ALPA Signs off on Age 65

[Tejas-Jet]

My question is, will our pilot medicals become 'real' medicals now? That could thin the herd, mentally and physically.

If you are not getting a "real" medical now...then you need to find a new AME. Dr Tilton, the Federal Air Surgeon has already stated that there will be no change to the current medical standards.

After all...you've already got a bunch of over 60 pilots with 1st class medicals. They do all kinds of flying. And that is the FAA's database.

Write your congressman about safety...and he calls and asks the FAA...and they respond with their data.

 

[AA767AV8TOR]

Guys,

This was always about the senior guys looking out for themselves and eating their young. What they couldn’t win at the negotiating table, they have now raided the careers, earnings, and retirements of their younger crew members. Prater was always a wolf in sheep’s clothing on this issue.

Sorry to see ALPA cave on this issue. I just hope our safety isn’t jeopardized over this blatant money grab by the senior guys. To those stuck at the regional’s or throwing gear – enjoy your positions for the next 3-5 years, your seniors just screwed you.

BTW, your elder’s also just solved management’s pilot shortage problem for the next five years. Guess what happens when no shortage exists – you guessed it, wages stagnate.

AA767AV8TOR

 

[Tejas-Jet]

ICAO's most restrictive rule: no worse than uncorrected 20/40 after age 55. That's what I've heard anyway; How many of you'all got that

...and from what I've heard, the biggest difference in the ICAO physical is that they actually have to put you on a scale to get your weight. Thats about it...

 

[AA767AV8TOR]

If you are not getting a "real" medical now...then you need to find a new AME. Dr Tilton, the Federal Air Surgeon has already stated that there will be no change to the current medical standards.

Tejas Jet,

That will quickly change with the first accident of someone over age 60. The current class I is a joke and you know it. They couldn't tell you if you were going to drop dead the next day.

AA767AV8TOR

 

[GuppyWN]

The seniors are not screwing the juniors. It's your elected representatives on the BOD. Those are the gentlemen that went against popular vote. Get a petiton and recall their asses if you're not happy with the decision.

We here at SWA had a recall vote against our elected Secretary Treasurer last year. He quit the day before the voting closed.

I suggest you guys get the pens out and vote!

Is there precident for your BOD to go against the popular vote? If not, i'd say this should be a slam dunk with a recall vote.

Gup

 

[AA767AV8TOR]

There needs to be a massive movement to recall Prater. It needs to start today.

Just how does the MEC go against the wishes of the majority?? Is this the ruling by minority?? Prater’s Blue Ribbon Panel was a fraud.

AA767AV8TOR

 

[Dharmesh1231]

With the age 65 rule going into effect....this is definitely going to stagnate the pilot profession for another 5-8 yrs. There won't be any movement, any upgrades, any hiring and the windows will surely close for the younger guys aspiring to move up. Now I can be a gear throwing bitch a little longer. My dream has been fulfilled....yay!!!

 

[Flopgut]

So what's the "smart" thing ALPA should do for its members? Should ALPA fight a futile battle from the outside or recognize reality as a Union and work FROM THE INSIDE to enact governance that the ALPA members want?

And to the guy who said that ALPA-PAC can kiss his donations good-bye because he's obviously a "one-issue" person, a pro-cabotage aviation administrator in the EU just cheered. That will teach ALPA!!

If any pro-cabotage EU administrator is chreering it's because he/she just figured out how to get ALPA to not resist a cabotage debate: Simply make it fiscally rewarding to Prater's ALPA senior minority and he'll sell out the whole enchilada!

If he tells you battling cabotage (for instance) is futile are you going to believe him? Are you going to believe he's representing you while his pockets overflow and yours are sucked dry?

Where are we going to make a stand against this sort of representation guys? It won't take too many issues settled in this manner and we'll all be done.

 

[Flopgut]

...and from what I've heard, the biggest difference in the ICAO physical is that they actually have to put you on a scale to get your weight. Thats about it...

Yeah well...at this point that might make me one of the luckier ones?!

Seriously, I eat my weight in sugar and grease everyday and I might still pass a tough medical. If this eyesight requirement past age 55 is at all true, then that triathelete I flew with last month that wore cheaters in the dark, is out. I'll be the first to say that aint fair.

 

[Flopgut]

The seniors are not screwing the juniors. It's your elected representatives on the BOD. Those are the gentlemen that went against popular vote. Get a petiton and recall their asses if you're not happy with the decision.

We here at SWA had a recall vote against our elected Secretary Treasurer last year. He quit the day before the voting closed.

I suggest you guys get the pens out and vote!

Is there precident for your BOD to go against the popular vote? If not, i'd say this should be a slam dunk with a recall vote.

Gup

I hate to admit it, but this SWA guy is right!

OK guys, somebody other than me is going to have to start calling national and raising he!!

Any other CAL guys want to get started recalling our guys?

*I think the big precedent here is that usually these EB votes are unanimous.

 

[ualdriver]

If any pro-cabotage EU administrator is chreering it's because he/she just figured out how to get ALPA to not resist a cabotage debate: Simply make it fiscally rewarding to Prater's ALPA senior minority and he'll sell out the whole enchilada!

Actually, they can bank on the typical CLUELESSNESS (is that a word?) of the typical airline pilot. You know, the ones who don't attend union meetings, don't contribute to ALPA-PAC, blame ALPA from everything to the loss of their pensions to the excessive amount of solar flare activity, etc., etc. You know, the "one issue" people who say, "I'm never going to contribute to ALPA-PAC again, I'm taking my ALPA pin off, etc., etc.," every time they don't get their way. Again, the Age 60 battle was fought per our direction and ultimaely lost when Administrator Blakely said that the FAA would support an age 65 rule. It's game over, and anyone following the "game" knew that 5 months ago on January 30th.


If he tells you battling cabotage (for instance) is futile are you going to believe him? Are you going to believe he's representing you while his pockets overflow and yours are sucked dry?

Actually, I do think the cabotage thing is futile (ultimately) but can be delayed, which is my short to intermediate term goal. Long term will be damage control concerning this issue. But I digress.........

So what you're saying is that after the FAA said they're going to the ICAO Age 65 standards, the Senate Commerce Committee reported their version of the FAA Reauthorization bill with Age 65 verbage (with the House expected to follow) we should still fight? Fight what? It's lost. And yes, he is representing me by sitting at the table that will figure out how this change is going to take place. If he wasn't, then he wouldn't be representing me and I'd be stuck with some airline management lackey ATA guy determining my fate of post Age 60 regulation.


Where are we going to make a stand against this sort of representation guys? It won't take too many issues settled in this manner and we'll all be done.

What stand are you personally going to take? Are you going to go to a Union meeting? How many of your peers have even seen the inside of a Union hall where the real decisions are made? Are you going to volunteer your time so that you can enact change from within? Are you going to run for elected office so that YOU can be Prater someday and correct all these perceived injustices?

 

[QuasarZ]

It was going to happen sooner or later.. get over it. It is a no win situation. All the senior guys want the change now and the junior guys don't. All the junior guys want to wait until they are 59.5 yrs old and then implement the rule so they can stay on and work. And don't give me this B.S about how you would have saved money and planned better and would not have to work longer... nobody knew 9-11 would happen

 

[Furloughed80]

There needs to be a massive movement to recall Prater. It needs to start today.

Just how does the MEC go against the wishes of the majority?? Is this the ruling by minority?? Prater’s Blue Ribbon Panel was a fraud.

AA767AV8TOR

I hate to admit it, but this SWA guy is right!

OK guys, somebody other than me is going to have to start calling national and raising he!!

Any other CAL guys want to get started recalling our guys?

*I think the big precedent here is that usually these EB votes are unanimous

I completely agree with you guys. We are in the majority and we can still win this. What is the process behind a recall? Anyone here familiar?

 

[Tejas-Jet]

Tejas Jet,

That will quickly change with the first accident of someone over age 60. The current class I is a joke and you know it.

Really ??? A few years ago, at a "joke" of a 1st class flight physical, my AME heard something he was not comfortable with. I had a valve replaced within a few days...saved my life.

Accidents have happened already happened with pilots over 60. If that first accident ever happens, the findings will come out looooonnnnggg after the accident has left the conciousness of the american public. And I'll bet you if that accident ever does happen...the reason will not be..."the pilot in command was age 63"...or whatever.

the sky isn't gonna be falling with the age change....after all, how many accidents have we had in our airspace since the ICAO pilots started flying here last November? ( Appropriately, on Thanksgiving Day)

It's a non-event for the traveling public. In fact, the FAA isn't even listening to "safety" discussions. Why? Because that data has been looked at carefully...The day for that discussion is over....need to find a new reason.

 

[airfogey]

Probably...but that's not the point.



Says who? There are no guarantees anybody in the FAA or Congress will give two sh!ts what ALPA has to say; if they did we wouldn't be in this situation right now.



So that somehow justifies the EB making a decision counter to the will of the majority? BS!



Like what? Cabotage? Open Skies? Pension reform? Nothing will matter if ALPA as a collective group is mortally fractured along age groups.



So sorry to dissent...who am I to want ALPA to follow the wishes of its members to oppose a change to Age 60?

Who's to say that keeping age 60 is the wish of the majority? It it hadn't been for ALPA's opposition it would have changed several years ago. I for one am happy that ALPA has finally come to its senses--maybe I'll give to ALPA pac to make up for all the pissed off children. I think the Executive Board finally realized that they cannot say its about "safety" and keep a straight face anymore. ALPA's support of age 60 has been nothing more than affirmitave action for younger crew members. As far as people going to Skybus or VA cause the legacy's won't be hiring--well SWA, AWA,PSA, New Frontier, AirTran,Spirit,Midwest, and lots others were scum undercutting the "profession"--I'm sure that there were many at the trunk carriers who looked down on "local service airlines" as ruining the profession in the late 40's early 50's. I ask of you--is the "profession" here to create cushy jobs for pilots or is the "profession" here because the airlines provide a service that the public wants? Whether you like it or not the flying public doesn't give one rats behind about the "profession", they just want the cheapest ticket they can get. Its funny but the public doesn't say a peep about 14% of their salaries disappearing down the rat hole called social security, but they'll scream bloody murder if you raise the price of their transcontinental airline ticket by $14.
Airfogey