Flexjet...

[AcroTim]

How much free time do you get at your layover destination? I am considering making the jump from Charter to the Fracs. How does this work in the Fractional world?

 

[hammer2]

Anywhere from 10 hours to 144 hrs.

 

[Wiggums]

Very little. The business model works by utilizing the crews and aircraft as much as possible. Flexjet has low ratios when it comes to aircraft-to-customer and pilot-to-aircraft so their whole system works hard. Their is also no contractual protection from calling you out early when the day before you were told about a late trip. This is a problem when you plan for a 4pm wheels up time and they call you at 4am with a new assignment. Remember, you are basically on reserve everyday, you can't even plan on anything the night before.

After a five or six day I was more tired then doing 10-11 days flying freight. The policy of allowing up to 16 hours on the last day was almost always abused and they never seemed to understand at the Waterview that airlining back to JFK would always go late. I'm sure the Flex guys will chime in and say the quitters were lazy and didn't like work but my friends and NetJets and the airlines weren't working that hard and they were getting paid better then I was.

 

[rjcap]

Floating Rest Period.

You finish at 5 pm or 6 pm they can call you in 8 hours and have you be at the a/c in another 2.

That means you go to bed at 9 PM with an expectation of getting a call at 3 AM. Happens all the time.

 

[Ultra Grump]

Prospective rest, anyone?

 

[skyismyoffice]

Floating Rest Period.

You finish at 5 pm or 6 pm they can call you in 8 hours and have you be at the a/c in another 2.

That means you go to bed at 9 PM with an expectation of getting a call at 3 AM. Happens all the time.

Not to highjack the thread but...reading this makes me remember that we have accomplished some things at FLOPs since joining 1108. The 'floating' duty day definitely existed until we all agreed that it probably wasn't very legal (we're 135). Now I don't answer/respond to the Blackberry until my duty on time. If I'm told I get 18 hours of rest - that's what I get.

 

[TrumanSparks]

Wiggums is correct. I enjoyed FlexJet but the the QOL could really suck sometimes. It would easily take your first day off to recover. I've been very fortunate to get hired by a 121 outfit. I work hard, but the QOL is far beyond that of the Fracs. I highly recomend 121, if just for the work rules alone.

 

[Av8tor]

If you want to work hard, get min rest and stay at Holiday Inns, than you will love working at FLEX. Oh and that 16 hours on your last day is a slap on your face, it happens all the time. Floating rest must stop at Flex, give it a rest already your losing guys all the time. I am sure that is there biggest gripe. Attrition is so high they can not crew the aircrafts they have now, plus they are growing, who suffers the pilots. 13-14 hours every day.......

 

[walshsfly]

Can't you all just bitch about something you don't know about to your pillow so I don't have to read about it. First of all I have never worked more than 16 on my last day, My last few rotations I didn't even work 6 hours on my last day. Yes we have floating rest sort of, but at least we can get more than 10 hours before we have to go back to the airport to sit for 8 plus hours. Like NJ does.

Now Just remember you work for a company that is out to make money not make you happy. Even the worst flying job is better than working 60 hours a week and only getting paid for 40, and sitting in rush hour traffic for an hour each way everyday.

And no I am not management I am a pilot sitting in a hotel room while my plane is in maintenance instead of sitting at the airport because my contract says I have too.

 

[EdAtTheAirport]

Thanks Walsh. I have the same thing to say. In the 6 day rotation that I just finished, we spent nearly 2 whole days sitting in the Montreal Airport Hilton - concierge level lounge and all. We called dispatch and asked to go somewhere because we were getting bored at the hotel, needed stock, and had training to finish. We ended up at the Boston Airport Hilton, a gorgeous place with a beautiful lobby, cool restaurant/lounge, flat screen in the room.

My last day was 12 1/2 hours, realizing that the last 3 of those was snoozing in seat 11F, made possible by AA Platinum status.

Holiday Inns? Maybe in small markets like Rock Springs, or Paducah, or West Memphis. Darned near every pilot in this company is Hilton Diamond within 6 months. My Marriott points are building also - just had a $400 Marriott in Saratoga, NY. Also frequently enjoy the SJC Marriott.

I agree that I'd like a change to the floating rest period, but alternative is that 4 a.m. airport standby every day. No fractional's work rules prevent 14 up - 10 down for days on end. I'd rather sleep and take the risk of the phone call.

 

[lrtfe731]

Can't you all just bitch about something you don't know about to your pillow so I don't have to read about it. First of all I have never worked more than 16 on my last day

Oh the 16 hr day defiently exsists. I think it might depend where you live and where your rotation started. Recently I finished my 16th hr at the gate in PSP. Thankfully they flew me back too my car which was in PSP. It was a 2.0 hr drive home. So add the wake up time on the east coast and drive time, it makes for a 19 hr day.

That being said, its only at its worse during peak season. But it is also true that this is a buisness and Flexjet is definetly one of the better flying jobs out there. In my expereince I have had management go out of there way to help me and that goes along way.

 

[Fozzy]

spin zone

Yes we have floating rest sort of, but at least we can get more than 10 hours before we have to go back to the airport to sit for 8 plus hours. Like NJ does.
Does not happen all that often.
And no I am not management I am a pilot sitting in a hotel room while my plane is in maintenance instead of sitting at the airport because my contract says I have too.

Actually, it is the opposite. No plan , plane or crew, you will be in the hotel. Face it, work without a contract sucks.

 

[walshsfly]

Actually, it is the opposite. No plan , plane or crew, you will be in the hotel. Face it, work without a contract sucks.

I have seen the guys sitting at airports without a full crew or even and aircraft. I have talked to the guys on the hotel van going to sit for the day for 8 hours then repo after that. This isn't hearsay its straight from the pilots. Are some things better at NJ than at Flex, maybe. Are some things better at Flex, YES. Is a union and a contract better, Oh Hell NO.

But back to topic I have had over 24 hour layovers and I have had 10 hour. It all depends on where you are and whether or not someone wants to go somewhere. All are the same.

 

[hammer2]

Thanks Walsh. I have the same thing to say. In the 6 day rotation that I just finished, we spent nearly 2 whole days sitting in the Montreal Airport Hilton - concierge level lounge and all. We called dispatch and asked to go somewhere because we were getting bored at the hotel, needed stock, and had training to finish. We ended up at the Boston Airport Hilton, a gorgeous place with a beautiful lobby, cool restaurant/lounge, flat screen in the room.

My last day was 12 1/2 hours, realizing that the last 3 of those was snoozing in seat 11F, made possible by AA Platinum status.

Holiday Inns? Maybe in small markets like Rock Springs, or Paducah, or West Memphis. Darned near every pilot in this company is Hilton Diamond within 6 months. My Marriott points are building also - just had a $400 Marriott in Saratoga, NY. Also frequently enjoy the SJC Marriott.

I agree that I'd like a change to the floating rest period, but alternative is that 4 a.m. airport standby every day. No fractional's work rules prevent 14 up - 10 down for days on end. I'd rather sleep and take the risk of the phone call.

Who do you know? I'm so tired I'm walking with a limp.

Walsh, I'm usually a company cheerleader, but while I haven't work a 16 hr day I have been working 15.7- 15.2 14.6 my last 3 roatations (last day). Tell your pillow your own sweet dreams!

I like my job but the last day crap needs to stop.

 

[CL300Pilot]

How many have woke up on either coast or at home base to be told you are released or airlined home to be off by 15:00?

While I agree that there are some late days on the last day, I have seen a lot of home by 11:00 to 16:00 by just airlining home or being on home reserve on my last day.

Like any job, you have to remember the good with the bad. Flexjet still beats an office job with no view any day.

Just my $0.02 worth.

 

[Fozzy]

I have seen the guys sitting at airports without a full crew or even and aircraft. I have talked to the guys on the hotel van going to sit for the day for 8 hours then repo after that. This isn't hearsay its straight from the pilots. Are some things better at NJ than at Flex, maybe. Are some things better at Flex, YES. Is a union and a contract better, Oh Hell NO.

But back to topic I have had over 24 hour layovers and I have had 10 hour. It all depends on where you are and whether or not someone wants to go somewhere. All are the same.

Then those boys don't know their contract. Probably missed making some serious dough, or having time in the hotel. You enjoy it over there. Believe what you want about Unions.
Is a Union and a contract better? OH HELL YES!

 

[EdAtTheAirport]

Well then I guess we're all where we like. Why the discussion?

 

[finnjl]

flex is not that bad at all. actually I have had home reserve to start my rotations for 4 days this summer. Just had a 24 hour layover on the beach. I had a long last day 2 times this year, typically you are on a flight by 12-3 PM and I am usually home around 5-8 PM most of the time.

I have not had a problem with the floating rest. 9 times out of 10 you are put in rest at 5 central. Yes if you stay up late the night before thinking you have a 3 pm departure and they call you at 4 AM to recover a trip that stinks.

It does not take me my whole first day off to recover from the trip I am not sure where people are getting that.

Flex is not for everyone, If you seem to be the type of person who likes everything scheduled and very little changes than this is not the place for you.

It seems to be a good place to work. If you do not want to commute and want to live in Dallas, New York, South Florida, or Southern California this is not a bad place to work and if you do not have the airline bug. Am I ever going to be rich here, no but I will not be poor either.

 

[bailey3083]

flex is not that bad at all. actually I have had home reserve to start my rotations for 4 days this summer. Just had a 24 hour layover on the beach. I had a long last day 2 times this year, typically you are on a flight by 12-3 PM and I am usually home around 5-8 PM most of the time.

I have not had a problem with the floating rest. 9 times out of 10 you are put in rest at 5 central. Yes if you stay up late the night before thinking you have a 3 pm departure and they call you at 4 AM to recover a trip that stinks.

It does not take me my whole first day off to recover from the trip I am not sure where people are getting that.

Flex is not for everyone, If you seem to be the type of person who likes everything scheduled and very little changes than this is not the place for you.

It seems to be a good place to work. If you do not want to commute and want to live in Dallas, New York, South Florida, or Southern California this is not a bad place to work and if you do not have the airline bug. Am I ever going to be rich here, no but I will not be poor either.

Everything you say is true but remember we are wrong because we are Flex and they are right because they are Netjets. The are the best because they have a union and we do not. They are the best and we suck. You will never convince the NetJets people otherwise because they are so full of hot air. This was just flame bait. I have noticed alot of people are posting something just so they can sit back and watch NetJets chew us apart. Oh Well I have a cold beer and College football to watch.

Bailey

 

[theskyking]

Interesting reply, Bailey. If you go back and read the posts, Walshfly was the first to mention NJ. He did so by commenting on our work rules. That seems like an open invitation to set the record straight.

 

[walshsfly]

Interesting reply, Bailey. If you go back and read the posts, Walshfly was the first to mention NJ. He did so by commenting on our work rules. That seems like an open invitation to set the record straight.

Your wrong it wasn't and open invitation. It is fact, its what was really happening. They were sitting in LWB, I ate dinner with them, this isn't guessing or some sort of screwed view, straight from their mouths. I was there for an hour to pick up and they were there for 8 hours that day. The previous day the sat at hot spring VA doing the same thing. So don't blame me for pointing out the truth.

 

[Club ORD FO]

The QOL is not that bad. I came from independence and I work a hell of a lot less here than I did over there. maybe 400 hours at most my first year. Maybe I am just lucky tho... I get a 5am or earlier call maybe once every 3 rotations, a 14+ hour day maybe once every other rotation.

when I was ONT based, I got a day of home reserve 3 out of 4 rotations, did nothing but airline on my last day 50% of the time or more....

I think NJs might have better work rules (cant say I have a copy of the contract in the bathroom for reading material), but Flex is by no means slave labor or anything. I'd like to see the floating rest go away, that is the biggest pain. Makes planning sleep for a redeye the next day interesting. Stay up all night?? oh wait, the phone can ring at 1am....

 

[DirtyBeech]

Flex is just terrible. I was just on for 7 days and actually had to fly 5 of them. On top of that I had to sleep in my own bed for 3 nights. And the clincher was on day 7 I didn't go on duty until 1730lcl and terminated at my gateway at 2240lcl. One hour post flight plus a limo to my car at another airport meant I had to get an overtime day. Oh the humanity.

 

[EdAtTheAirport]

Bailey that was hilarious.

 

[doylehargraves]

Well mr Walsh, you WILL get the 16 hour last day, trust me. You've been lucky, as I have been lucky a few times too. Try getting home after 11pm FIVE rotations in a row on your last day. It's happened to me and it WILL happen to you, eventually.

I would kill for a 12 hour day on my last day lately. The problem right now at flex is we are extremely short on crews. There are a dozen airplanes sitting around every day uncrewed while the lucky ones working get 14 hour duty days to cover it. One good thing is, it can't get any worse this christmas because we're already working max days right now.

Oh and edatheairport, please change your avatar!

 

[Wankel7]

Flex is just terrible. I was just on for 7 days and actually had to fly 5 of them. On top of that I had to sleep in my own bed for 3 nights. And the clincher was on day 7 I didn't go on duty until 1730lcl and terminated at my gateway at 2240lcl. One hour post flight plus a limo to my car at another airport meant I had to get an overtime day. Oh the humanity.

DUDE ! That is horrible...where are you based?

 

[skydan5]

Well mr Walsh, you WILL get the 16 hour last day, trust me. You've been lucky, as I have been lucky a few times too. Try getting home after 11pm FIVE rotations in a row on your last day. It's happened to me and it WILL happen to you, eventually.

I would kill for a 12 hour day on my last day lately. The problem right now at flex is we are extremely short on crews. There are a dozen airplanes sitting around every day uncrewed while the lucky ones working get 14 hour duty days to cover it. One good thing is, it can't get any worse this christmas because we're already working max days right now.

Oh and edatheairport, please change your avatar!

I haven't landed that late in the year that I have been here. Maybe because I am DFW based and I almost always get a direct flight home.

I like Ed's fro! Or is that Buckwheat?

 

[DirtyBeech]

DUDE ! That is horrible...where are you based?

I'm DFW based.

 

[doylehargraves]

I get direct flights too, always after 11pm. This has to stop.

 

[KevinOppelt]

True statement: A netjet pilot will work around 20 days less per year than a flex pilot with the 7 & 7 schuedule. (different for reserve). Plus the vacation deal sucks at flex.