AAI offer extended (again)

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

Better trainied....? Care to quantify that little pearl of wisdom junior.

Ever heard of sarcasm Francis?

 

[Critter717]

Not a bad idea for Airtran since they would get folks and probably retain them for a long time. Also Embry Riddle products are the best in the industry by far. I would go as far to say they are better trainied than military pilots.

I would say there is no substitute for experience. Pick any city we serve and lets do a round trip with no auto throttles, auto pilot and no flight director. I don't give a crap what kind of "product" comes from Riddle or anywhere else. Time in the seat is invaluable. Let's not confuse the autopilot with flying skills. My neighbors 10 year old could fly the 717 via the FCP.

I started at $25.00 an hour on the DC-9. I was able to hold Captain after 2 years. To the guys who are whining about upgrade and pay, take a step back, look around the industry. When you find the biggest turd out there with the lowest pay and crappy airplanes, send in your resume immediately. Wait 7 years and see how it turns out. That is exactly what happened for alot of us.

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

Cant wait to hear 200 hour wonder pilot telling you how great they are.:smash:

 

[FlyWolf]

Pick any city we serve and lets do a round trip with no auto throttles, auto pilot and no flight director.

No autopilot/ no auto throttle, thats very scary, I would declare an emergency immediately.

 

[XRMEFLYER]

Ever heard of sarcasm Francis?

As a matter of fact I have Mary.

Thing is, the litte fairy may actually think that way. If so I thought I would give her a chance to dazzle us all with some examples from her extensive experiences flying with military pilots.

Either way, I'm not sure I see where it concerns you. Shouldn't you be out saving the skinnies?

 

[Murphy]

I started at $25.00 an hour on the DC-9. I was able to hold Captain after 2 years. To the guys who are whining about upgrade and pay, take a step back, look around the industry. When you find the biggest turd out there with the lowest pay and crappy airplanes, send in your resume immediately. Wait 7 years and see how it turns out. That is exactly what happened for alot of us.

Sorry...not going to accept a half-assed TA. That was Valujet/Airtran then and this is now. AirTran's at a turning point. It's either going to stay a regional airline that qualifies as a major or it is going to evolve into a true major with a nationwide route structure and competitive labor contracts.

I appreciate the work and effort of those who've toiled to make this airline what it is today, but I'm not going to accept a substandard contract because you guys had it tough a decade ago with low pay and substandard equipment. I guess all us FOs should take a hike and go apply to Skybus/Maxjet because that is what you are inferring. We'll leave you to fly with the Embry Riddle graduates. Have fun with that.

 

[Lear70]

Sorry...not going to accept a half-assed TA. That was Valujet/Airtran then and this is now. AirTran's at a turning point. It's either going to stay a regional airline that qualifies as a major or it is going to evolve into a true major with a nationwide route structure and competitive labor contracts.

I appreciate the work and effort of those who've toiled to make this airline what it is today, but I'm not going to accept a substandard contract because you guys had it tough a decade ago with low pay and substandard equipment. I guess all us FOs should take a hike and go apply to Skybus/Maxjet because that is what you are inferring. We'll leave you to fly with the Embry Riddle graduates. Have fun with that.

What he said...

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

Sorry...not going to accept a half-assed TA. That was Valujet/Airtran then and this is now. AirTran's at a turning point. It's either going to stay a regional airline that qualifies as a major or it is going to evolve into a true major with a nationwide route structure and competitive labor contracts.

I appreciate the work and effort of those who've toiled to make this airline what it is today, but I'm not going to accept a substandard contract because you guys had it tough a decade ago with low pay and substandard equipment. I guess all us FOs should take a hike and go apply to Skybus/Maxjet because that is what you are inferring. We'll leave you to fly with the Embry Riddle graduates. Have fun with that.

:beer:

 

[Critter717]

Sorry...not going to accept a half-assed TA. That was Valujet/Airtran then and this is now. AirTran's at a turning point. It's either going to stay a regional airline that qualifies as a major or it is going to evolve into a true major with a nationwide route structure and competitive labor contracts.

I appreciate the work and effort of those who've toiled to make this airline what it is today, but I'm not going to accept a substandard contract because you guys had it tough a decade ago with low pay and substandard equipment. I guess all us FOs should take a hike and go apply to Skybus/Maxjet because that is what you are inferring. We'll leave you to fly with the Embry Riddle graduates. Have fun with that.

Cool...I will. Slow and steady wins the race.

I'll take my 140k a year, 16 to 18 days off and think about your advice. Another 5 or 10 bucks an hour is meaningless.

If they present an agreement that shows full automation of scheduling via Flica ( I don't ever want to HAVE to fax another sheet of paper to orlando), an increase in the company retirement contribution 11-12%, reduced health care costs, and no change in the duty day....im gonna have a hard time not voting for it. Unless you can cough up specific information about RJ flying that will remain a mystery until the NPA produces a document. I have no desire to fly an RJ...no offense.

Im part of the same group of guys that refused to sell out the new hires after 9/11. If you want it all now...then you should consider moving on to a carrier that will assume some responsiblity for your happiness.

 

[Lear70]

Unless you can cough up specific information about RJ flying that will remain a mystery until the NPA produces a document. I have no desire to fly an RJ...no offense.

OK, I will...

This is the information the MEC isn't sharing with you because they know that the company REALLY, REALLY WANTS RJ's in our future and they know that more than likely any T.A. that gets approved this round will probably include a provision to outsource even more RJ's than the current agreement allows:

Bombardier has already started production on a 100-seat jet. Embraer already has one out there. What do you think is going to replace the 717? What do you think should be on the smaller airport routes out west as we expand? Airports such as Aspen, CO, Boseman, MT, Coeur de Lane, ID, etc, etc?

Embraer GUARANTEES their hourly operating cost of their aircraft, and pays the difference if you go over that cost (hint: it's lower than the 717's operating cost and some claim is the same or lower than the 737 on short stage lengths). What management team could pass that up?

So look forward a few years: AirTran can't get a deal for more cheap Boeings, so they look for another airframe to expand and feed the hubs in ATL and MKE. What can we use that's as cheap as the 737 to operate on a seat-mile basis?

But wait,,, we've farmed those out. Now we at AirTran stagnate while our growth goes to RJ's. Is that what you really want? The major carriers have suffered by ever letting SCOPE get away from them. Are we REALLY going to make the same mistake?

THINK about what you said (I don't care as long as I still get my paycheck). Doesn't that sound suspiciously like the NWA/DAL arguments allowing RJ's to go to other carriers a decade or more back? And look where it got them...

THAT'S why ANY T.A. that comes out with a relaxed SCOPE clause gets my immediate NO vote, regardless of Section 4. What does pay matter when they can grow you right out of a seat... or a JOB??!!

Im part of the same group of guys that refused to sell out the new hires after 9/11. If you want it all now...then you should consider moving on to a carrier that will assume some responsiblity for your happiness.

He never said he wanted it all now. He said he wants this airline to REALLY BECOME a major airline, not just another ATA/Sun Country that happens to have Major airline cash flow, and he won't sign an agreement that doesn't recognize that.

If you think back, I bet his thoughts sound a lot like YOURS did during the last contract negotiations... you might have more in common than you think.

Just a thought. :beer:

 

[Ty Webb]

Simma down, guys . . . . we're all on the same team. The Contract has to be fair to the pilot GROUP, not just to senior people or junior people, Captains, or FO's.

I don't want to fly with 300 hour wonders. Sorry, not getting babysitting pay, and I fly as a crew, period. I don't want to come back from getting a double decaf latte crap-a-chino to find that we just had a 10,000 ft altitude bust . . . . . or that the pax are sweating like Airline Management in church because the FO was too new and too swamped to start the APU . . . . or, or, or . . . .

We do short turns with frequent equipment swaps and our Dispatchers today were often Flight Attendents or Gate Agents a few months ago.

Could I fly with Scooby-Doo in the right seat? Damn straight, Shaggy.

Do I want to? Of course not. We deserve an experienced crew, and So let's pay these guys a living wage, and all work together to keep this fun, productive, and safe.

 

[NuGuy]

part of the plan or reactionary?

MEH just announced a code share with NWA.
http://home.businesswire.com/portal...d=news_view&newsId=20070517005998&newsLang=en

Heyas,

Yea, there might be something to that. NWA has unexpectedly accelerated their exit from Bankruptcy, and there are rumors of a lot of MEH management making the MKE-MSP run. Could be the makings of a shotgun marriage.

NWA isn't beyond doing something like this out of spite, and the folks in Wisconsin would probably prefer a midwest company as a result. They snaked CAL out from DAL at the last minute in 98 after it was a "done deal", so anything is possible.

Nu

 

[gt1900]

Thats Ok, Let NWA do thier thing with Midex.. I think AAI could make a real nice hub in MSP at the humphrey terminal or in DTW with their new terminal... AAI can do alot with thier low operating costs. NWA needs to worry about NWA and not AAI... They need to learn from DAL, who could have easily burried AAI at one point.

 

[Kharma Police]

Thats Ok, Let NWA do thier thing with Midex.. I think AAI could make a real nice hub in MSP at the humphrey terminal or in DTW with their new terminal... AAI can do alot with thier low operating costs. NWA needs to worry about NWA and not AAI... They need to learn from DAL, who could have easily burried AAI at one point.

DAL tried and failed (many times) to bury AirTran.

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

As a matter of fact I have Mary.

Thing is, the litte fairy may actually think that way. If so I thought I would give her a chance to dazzle us all with some examples from her extensive experiences flying with military pilots.

Either way, I'm not sure I see where it concerns you. Shouldn't you be out saving the skinnies?

Hmmmm, with an attitude like yours, maybe she actually IS right! You got awfully defensive, awfully fast, so maybe you feel like you fit into her profile? Is that it?

 

[XRMEFLYER]

Hmmmm, with an attitude like yours, maybe she actually IS right! You got awfully defensive, awfully fast, so maybe you feel like you fit into her profile? Is that it?

Yeah thats it hero. You sensitive save the world nonqual types who go through life telling yourselves "I could have done that too but I just didn't want to" make me feel so inadequate.

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

Yeah thats it hero. You sensitive save the world nonqual types who go through life telling yourselves "I could have done that too but I just didn't want to" make me feel so inadequate.

Ummmm, that doesn't even make sense.

I hope you have a REALLY big watch to make up for all of your inadequacies. I can imagine you out there in your Blackhawk, with a Bavarian Cuckoo clock tied to your wrist with bungee cords.

I've flown with and know/knew some class act military people. Then there are the 5% that are like you. Arrogant, (brainwashed) to think you are better than anyone else....especially those lowly civilian types. You are the 5%; the reason that people make comments like those above, about military guys. You are the person that everyone else talks about and doesn't ever want to fly with a second time.

I have a lot of respect for military pilots....just not you.

 

[XRMEFLYER]

Ummmm, that doesn't even make sense.

I hope you have a REALLY big watch to make up for all of your inadequacies. I can imagine you out there in your Blackhawk, with a Bavarian Cuckoo clock tied to your wrist with bungee cords.

I've flown with and know/knew some class act military people. Then there are the 5% that are like you. Arrogant, (brainwashed) to think you are better than anyone else....especially those lowly civilian types. You are the 5%; the reason that people make comments like those above, about military guys. You are the person that everyone else talks about and doesn't ever want to fly with a second time.

I have a lot of respect for military pilots....just not you.

Thanks for clarifying that Sally.

For the record though, it is you who injected yourself into a converstaion that didn't involve you(sticking up for your boyfriend doesn't count) on a matter that you are completely unqualified to comment on.

As for your last sentence, feel free to PM me so we can meet face to face and discuss your poor upbringing. Does that make any sense?

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

Thanks for clarifying that Sally.

For the record though, it is you who injected yourself into a converstaion that didn't involve you(sticking up for your boyfriend doesn't count) on a matter that you are completely unqualified to comment on.

As for your last sentence, feel free to PM me so we can meet face to face and discuss your poor upbringing. Does that make any sense?

First, you aren't Dr. Cox from Scrubs. He's actually funny. You're not. Well, not in a comedic way, anyhow. Let me remind you that this is a public forum, and I can interject (not inject...that is something a nurse does with medication contained inside of a needle) myself into any thread that I want, same as you. Further, you don't really know what concerns me, or doesn't. You also have no idea about what I may or may not be qualified to comment on. I can also assess from your defensiveness on the issue, and your complete inability to have any sense of sarcasm, or for that matter humor, what kind of person you are. If the original post was sarcastic, it was what it was. If it was meant to be serious, you should have had the sense to realize that she wasn't even worth responding to.

Make a post that earns some respect, and doesn't make you appear like a militant, typical 5%er, and maybe you would get some. You must be a real joy in the cockpit. People like you make the world a beautiful place to live. ukelease don't breed.

 

[maxblast72]

"DAL tried and failed (many times) to bury AirTran."


I thought Delta used to call Airtran "Valujoke". I bet if you would of walked into the Delta boardroom in the late 1990's and told them Airtran would have 150 brand new Boeings in ten years, they would have laughed you righ out of the boardroom. If Delta would have been well run like American (who protects DFW at all costs), Airtran would have been gone in 1998 or 1999. I think Delta has taken shots at Airtran but never really tried to bury them like American buried Legends.

 

[XRMEFLYER]

First, you aren't Dr. Cox from Scrubs. He's actually funny. You're not. Well, not in a comedic way, anyhow. Let me remind you that this is a public forum, and I can interject (not inject...that is something a nurse does with medication contained inside of a needle) myself into any thread that I want, same as you. Further, you don't really know what concerns me, or doesn't. You also have no idea about what I may or may not be qualified to comment on. I can also assess from your defensiveness on the issue, and your complete inability to have any sense of sarcasm, or for that matter humor, what kind of person you are. If the original post was sarcastic, it was what it was. If it was meant to be serious, you should have had the sense to realize that she wasn't even worth responding to.

Make a post that earns some respect, and doesn't make you appear like a militant, typical 5%er, and maybe you would get some. You must be a real joy in the cockpit. People like you make the world a beautiful place to live. ukelease don't breed.

Any time you feel up to speaking me that way in person junior, just say the word.

 

[NuGuy]

"DAL tried and failed (many times) to bury AirTran."


I thought Delta used to call Airtran "Valujoke". I bet if you would of walked into the Delta boardroom in the late 1990's and told them Airtran would have 150 brand new Boeings in ten years, they would have laughed you righ out of the boardroom. If Delta would have been well run like American (who protects DFW at all costs), Airtran would have been gone in 1998 or 1999. I think Delta has taken shots at Airtran but never really tried to bury them like American buried Legends.

Heyas Max,

You are pretty close to the mark. In DALs defense, there really weren't ANY successful startups that made it past the "small carrier" phase when VJ spooled up. Even SWA was a few years away from hitting their real growth spurt.

Before that, just about every "bargain basement" carrier had augered in a few years after it had started.

VJ got really, really lucky....If DAL had sent those DC-9s they sold to VJ to the beer can factory instead, if they hadn't started at a time where fares were very high, if they hadn't stashed away a huge pile of cash to weather the shutdown, or purchased another name to fly under, this thread probably wouldn't even exist.

VJ survived their own incompetence/greed by a very improbable set of circumstances, rather than by any grand master plan. B6 is an example of the other side of that coin in that even the best laid plans can go up in smoke with bad PR.

Nu

 

[CitationLover]

Make a post that earns some respect, and doesn't make you appear like a militant, typical 5%er, and maybe you would get some. You must be a real joy in the cockpit. People like you make the world a beautiful place to live. ukelease don't breed.

Any time you feel up to speaking me that way in person junior, just say the word.

you two should get a room and consummate the marriage.

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

Any time you feel up to speaking me that way in person junior, just say the word.

Can't form words? Can only challenge to fight like monkey?? Are you a pilot (as in professional) or one of the thugs that works on the ramp? Drop your god complex and grow up.

 

[Spidey]

Murph...you military guys piss me off...I worked my arss off flyin checks/commuters (much more difficult than shootin missiles from 100 miles away)...tryin to pay off my college bills...while you guys flew for free-paid by my taxes...and then you think yer goin ahead of me on the sacred seniority list...I don't think so...you'll put the gear up when I tell you to...I've paid my dues...Murph, pay yer dues, Mister...

 

[Benhuntn]

Spidey, you are a nut case and you'll be dangerous if you ever make checkairman. I suspect you are a closet FA. The steely-eyed military pilots are the backbone of the airline industry.....

 

[Lear70]

The steely-eyed military pilots are the backbone of the airline industry.....

Ummm... I think you missed a smiley or winky face in there somewhere, because I *KNOW* you can't be serious.

Edited because I haven't had coffee and missed the humor...

"Sucked in for the kill..." LOL

 

[Benhuntn]

Spidey help me out here..I have a lear70 on my tail....breaking right, roll in...help!!!

 

[newnan]

Murph...you military guys piss me off...I worked my arss off flyin checks/commuters (much more difficult than shootin missiles from 100 miles away)...tryin to pay off my college bills...while you guys flew for free-paid by my taxes...and then you think yer goin ahead of me on the sacred seniority list...I don't think so...you'll put the gear up when I tell you to...I've paid my dues...Murph, pay yer dues, Mister...

Did you just remember your password? You show up out of nowhere after a year (almost to the day)!

 

[Spidey]

Did you just remember your password? You show up out of nowhere after a year (almost to the day)!

...yup...kinda an idiot/savant...except for the savant part...see ya at the safety meeting tonight...this time we're gonna have someone take notes...God Bless Dutch!