligible to vote... to VOTE... and to VOTE NO..... and that will ensure a majority NO vote, and this T.A. does in fact die, and then we can press on with whatever happens next.

DO NOT be afraid of voting NO, and DO NOT give in at this point.

We have come a LONG way... and we deserve better, and we can get what we deserve. We can only get that if we INSIST on it, and one of the ways to INSIST on it is to VOTE NO.

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

Scope = NO among many other things. Let the FO voices be heard.

 

[airline#5]

Please FO's, show the industry that you believe you are worth more than far below industry standard. I am all for the fair capt pay, but it will not be funded by us.

Most FO's will not be capt's until the next contract anyway. Don't fall for the capt pay carrot they dangle in front of you. All it takes is more aircraft deferrals to make upgrade out of reach for all of us. With the Milwaukee base growth out of the question, this is a likelyhood in a effort to remain a profitable airline. This place does not have the liquidity to sustain loses. Ten bucks more an hour or so for FO's will not put this place out of business. Do not be controlled by fear. This is not a place worth working at anyway at these FO rates.

I don't know about you FO's, but I do not live a lavish life in terms of my spending. All I have are the kids to pay for, and every month I dig myself further in debt as a FO here. No savings, no real investments, just trying to feed, cloth, and educate. Industry standard FO pay would at least have me breaking even.

Please, please, vote NO!!

Please vote No!

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

If AP stays in the FO rates wont go up. He has not said anything about FO pay. But not to worry becasuse we will all be CA in three years, from AP.

 

[75M]

I believe that the Captains at AirTran (that actually vote).... are going to split 50/50 on the vote.

Really?

I think its funny how we always blame management for trying to divide and conquer the pilot group, but the second we are put in a corner we start pointing arrows at eachother.

From my perspective:

No medical for newhires for an additional month = instant NO vote

Reduction in pay for newhires = instant NO vote

Different vacation rules for CAs vs. FOs = instant NO vote

It's true that there are enough FOs to control the vote and I think that will end up deciding it, but I don't think we need to assume that the captains are going to throw the FOs under the bus.

 

[Max Eaper]

SCOPE is huge ladies and gentlemen no matter what your seniority number is! Anything over fifty seats including turboprops must be flown by pilots on our seniority list. Remember, we will be living with this contract for the next 6-7 years. I'm voting no on the TA!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm voting yes on the recalls!!!!!!!!!

 

[FL717]

It's true that there are enough FOs to control the vote and I think that will end up deciding it, but I don't think we need to assume that the captains are going to throw the FOs under the bus.

Re-read my entire post. I NEVER said or implied that Captains would "throw the First Officers under the bus".

Except for that little (incorrect) assumption you leap towards.... my point was/is EXACTLY what you wrote and apparently agree with me about about "FO's deciding the vote".

Don't make divide where there isn't.... because I certainly wasn't.

 

[PRINCE AKEEM]

I'm at the bottom with nowhere to go but up. Can't wait to vote NO again! When is the vote anyway?

 

[Lear70]

I think its funny how we always blame management for trying to divide and conquer the pilot group, but the second we are put in a corner we start pointing arrows at each other.

I believe that the Captains at AirTran (that actually vote).... are going to split 50/50 on the vote. I believe the First Officers at AirTran are going to predominantly vote NO.

I *think* he meant that he believes half the CA's are going to vote Yes, half the CA's are going to vote No, thus "split 50/50". That's one thing about the internet, it's sometimes hard to determine *intent* or *tone of voice* behind a post.

You're absolutely right though, we MUST keep from further dividing this pilot group. Solidarity MUST be enhanced as we move forward, and I believe that the vast majority of us are on the same page.

There's a couple things that haven't been touched on that have occurred to me over the last couple of days. Things that will increase F/O upgrade times:

1. Not enough aircraft orders for all the F/O's. We only have enough aircraft on order for F/O's through about the 1,400 seniority range to upgrade. If you're below this number, you absolutely MUST plan on remaining an F/O for the next 4-6 years at the very least.

2. Delivery deferrals. We have been deferring aircraft and, if it happens again, count on even further delaying your upgrade time. An extra year or more as an F/O on these new rates.

3. Merger/Acquisition. It's obvious that AAI wants to purchase or merge with another carrier; we have 2 attempts in as many years and the smart money is on another one. If it's Frontier or jetBlue or Spirit, do you really think they'll keep a 3rd fleet type? That means EVERY airbus they replace with a new 737 delivery is NO Captain upgrades for those upcoming deliveries. This means you could *possibly* get stuck as an F/O for up to a DECADE!!

I'm not saying those are all absolutely going to happen, but #1 is a simple fact unless we order more aircraft, and 2 or 3 are very likely possibilities. We absolutely MUST ensure that our F/O rates are worth working under not just for another year or two, but for the entire duration of the contract, the next negotiations, and beyond...

[/rant]

 

[Dashcaptain]

Starting Sept 1 and goes until 21st according to AP at the road show yesterday. They fixed a few things that seem to getting more onboard with the vote. AP said that we need to look at what happened to the FAs. They voted their's down and then voted on the same thing 2 years later.

I still say no!!