AirTran T.A. = Vote NO

[Britpilot]

NO vote on the way here.

 

[bendover]

Why should the new hires take a pay cut? The only group to take a cut? Aren't they airtran pilots too?
Why the hell do we have a 15 yr pay scale. It only dillutes the pay from 1-12 yrs. 15 yr pay only affects maybe 5-10% of the total pilot group. while the 300 a yr newhires count for 20% of the total group. Sounds like alan is looking out for himself and his buddies.
Why the hell isn't the signing bonus equal across the board for everyone, its not a pay rate, its a signing bonus and the last time i checked everyone has the same EQUAL One Vote per pilot. This contract even takes buddy passes from 1yr hires and forces them to wait 2yrs to BUY them. WOW! Talk about double standards.

 

[Lear70]

This contract even takes buddy passes from 1yr hires and forces them to wait 2yrs to BUY them. WOW! Talk about double standards.

Whoa, whoa... where is THAT?

Now you're gonna make me skip ahead, I'm just finishing up detailed analysis on Sec 5. for the new FULL rebuttal.

Don't tell me we FURTHER threw our new-hires under the bus...

 

[Murphy]

I sense a ground swell of "yes" votes. People are reading this one. They want the pay rates/pay raise, don't want a more radical NPA leadership, are fed up with the negotiating circus and are looking out for number one. It'll be closer than everyone thinks.

 

[Citrusflyer]

I sense a ground swell of "yes" votes. People are reading this one. They want the pay rates/pay raise, don't want a more radical NPA leadership, are fed up with the negotiating circus and are looking out for number one. It'll be closer than everyone thinks.

And, I fear, that is setting up a very, very bad scenario. One in which we barely fail this thing (less than say 80%) and the new NC will have absolutely no clout at the table upon their return next year. The company will know they don't have much more to move to get the magical 50% +1; and we'll be boxed in; already having the pilot group split via the TA (and possibly the recall) vote will not help the situation at all. All of that would all but negate any pull to start over from the old contract vice the TA (2? 3? insert version here). It needs to go down hard, or we'll all pay the price later.

If AP and MS are recalled by a plurality (as is being rumored even on this board) the new guys (when voted in) will not have any respect from management. Unless there is a skill-set out there that has yet to rise up in one of the guys rumored to be running and they can overcome a small recall vote. Everyone needs to vote on this one as well!

The only way to save ourselves from ourselves in that scenario is to elect someone not only with the brains, but the charisma, to pull us together. And, while I hope they appear, I have yet to see any signs of them as of yet.

I hope I'm wrong, but I don't get that feeling from listening to folks talk. There are many out there, despite what has been said on flightinfo, that have changed sides in this one. It is going to be very close, hence the problem!

Apathy still has a strong undercurrent in this pilot group, even with the TA/recall votes coming up. It amazes me beyond belief the low turn out for voting, at least as far as the recall. Maybe it will change, but history has not been kind to us in that respect! Everyone needs to get off their a$$, get informed, and vote!

 

[Murphy]

From informal polling, the VP may go down harder in the recall than the Pres. That says a lot about what people think about career politicians. If people vote early and vote "yes" for the TA, the Pres recall may be close. The Pres gets a lot of credit for being a good administrator but not having a handle on the pulse of the pilot group. To the next president.

Don a wig, a pair of jeans, and your favorite t-shirt and walk the concourse and get to know your pilot group. It may be enlightening and hence...a good contract.

 

[SkiFishFly]

Don't tell me we FURTHER threw our new-hires under the bus...

No they just found reverse gear and ran over them a second time just for kicks...

 

[Murphy]

I detest how new hires are thrown under the bus. Pay your dues and shut up. That's a crock of crap. UPS, Continental, and even SWA to some extent. Every time I drive to Baltimore to commute to Atlanta, I think that I could be working for SWA. But I refuse, out of principle to go inteview with them and then have to go buy a type rating. I could get a free 737 type rating from AirTran and maybe bail but that also is not the right thing to do. Somebody needs to have integrity in this industry. I've got friends with Southwest that say I lot of things are done because of decrees sent down from Dallas. Sorry boys and girls, that's the way things have always been done. Suck it up.

 

[-9Capt]

This 10yr Capt is voting no. I can name at least another 50+ that will be doing the same.

 

[UALX727]

I am voting no...

 

[jetflier]

...Vote No....don't be afraid to vote no.!...Just look at the POS contract NWA has...lowest payscale and took a big hit on SCOPE.

At NWA I fly with a lot of DC9 FO's who regret voting yes, 63% of pilots voted yes!...and may be looking at another pay-cut as NWA parks the DC9 and replaces it with another RJ at Compass or mainline RJ's.
NWA mainline RJ's, replacing the DC9's are almost another 40% cut in pay!
Sooo, hang tight and vote NO!...I wish the NWA pilot group did.

 

[Spud]

12 year... Hell no!

Easy call.

 

[Murphy]

Airtran's just another company. If it implodes, some other company will come in and take the market share. Valuejet took Eastern's cut of the pie and Airtran has just built on it. It ain't rocket science. Atlanta is a big enough city to handle two carriers.

 

[Old Crow]

New hire reserves will take a huge pay cut. 42.75 x 100 hrs = $4275
42.75 x 70 = I'm going to FedEx.

No.

 

[FIREMAN]

Why should the new hires take a pay cut? The only group to take a cut? Aren't they airtran pilots too? ......
This contract even takes buddy passes from 1yr hires and forces them to wait 2yrs to BUY them. WOW! Talk about double standards.

bendover please reread the TA. Any pilot in class before DOS stays at current pay. Buddy pass by phone after two years. Less then two years you must use the intra or internet for buddy pass. There are plenty of other things to vote no over.

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

We need to get the word out. I keep talking to guys who think that the RJs are limited to 25 planes. Once I explain that it can be as high as 70 the day we sign, and can go up from there. They almost sh!t there pants.

 

[AV80R]

I'm at the bottom with nowhere to go but up. Can't wait to vote NO again! When is the vote anyway?

Are you even allowed to vote bubba?

 

[Lear70]

We need to get the word out. I keep talking to guys who think that the RJs are limited to 25 planes. Once I explain that it can be as high as 70 the day we sign, and can go up from there. They almost sh!t there pants.

Absolutely.

There's SO much that's in there... With the new-hires being vote-elligible and not having been here long enough to know what's IN the current contract and what we're losing, we need to start with them.

We then need to target those that we're flying with. Print the copies of the bulletpoint rebuttal and pay comparison and take them with you on trips. It's only 3 double-sided pages, doesn't take more than 10-15 minutes to read and analyze, and is the perfect intro to get them to go to the website and download the FULL rebuttal which should be up by Labor Day.

Anyone who wants to volunteer to go to road shows, I'll be MORE than happy to send you a ton of stickers with COLOR printouts of the graphs (easier to read), just email me at [email protected] with your address.

We NEED to get people educated. They're selling this thing as a BIG improvement then comparing it to the last T.A., not the current CBA. I don't want to lose this thing just because of the NPA's lies by misdirection.

Thanks to those who are helping spread the word! Your efforts very well might make the difference, so don't pass up an opportunity to professionally persuade some of your fellow pilots!

 

[Joey Bayonne]

I have not reached this point in reading the TA, but has anyone else heard about a provision in the contract that allows the company use FOQUA data for disiplinary action? Please tell me this is not true!

 

[FIREMAN]

I have not reached this point in reading the TA, but has anyone else heard about a provision in the contract that allows the company use FOQUA data for disiplinary action? Please tell me this is not true!

NOT true. Page 160 of the PFD or page 13-8 of the TA states (info from FDR or CVR shall not be used for.... discipline or discharge.

Flight data recorder is defined as ANY device, equipment or system... that collects stores or transmits flight info...)

The use of FOQUA and ASCP data is based upon the mutually agreed upon Quality Assurance Programs(QAP). The QAPs are not part of the CBA, but a seprate agreement. That means no change.