what the hell "sapa"

[CoAlpha]

so our pres of sapa says no meeting and some clown, says meeting in on. jesus these guys really dont understand that if this is kept up they might have to go back to flying the line.

 

[WateryGrave]

so our pres of sapa says no meeting and some clown, says meeting in on. jesus these guys really dont understand that if this is kept up they might have to go back to flying the line.

Care to take another stab at that one???

 

[CoAlpha]

Care to take another stab at that one???

if you were in the know you would know what i was talking about, so no. there is no reason for "another stab" needed.

take care

 

[XPOO]

CoAlpha,

I'm no biologist, but you look to be a sloth. If that's the case, don't worry, no one expected you to get off your lazy ass in the first place and go through the proper channels to finding the answer to your question.

 

[No.W.]

There are no good answers to his question.

 

[Weasil]

I have to agree with coalpha,

"What the hell SAPA?"

The pilots of Skywest recently elected a new President to our "association". After the management installed, non-line pilot (no medical) secretary (who depends on sapa for an income) testified in court that he thinks he is the administrative head of SAPA, the duly elected President sent out a letter to the pilots saying that this had happened, and that the next SAPA meeting is cancelled. Well 9 of the SAPA board have decided to go ahead with the meeting anyway while 10 are standing by the President (at least that's how it looks right now).

There are threats of recalls of these reps, and a poll on the sapa website shows overwhelming support for a recall election. This is getting very interesting.

 

[BoilerUP]

Recalling what reps? The ones standing with the President, or the "company men"?

 

[Ben Dover]

class action lawsuit?

So here's what I'm wondering. If/when the court rules that SAPA is illegal, isn't the next logical step for someone (OC or some other disaffected pilot)to file a class action lawsuit for back pay?

Think about it, if the court rules against the existence of SAPA then isn't it basically saying management has been negotiating with ITSELF all of these years rather than negotiating with the pilots.

 

[Bluto]

The recent pay vote fiasco is clear evidence that any "negotiations" between mgmt. and the pilot group were simply a show. When the pilot group refused a ridiculous pay proposal, mgmt simply stopped negotiations and moved on.

 

[Steveair]

I found it interesting ALPA is suing to suspend the SAPA program. Pretty dirty trick. Take away all representation so pilot's are forced to vote in ALPA. Great organization there... nice to see they're trying to screw us already.

 

[Blucher]

I found it interesting ALPA is suing to suspend the SAPA program. Pretty dirty trick. Take away all representation so pilot's are forced to vote in ALPA. Great organization there... nice to see they're trying to screw us already.

Let me get this straight. You guys have been lied to by a corrupt system for years now, and it's ALPA's fault for exposing the lie? You know, you could always just vote in the Teamsters. ALPA ain't the only game in town.

-Blucher

 

[Bluto]

Recalling what reps? The ones standing with the President, or the "company men"?

Company men.
Recent events suggest at best, a group severely out-of-touch with the pilot group, and at worst a group with some very serious conflicts of interest.

 

[Lilah]

Talked with MN yesterday, and kudos to him for calling it the way he sees it !! He's making this non-union person seriously reconsider his position.

It's interesting how SWOL doesn't list him at all. Go SWOL-Crewmember-Crewinfo-SAPA/SIA and see for yourself!

Both sides are crooked in my own opinion. ME's letter (today) seems to imply if management is forced to cut off money for SAPA, it would cease to exist. Well, if management pays for SAPA, wouldn't it seem to act in (management's) best interest, or they wouldn't pay for it?

Cheers!

 

[Ben Dover]

So here's what I'm wondering. If/when the court rules that SAPA is illegal, isn't the next logical step for someone (OC or some other disaffected pilot)to file a class action lawsuit for back pay?

Think about it, if the court rules against the existence of SAPA then isn't it basically saying management has been negotiating with ITSELF all of these years rather than negotiating with the pilots.

If you think about it. What's to stop pilots from some OTHER airline from filing a class action lawsuit against the company claiming that SAPAs illegal existence has depressed wages industry wide? Essentially making every regional pilot part of the "class" in class action.

 

[SkyNation]

MN is a sort-of 'trojan horse' for the ALPA drive, albeit a poorly disguised one. Anyone who has talked to him should have known that before voting for him. I like him a lot, but I knew that if elected his agenda was to install ALPA by whatever means he could. We differ in what we feel best serves this pilot group.

This should serve as a reminder that they don't have the support to just hold the stupid vote and move on with things. This is a way to 'end around' the process by de-certifying SAPA.

just hold the vote! then we can move beyond this nonsense. and if ALPA is voted in, we can start our clock ticking away the years until anything changes.

 

[s.o.sJTB]

If SAPA ceases to exist than ME is out of a job and loses 105 hrs of pay every month that is paid by management. He dosent have a current medical and hasnt flown in years. He has been in this position by the SGU good ole boys club, and he convinces us we dont need ALPA's loss of license benifets, since his, and only his, needs are being taken care of by the company.

 

[s.o.sJTB]

MN is a sort-of 'trojan horse' for the ALPA drive, albeit a poorly disguised one. Anyone who has talked to him should have known that before voting for him.

So what...he didnt hide it and he was elected to do something about it, if people dont want ALPA they shouldnt have been so apathetic, the ones who participate in the current system are having their voices heard. If you didnt vote you have no right to complain. The last two Presidents couldnt get re-elected, the last only recieved 6 VOTES! thats how the pilot group felt about him and thats why MN is now president.

 

[ArcticFlier]

If SAPA ceases to exist than ME is out of a job and loses 105 hrs of pay every month that is paid by management. He dosent have a current medical and hasnt flown in years. He has been in this position by the SGU good ole boys club, and he convinces us we dont need ALPA's loss of license benifets, since his, and only his, needs are being taken care of by the company.

Hence, a real conflict of interest. Not this made up bullsh!te about MN's role in SAPA and ALPA.

 

[SkyNation]

I don't know ME and don't really care if he's booted. New blood would be good by it's nature, I'm sure.

why not just hold the election now? I believe in the democratic process and am anxious to see the results. I've asked before to only receive a dead silence: will those of you who support the ALPA drive admit it honestly that if/when the drive fails that it is because our pilots were not converted, sold, or impressed enough with what ALPA has to offer?

my bet is that tons of tired excuses will rain out, faulting everyone and anyone.

hold the vote now. if your argument is compelling to the majority, then ALPA will be voted in. if it isn't, it won't be.

 

[rogerwilcoout]

if you were in the know you would know what i was talking about, so no. there is no reason for "another stab" needed.

take care

uggggg

 

[Ski Bum]

why not just hold the election now? I believe in the democratic process and am anxious to see the results.

The democratic process contains quite a bit of campaigning if you haven't noticed. One of the major issues the OC is facing is the false belief that we are in fact "respresented" by SAPA. Lots of folks fall into this trap and don't believe we need a union because we already have SAPA. These latest letters from the SAPA President and the SAPA "company men" are finally bringing out into the open what many pilots have known for years...SKYW pilots are not represented by SAPA. Management is represented by SAPA. These issues would never have been brought into the light if the OC just rushed into a vote.

Everybody is anxious to see the results, but I can't help but notice that it is all of the folks not in favor of ALPA that want to "have the vote already." Seems to me that they notice the ALPA drive picking up a lot of steam as our pilot groups realizes their need for real representation.

 

[Howard Hughes]

I have to agree with coalpha,

The pilots of Skywest recently elected a new President to our "association". After the management installed, non-line pilot (no medical) secretary (who depends on sapa for an income) testified in court that he thinks he is the administrative head of SAPA, the duly elected President sent out a letter to the pilots saying that this had happened, and that the next SAPA meeting is cancelled. Well 9 of the SAPA board have decided to go ahead with the meeting anyway while 10 are standing by the President (at least that's how it looks right now).

There are threats of recalls of these reps, and a poll on the sapa website shows overwhelming support for a recall election. This is getting very interesting.

Reminds me of Crimson Tide:

Sapa President = Denzel Washington
These other guys = Gene Hackmans dog

 

[SkyNation]

Everybody is anxious to see the results, but I can't help but notice that it is all of the folks not in favor of ALPA that want to "have the vote already." Seems to me that they notice the ALPA drive picking up a lot of steam as our pilot groups realizes their need for real representation.

not the case. Spoke with TS, the SLC guy for the OC effort. He explained the major obstacle is guys from ALPA carriers who have come to SkyWest. I've said this all along, since I'm one of them. Don't try to sell me the same crappy car that I've already owned once before. Been there, got the stickers, no thanks.

everyone airline has problems, everyone has someone they blame for them. we just don't pay 2% for the luxury of blaming ALPA just to 'be in the club.'

 

[Gobi Gred]

Been there, done that with SAPA even longer, no thanks.

 

[Ski Bum]

Been there, got the stickers, no thanks.

everyone airline has problems, everyone has someone they blame for them. we just don't pay 2% for the luxury of blaming ALPA just to 'be in the club.'

Members of the OC and many members of our pilot group do not want to join ALPA so we can sit at the "cool kids table" or be "in the club." We want to join because the stickers that you mock actually mean something. "Schedule with Safety" "Never Forget" "75 Years" just to name a few. It's fine if you have had a bad experience with unions and it is your right to vote whichever way you chose, but do not belittle the countless sacrifices, volunteer hours, and collective bargaining that have turned your "stickers" into a safer and more profitable piloting profession.

I for one, do not want to "blame" anybody, but rather move forward and make Skywest stronger through ALPA.

 

[Gobi Gred]

Well said, Ski Bum. It seems many of today's pilots have forgotten about the sacrifices those before us made to improve our profession.

 

[FlySacto]

I found it interesting ALPA is suing to suspend the SAPA program. Pretty dirty trick. Take away all representation so pilot's are forced to vote in ALPA. Great organization there... nice to see they're trying to screw us already.

I'm sure that without the 105hrs credit all the motivation to help out their fellow pilot disappears. I guess if managment doesn't pay them they can't just volunteer their time to continue all that good work as in the past. I've flown these guys around so they could spend several days working out all those important negotiations to managment. Hey, let's hang out in Monterey for a few days with the flight attendant reps and get that pay package put together. Thanks from all us guys on the EMB for all your hard work!!!

 

[Gr82Aviate]

I'm sure that without the 105hrs credit all the motivation to help out their fellow pilot disappears. I guess if managment doesn't pay them they can't just volunteer their time to continue all that good work as in the past. I've flown these guys around so they could spend several days working out all those important negotiations to managment. Hey, let's hang out in Monterey for a few days with the flight attendant reps and get that pay package put together. Thanks from all us guys on the EMB for all your hard work!!!

Let's not forget a big thanks for those of us who haven't had any raises for years because we are capped out and don't get COLA anymore...The 1% was only good for about 3 months at the current inflation rate, this means going backward for 10 + years!

 

[HelloNewman]

who cares ALPA is still a much more corrupt organization than SAPA ever will be!!!

Question: What is the difference between SAPA and ALPA?

Answer: SAPA's services are free, ALPA screws you out of 2% every month and still doesn't do anything about it. look at ASA. Five years and counting. Tick Tick Tick.

SAPA is not handling this situation properly that is for sure. Does this mean the union will be voted in? Hell no it doesn't. Most people still want nothing to do with that woerthless organization called ALPA. The new president doesn't even listen to the will of the pilots(re: age 60).

People say ALPA forces management to negotiate in "good faith". What good does this do when the NMB will not release anyone? Lets face it guys the ride is over. We pilots have been exposed for what we really are. Glorified button pushers and we simply do not command the pay recieved in the past. The NMB is rightfully aware of this. If you want job security go work for the government. We all knew what we were getting into when we signed up for this job!!

BTW ALPA blowhards talk about how the union can get your job back. DD got a much sweeter deal with his wrongful termination lawsuit. He will make millions and not have to go back to flying the line. That is a much better reward than getting your job back only to waste 2% of your check every month to a corrupt organization.

 

[atrdriver]

who cares ALPA is still a much more corrupt organization than SAPA ever will be!!!

Question: What is the difference between SAPA and ALPA?

Answer: SAPA's services are free, ALPA screws you out of 2% every month and still doesn't do anything about it. look at ASA. Five years and counting. Tick Tick Tick.

Maybe they are free because they are worthless. And anyone who honestly doesn't believe that ALPA hasn't helped at ASA is truly either someone who has no idea what has happened there, or is simply an idiot.