Skywest ALPA OC petitions NMB

[Nightrain_080]

Yep. That's why you see all the pilots at Skywest rushing out the door to apply at ASA, right? No. Wait. They're rushing out the door at ASA to apply at Skywest. I'm so confused. I guess those pilots from ASA who are now flying for Skywest are confused too. They must have come over to Skywest so they could vote to join ALPA again. Right. I understand.

They have been rushing out the door. Anywhere from 20-30 a month are moving on to greener pastures. Don't kid yourself. ALPA we know isn't the magic red pill. It sure beats getting forced to drink the sapa kool-aid year after year. JB and ME are first rate used car salesman and (BH) uncle rico is their owner. Those little bitziches will blow smoke up your inlet if you let them. Kinda sounds like you like the smoke. Step back and ask yourself where you want to be in 20 years. Do you really think whether your at Skywest or not that Sapa is going to truly represent the pilots? It is an organization funded by SGU management. Black and white brother. There is no reading between the lines. VOTE!

LIBERALISM IS A MENTAL DISORDER!!!

 

[ranger17]

! But they don't know all that has been taken away in the last few years. All the changes that the company has made, unilaterally, or with SAPA's consent


Everyone keeps talking about all that has been taken away over the past five years, but no one says what it has been. So can someone tell us new guys what has been lost? Not trying to bash anyone but I think it will help some fence sitters (me being one) decide.

 

[reno]

! But they don't know all that has been taken away in the last few years. All the changes that the company has made, unilaterally, or with SAPA's consent


Everyone keeps talking about all that has been taken away over the past five years, but no one says what it has been. So can someone tell us new guys what has been lost? Not trying to bash anyone but I think it will help some fence sitters (me being one) decide.

This cut and paste from one of AB's post's should give you an idea.

1: SAPA is funded and therefore controlled by management. Current funding protocol for SAPA violates federal law. This matter will hopefully resolve itself after ALPA is voted in and SAPA becomes irrelevant. Until this happens, what is preventing SAPA from taking the necessary steps to attain autonomy and become a self funded legally recognized representative body for SkyWest pilots?

SAPAs track record during my 9 plus years at this company isn’t inspiring. SAPA failed to accomplish the following:

1: Failed to include our Bro pilots in the 1% pay increase.

2: Failed to implement Zoltar and SEP for pilots.

3: Failed to implement a pilot specific policy manual that is not trumped by the Company Policy Manual.

4: Failed to get management to agree to durable language to protect our seniority in the event of a merger or acquisition.

5: EB members usurp the authority of the democratically elected president. (Mark Nolin)

6: Failed to stop management from reversing its new cancelled leg pay policy. (57 pics will be paid but the practice will continue.) This is their (management’s) version of resolving this issue. We have not received any new information regarding this pen stroke policy except for the sound bite “we are continuing discussion with Brad regarding this matter.”

7: Failed to reverse the implementation of the reserve bucket system.

8: Failed to live up to the documented promise of backing any pilot who refused to fly the CRJ700/900 at 50-seat pay scale.

9: Failed to do anything about the seniority abrogation that resulted from the pen stroke Forced Bid Protocol.

10: Failed to resolve the HCE 401K issue affecting our senior pilots.

11: Failed to reverse the pen stroke policy of no pay for new hires during training back in 2003.

12: Failed to do anything about the slashing of our uniform allowance.

13: Failed to do anything about the new requirement for new hires to purchase their Jepp plates or to double up in hotel rooms during training.

14: Failed to obtain clarification from management regarding Klen Brokes e-mail threatening disciplinary actions against pilots who bust altitudes even though they completed a ASAP report.

15: PBS aka Pilots Being Screwed.

Every time there is a Union drive our pilots receive empty promises like some of the ones listed above from management and from well meaning SAPA reps who believe that they can make a difference. The drive fails, promises are broken and it’s back to business as usual, until the next Union drive. I think we all appreciate the work our SAPA reps do on our behalf. What we must acknowledge is that our SAPA reps are at a tactical disadvantage because they lack the tools, resources and leverage to provide a pilot group of this size with adequate representation.

 

[SkyNation]

if you look at Mesa, ASA, Comair, AWAC, etc., and say to yourself 'I wish our company, culture, general attitude, present condition and future prospects were more like those guys,' then by all means, vote ALPA. after all, we can only hope to attain here what history shows can been attained elsewhere using ALPA. and even if we somehow are able to equal those places (which would be a degression IMHO) on our first contract after 5 or however many years, what is the cost? beyond losing the 5 years?

ALPA will not magically transform us, or any other, into a unified group. all ALPA can guarantee is that it will collect dues and try it's (our) best. the results are there for anyone to see.

the alternative is to stay with what we've done, which though far from perfect, has attained a certain result. this result is, in my opinion, better than what I experienced elsewhere and what I observe elsewhere. the arguments that things have degraded here are valid. if you believe that this is purely the result of corporate greed and that by voting in ALPA you will somehow FORCE them to share more of the pie, to accept your demands, and allow you to dictate the them, then vote ALPA.

if, however, you are a realist, and you look around and realize that the changes that have occurred industry wide are the result more of a ever changing and ever more competitive market, then don't willfully hang the millstone about the neck of our company. if you realize that the industry has and will to continue to suffer through changes, but that we've fared much better than most, then don't place the stumbling block in the way of our company pushing forward to remain competitive. if you feel like what we have at SkyWest is unique, enjoyable, and you want to maintain that, then don't shackle our competitive abilities with leg irons that once installed can never be removed.

study it out, weigh the alternatives, look at results.

 

[SkyNation]

reno,

now put up the list of ALPA 'failures' at the regionals so we can compare.

 

[SSDD]

I'll add one more. Skywest is self-insured, which means that UHC, and IHC are merely plan administrators. They pay out what Skywest directs them to. While the company continues to make record profits, insurance premiums have gone up, while coverage declines.

 

[jayme]

the arguments that things have degraded here are valid. if you believe that this is purely the result of corporate greed and that by voting in ALPA you will somehow FORCE them to share more of the pie, to accept your demands, and allow you to dictate the them, then vote ALPA.

YOU are the only one who makes this stupid argument. NOBODY on the pro-ALPA side has suggested that a union will force the company to do anything. You bring up this false argument over and over so that you can smash it down. But it's YOUR F'N ARGUMENT!!!!

A contract needs to be put in place so that the company is legally held to our agreement. They would be unable to arbitrarily and unilaterlly:

1. Change the cancelled legs policy.

2. Not pay deadheads by scheduled block, and instead pay historical credit. They then argue that since they have ALWAYS paid historical credit, they will continue even though the policy manual says "SCHEDULED BLOCK" (almost always higher since we adjusted the block times a few months ago.)

3. Implement PBS (which is OK for some and bad for others. Either way, it is a BIG win for management and the pilots should have shared in the savings.)

4. Implementation of the bucket system. This is a HUGE loss for reserves and a HUGE win for the company. Again, a union would have sat down with the company and said "OK, you want this, what do we get in return?"

That's all I can think of off the top of my head.

 

[SSDD]

Some people can't live without a union, others are anti union to the core. You can't convince those people of anything, however, the majority are in the middle. Sadly, we have seen the damage tha SAPA has done to this pilot group.

Some representatives are well meaning, but powerless, those come and go. Others jump at management's commands, and try to convince the pilot group that its the right thing to do. Whatever we do, SAPA has to go!

 

[Gnarloooo]

I used to be a republican and anti-union. I blame Bush/Cheney for turning me into a Democrat and SAPA for turning me pro-union.

 

[MYFpilot]

ASA has been negotiating for 5 YEARS, and in the end will probably get a lesser version of what we already have.

haters, start your engines!!!!!!!!

10% Nh, introduce fuel, here I go...

Yeah I guess ASA should have agreed to a concessionary TA back in 2003 just to get'er done. Instead they are looking at at least a 1% increase on their 70 seater rates (and not some BHO scam either), and RETRO PAY, and contractual language on how PBS is implemented and operated. Oh, and could ya do me a favor and answer the following...

If you were involved in an accident or an incident would you want ALPA or SAPA representing you?

If you had issues with your medical would you want ALPA or SAPA representing you?

If you busted a checkride or PC would you want ALPA or SAPA representing you?

If the current management personnel at SkyWest were to change (actually happening as we speak) would you want ALPA or SAPA representing you?

If a crewmember or passenger injured themselves onboard your aircraft would you want ALPA or SAPA representing you?

If we were to merge seniority lists with ASA would you want ALPA or SAPA representing you?

SAPA elections have a 50% voter turnout. Who would better able to unify the SkyWest pilot group ALPA or SAPA?

Do you like working 5 and 6 days in a row, with only two days off in between, it happens every month with PBS to junior and senior crewmembers alike. Who would be better suited to address scheduling issues, ALPA or SAPA?

I hate paying 150 bucks a month for car and homeowners insurance, but what if?

How much is your ATP or Commercial certificate worth to you? ALPA may not get me a raise? but 2% is cheap career insurance.

Fly Safe!!

 

[Ben Dover]

I'll add one more. Skywest is self-insured, which means that UHC, and IHC are merely plan administrators. They pay out what Skywest directs them to. While the company continues to make record profits, insurance premiums have gone up, while coverage declines.

Finally someone else gets it! The company has very deliberately reached into its employees pockets and redirected those funds to corporate coffers.

 

[Thug Life]

I used to be a republican and anti-union. I blame Bush/Cheney for turning me into a Democrat and SAPA for turning me pro-union.

How did Bush/Cheney turn you into a democrat?

 

[www.]

Yes I have been here over a year, and yea I am voting FOR ALPA. I just dont want people to think that alpa is the end all, best thing in the world, because it is not. Its better than sapa though.

ALPA is as good as the pilots YOU ELECT!

 

[70-SS]

ALPA is as good as the pilots YOU ELECT!

You are exactly right!!!. If you don't like the way your elected leaders are running things get rid of them and run yourself. Don't complain. Do something!!!!

 

[BoilerUP]

now put up the list of ALPA 'failures' at the regionals so we can compare.

I'd actually be curious to know what you believe ALPA's failures at regional carriers are...

 

[scarlet]

Skywest has a great way to bid vacation so you can max. your days off !! Yeah that is right you get your 7 days off and that is IT! !!!

ASA we get like uuummmhhh10-15 days off with just one week of vacation...

Enjoy your extra 2 -3 weeks at work a year more than us....Thanks ALPA

ALPA for AWESOME LIFE, Loss of License, Short term disability, Insurance and all at GREAT RATES !!!!

 

[SkyNation]

I'd actually be curious to know what you believe ALPA's failures at regional carriers are...

I don't have a list. I could come up with one, just like this dude did in his rant against SAPA. I could add all sorts of complaints, borrowing from the endless posts on this board. In the end it would be just as pointless unless you consider the overall picture, the results, the state the individual companies find themselves in.

The point that I make is that there are 'icky' things that happen everywhere. ALPA, SAPA, the Girl Scouts or whoever represents you isn't necessarily the cause of them,nor can they necessarily prevent them.

Times change, companies change, the market changes. I get tired of all the whiners who blame it all on SAPA.

 

[Marsupial]

Yep. That's why you see all the pilots at Skywest rushing out the door to apply at ASA, right? No. Wait. They're rushing out the door at ASA to apply at Skywest. I'm so confused. I guess those pilots from ASA who are now flying for Skywest are confused too. They must have come over to Skywest so they could vote to join ALPA again. Right. I understand.

i worked at asa for 13 months and then came here a year ago. alpa had absolutely nothing to do with me leaving there. i will say that when i got here i thought maybe the whole non union thing might be pretty good. after all skywest seemed like it really had alot going on for itself. but i am an open minded person and after talking to captains that have been here 5,6, 7 years +, things aren't as 'perfect' as they first seem, i guess particularly to the new hires. it seems management has taken away things, or backed out of promises, just a little at a time over a period of time. so that one thing doesnt seem so bad. but when you add it all up, like the list someone posted, you realize it is sliding downhill. but because of the way it is done, the newer people (which there are tons of) don't see it or know about it, and the more senior ones who were subject to it at the time, have gone off to other jobs. so, like many others, i don't think alpa is the be all end all greatest thing to ever happen to an airline, but it is a start to trying to remedy things.

 

[VeeOne]

Hey SkyNation-

You talk of Comair, ASA, Pinnacle, and many of the other airlines out there and how ALPA has shaped their corporate culture. I would have to argue that it is the company leadership that sets it's tone. This point is only proven by Southwest. They are union. I suppose this doesn't suit your argument, and therefor will be ignored. The extent of your argument against ALPA is a shallow one at best, and you are only trying to serve your own personal agenda with this- at the expense of many ( ASA pilots).

Hopefully when the union drive gets spooled up, there will be some initiative to pull together. Reps need to actively persue voters with a laptop in operations. And a published list, much like what was posted here earlier, ought to be printed out and set beside the computer for voters to see.

There is room for ASA and SkyWest to grow. Do you honestly think SkyWest will shrink if you go ALPA. It's not YOUR responsibility to shoulder a "competative" business plan.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

I don't have a list. I could come up with one.

OK...let's see it then.