ALPA Signs off on Age 65

[MINIME]

Now some of us won't touch the left side in as much as 12 years!!! Not to mention no real new jobs being created anymore. I see Skybus and VA having no problems attracting applicants in the near future.

 

[NuGuy]

My question is, will our pilot medicals become 'real' medicals now? That could thin the herd, mentally and physically.

Heyas Jet,

I will be writing my congress critter this very afternoon what a joke I think the current 1st class medical is, and recommend that we immediately implement the ICAO standard medical for aircarrier pilots. As we have elected to use the ICAO age standard, obviously we should be using the ICAO medical standard as well.

As a person in reasonable health and paid up loss of license insurance, I say to the old guys "turnabout is fair play".

Nu

 

[BoilerUP]

As we have elected to use the ICAO age standard, obviously we should be using the ICAO medical standard as well.

Agreed...but watch ALPA National want to have their cake and eat it too.

As a person in reasonable health and paid up loss of license insurance, I say to the old guys "turnabout is fair play".

Heh...Karma is a bitch, ain't it?

 

[Flopgut]

Heyas Jet,

I will be writing my congress critter this very afternoon what a joke I think the current 1st class medical is, and recommend that we immediately implement the ICAO standard medical for aircarrier pilots. As we have elected to use the ICAO age standard, obviously we should be using the ICAO medical standard as well.

As a person in reasonable health and paid up loss of license insurance, I say to the old guys "turnabout is fair play".

Nu

Stand by for Prater and company to AGREE with you! Of course in the context of medical standards, Prater will strongly support, in fact guarantee, a 5-10 years phase in period. Wouldn't do the same for the age rule...but he'll see to it for the medical standards!

ICAO's most restrictive rule: no worse than uncorrected 20/40 after age 55. That's what I've heard anyway; How many of you'all got that?

ALPA just took a step back another 25 years.

 

[Pinkslip]

My picture says it all! Piss on ALPA!

 

[nimtz]

:uzi:

Well Mr. Prater my ALPA-PAC contributions are officially done with for my career. Why bother paying for shommozing lawmakers when my union goes against the will of the membership. Sorry but this was a predictable back stab of the majority. ALPA is becoming as screwed up as the airline industry.

 

[Swaayze]

My email to Captain Prater:

Hello Captain Prater,

I will preface by saying that I really had some hope that ALPA would "take back our profession" with you at the helm. That is no longer the case.

I am absolutely appalled by the recent Executive Board vote to support a change in the Age 60 rule. Did the membership of ALPA not just show a majority against such a change? Forgive me if I missed that but I thought I saw just the opposite. For the leadership of "our" union to blatantly disregard the membership's wishes is absurd and infuriating. Justifying your actions with the loaded question in the recent poll (along the lines of "if it is apparent that the age will change should we attempt to be involved in effecting the rule?") is a bunch of crap. That poll was clearly biased toward the age 65 agenda; I said it then and I've said it again now.

If I didn't know better then you'd be receiving this email as my resignation from ALPA. I will, however, no longer support your administration unless I'm proven to be way off base in my disgust.

With the US Airways pilot group halfway out the door and now the proven untrustworthiness of our Executive Board I suspect ALPA could be in trouble this time. My condolences on making our quest to recapture some of the just desserts of our profession that much more difficult, especially for those of us severely impacted by a change to the age 60 rule.

I find these chickensh!t actions by our leadership quite sickening. Pardon my French, but I'm a little upset and at a loss for a word that captures as well the essence of what has happened.

By the way, I'm not necessarily against the age change, but that's not the point here.



Sincerely,

Swaayze
ALPA xxxxxxx
Active American Eagle
Furloughed US Airways
Former elected representative who would never dream of voting in opposition to his constituency.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Bunch of whining babies!

Wake up! The rule was going to change regardless of ALPA's position. At least this way we will have some say in how the rule is changed. If ALPA had attempted to oppose the change we would have looked like a bunch of children stomping our feet and crying when we don't get our way. There are much bigger legislative problems facing ALPA.

By the way, to all you a$$holes blaming Prater for this vote remember that it was your locally elected reps that actually changed ALPA's position

Grow up!

 

[ualdriver]

I think you guys who are crapping on Prater and the Executive Council are kind of missing the big picture here. AGE 60 IS CHANGING WHETHER ALPA LIKES IT OR NOT. I don't want age 65 either, but it's coming. Blakely already announed on Jan 30th that the FAA will propose a new rule allowing pilots to fly until they are 65 in order to bring us to the ICAO standard. The Senate Commerce Committee has already included the age 65 language in their FAA reauthorizaiton bill. The House is expected to follow. It's done, boys. ALPA fought it as directed, and we lost.

Now, we (ALPA) can continue to fight from the outside for something that is going to happen anyway and let airline management and the ATA shape the rules that will govern this inevitable Age 65 reality, or we can recognize that the Age 60 fight is lost and act on issues that the ALPA membership feel are important, like opposing age-related medical testing or maintaining the current First Class Medical requirements.

So what's the "smart" thing ALPA should do for its members? Should ALPA fight a futile battle from the outside or recognize reality as a Union and work FROM THE INSIDE to enact governance that the ALPA members want?

And to the guy who said that ALPA-PAC can kiss his donations good-bye because he's obviously a "one-issue" person, a pro-cabotage aviation administrator in the EU just cheered. That will teach ALPA!!

 

[BoilerUP]

Bunch of whining babies!

Wake up! The rule was going to change regardless of ALPA's position.

Probably...but that's not the point.

At least this way we will have some say in how the rule is changed.

Says who? There are no guarantees anybody in the FAA or Congress will give two sh!ts what ALPA has to say; if they did we wouldn't be in this situation right now.

If ALPA had attempted to oppose the change we would have looked like a bunch of children stomping our feet and crying when we don't get our way.

So that somehow justifies the EB making a decision counter to the will of the majority? BS!

There are much bigger legislative problems facing ALPA.

Like what? Cabotage? Open Skies? Pension reform? Nothing will matter if ALPA as a collective group is mortally fractured along age groups.

Grow up!

So sorry to dissent...who am I to want ALPA to follow the wishes of its members to oppose a change to Age 60?

 

[Tejas-Jet]

My question is, will our pilot medicals become 'real' medicals now? That could thin the herd, mentally and physically.

If you are not getting a "real" medical now...then you need to find a new AME. Dr Tilton, the Federal Air Surgeon has already stated that there will be no change to the current medical standards.

After all...you've already got a bunch of over 60 pilots with 1st class medicals. They do all kinds of flying. And that is the FAA's database.

Write your congressman about safety...and he calls and asks the FAA...and they respond with their data.

 

[AA767AV8TOR]

Guys,

This was always about the senior guys looking out for themselves and eating their young. What they couldn’t win at the negotiating table, they have now raided the careers, earnings, and retirements of their younger crew members. Prater was always a wolf in sheep’s clothing on this issue.

Sorry to see ALPA cave on this issue. I just hope our safety isn’t jeopardized over this blatant money grab by the senior guys. To those stuck at the regional’s or throwing gear – enjoy your positions for the next 3-5 years, your seniors just screwed you.

BTW, your elder’s also just solved management’s pilot shortage problem for the next five years. Guess what happens when no shortage exists – you guessed it, wages stagnate.

AA767AV8TOR

 

[Tejas-Jet]

ICAO's most restrictive rule: no worse than uncorrected 20/40 after age 55. That's what I've heard anyway; How many of you'all got that

...and from what I've heard, the biggest difference in the ICAO physical is that they actually have to put you on a scale to get your weight. Thats about it...

 

[AA767AV8TOR]

If you are not getting a "real" medical now...then you need to find a new AME. Dr Tilton, the Federal Air Surgeon has already stated that there will be no change to the current medical standards.

Tejas Jet,

That will quickly change with the first accident of someone over age 60. The current class I is a joke and you know it. They couldn't tell you if you were going to drop dead the next day.

AA767AV8TOR

 

[GuppyWN]

The seniors are not screwing the juniors. It's your elected representatives on the BOD. Those are the gentlemen that went against popular vote. Get a petiton and recall their asses if you're not happy with the decision.

We here at SWA had a recall vote against our elected Secretary Treasurer last year. He quit the day before the voting closed.

I suggest you guys get the pens out and vote!

Is there precident for your BOD to go against the popular vote? If not, i'd say this should be a slam dunk with a recall vote.

Gup

 

[AA767AV8TOR]

There needs to be a massive movement to recall Prater. It needs to start today.

Just how does the MEC go against the wishes of the majority?? Is this the ruling by minority?? Prater’s Blue Ribbon Panel was a fraud.

AA767AV8TOR

 

[Dharmesh1231]

With the age 65 rule going into effect....this is definitely going to stagnate the pilot profession for another 5-8 yrs. There won't be any movement, any upgrades, any hiring and the windows will surely close for the younger guys aspiring to move up. Now I can be a gear throwing bitch a little longer. My dream has been fulfilled....yay!!!

 

[Flopgut]

So what's the "smart" thing ALPA should do for its members? Should ALPA fight a futile battle from the outside or recognize reality as a Union and work FROM THE INSIDE to enact governance that the ALPA members want?

And to the guy who said that ALPA-PAC can kiss his donations good-bye because he's obviously a "one-issue" person, a pro-cabotage aviation administrator in the EU just cheered. That will teach ALPA!!

If any pro-cabotage EU administrator is chreering it's because he/she just figured out how to get ALPA to not resist a cabotage debate: Simply make it fiscally rewarding to Prater's ALPA senior minority and he'll sell out the whole enchilada!

If he tells you battling cabotage (for instance) is futile are you going to believe him? Are you going to believe he's representing you while his pockets overflow and yours are sucked dry?

Where are we going to make a stand against this sort of representation guys? It won't take too many issues settled in this manner and we'll all be done.

 

[Flopgut]

...and from what I've heard, the biggest difference in the ICAO physical is that they actually have to put you on a scale to get your weight. Thats about it...

Yeah well...at this point that might make me one of the luckier ones?!

Seriously, I eat my weight in sugar and grease everyday and I might still pass a tough medical. If this eyesight requirement past age 55 is at all true, then that triathelete I flew with last month that wore cheaters in the dark, is out. I'll be the first to say that aint fair.

 

[Flopgut]

The seniors are not screwing the juniors. It's your elected representatives on the BOD. Those are the gentlemen that went against popular vote. Get a petiton and recall their asses if you're not happy with the decision.

We here at SWA had a recall vote against our elected Secretary Treasurer last year. He quit the day before the voting closed.

I suggest you guys get the pens out and vote!

Is there precident for your BOD to go against the popular vote? If not, i'd say this should be a slam dunk with a recall vote.

Gup

I hate to admit it, but this SWA guy is right!

OK guys, somebody other than me is going to have to start calling national and raising he!!

Any other CAL guys want to get started recalling our guys?

*I think the big precedent here is that usually these EB votes are unanimous.