Awa/usairs Arbitration In !

[Turtle21]

All these people that talk about the '3100' grandpa's voting this down to spite Parker and the AWA pilots are silly. If Parker wants these two carriers to be operated separately(always a possibility but unlikely with the Feds), than he'll let you play your games. If not, he'll throw out the one thing he knows will make U's pilots fold like Dirk Nowitzki-money. The AWA pilots never had a pension, U did and lost it without much time to make it up with or without 65. Considering what they lost and how much time they have to make it up, anything that will bump up their retirements will trump the rest of this garbage. No need for Parker to negotiate seriously prior to a list merger award, now he knows exactly what he's working with and what he needs to do to get a deal done. The U pilots have been punked for too long, they will fall for money and then go out and spend the rest of the time bitching about the award and litigating.

Duh, money always can buy a yes vote. The new list just made the merger more expensive and the operation chittier.

 

[Flys4Fun]

If what I hear is true and the East pilots think making the new US Airways fail is a good idea...they're idiots. All I hear is pissing and moaning about "you just don't understand, after all of our paycuts and benefit cuts, we don't deserve this treatment!" Sooooo making the airline fail is any better? Am I correct in thinking that biting the bullet and doing your freaking job pays more than taking more paycuts because you f**ked things up?

Clearly I'm missing something here.

 

[vtwin]

If what I hear is true and the East pilots think making the new US Airways fail is a good idea...they're idiots. All I hear is pissing and moaning about "you just don't understand, after all of our paycuts and benefit cuts, we don't deserve this treatment!" Sooooo making the airline fail is any better? Am I correct in thinking that biting the bullet and doing your freaking job pays more than taking more paycuts because you f**ked things up?

Clearly I'm missing something here.

Your missing some class. So shut up and celebrate amongst yourselves.
This airline will fail due to labor issues in a few years so don't go buying that captains house too soon. These guys just got pounded in the @ss
by this integration, particularly by losing their retirements to the West. I would be careful about gloating in public also, unless your brothers a dentist. Congratulations on your integration battle, you just lost the war.

 

[abefly]

Lmao!!!!!!!

 

[Doug Parker]

Your missing some class. So shut up and celebrate amongst yourselves.
This airline will fail due to labor issues in a few years so don't go buying that captains house too soon. These guys just got pounded in the @ss
by this integration, particularly by losing their retirements to the West. I would be careful about gloating in public also, unless your brothers a dentist. Congratulations on your integration battle, you just lost the war.

you dickweeds are fxxked up - guess you should've picked something other than DOH to present to the arbitraitor...................

Take a swing and get your geriatric azz knocked out............remember - the arbitraitor made the decision, not the east, the west or the company - thank your hardline MC for their inflexibilty from DOH for the award.



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[abefly]

Your missing some class. So shut up and celebrate amongst yourselves.
This airline will fail due to labor issues in a few years so don't go buying that captains house too soon. These guys just got pounded in the @ss
by this integration, particularly by losing their retirements to the West. I would be careful about gloating in public also, unless your brothers a dentist. Congratulations on your integration battle, you just lost the war.

You my friend are an idiot.........

 

[trainer8]

Sorry Trainer, but MDA was not US Airways mainline. We can go back and forth on this for another 5 pages, but it wasn't. It was intended to be a wholly owned subsidiary and ended up being operated on the US certificate. There was no flow up opportunity except a RECALL to mainline and the PSA and Piedmont guys who ended up flying there had no means of progressing to mainline equipment if they were not FURLOUGHED.

Go from top to bottom of the West list and you'll find the majority would have rather this merger never happened in the first place. We're not over here dancing in our seats, but I'll be dam%ed if someone thinks I got a windfall because someone who didn't have a job when Parker got this bright idea doesn't get to go in front of me and further contribute to my career stagnation.

The history behind Colello being on the bottom of the list after 16 yrs are unfortunate to be sure, but those reasons are no fault of mine and payback is not deserving on my back.

Yup, we could go another 5 pages, but that wouldn't change the fact that DC was an active US Airways Pilot. You see, over here on the east, there is a lawsuit filed against AAA ALPA over that very issue. You reap what you sow.

I disagree with GN's assesment of Captain Collelo's position. But, he has the final word for now. The damage is done. You and I won't agree. That's ok. Thats the great thing about this country.

Interesting though, the AWA attempt to boot the former CEL off the seniority list list was ignored.

T8

 

[hockeypilot44]

If it is true that the East pilots presented doh to the arbitrator, then they need to get better lawyers. The Shuttle America pilots presented the same thing in the Chautauqua merger. It was a much smaller scale, but still shows that doh to arbitrator accomplishes nothing. History repeats itself again only on a much larger scale.

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

Hockeypilot, you can't tell the East pilots anything. They talk only to God and that's just because since they're older than him they think they're wiser.

AAA: "Always An A55hole"

 

[FDJ2]

I have no dog in this fight, but as an outsider looking in, DOH in and of it's self doesn't mean much in a seniority list integration, it's what your DOH brings to the table that matters and the expectations and assumptions that come with it.

Generally speaking, if you have 20 years of service and all your twenty years brings to the table is a reserve 737 f/o position, then there is no way you can justify being senior to a 10 year A320 captain based soley on your DOH.

I think people need to go back and examine what the goals are of ALPA's merger policy and examine how well the arbitrator did in meeting these goals.

1. The merger representatives shall carefully weigh all the equities inherent in their merger situation. In joint session, the merger representatives should attempt to match equities to various methods of integration until a fair and equitable agreement is reached, keeping in mind the following goals, in no particular order:

a. Preserve jobs.

b. Avoid windfalls to either group at the expense of the other.

c. Maintain or improve pre‑merger pay and standard of living.

d. Maintain or improve pre‑merger pilot status.

e. Minimize detrimental changes to career expectations.


Finally, you need to try to get this behind you or it will consume you and leave you a bitter and divided group and it is hard to imagine how that that will do anyone any good going forward..

 

[Doug Parker]

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STOP THE PRESS - FDJ2 actually makes sense.................




.

 

[Turtle21]

Hockeypilot, you can't tell the East pilots anything. They talk only to God and that's just because since they're older than him they think they're wiser.

AAA: "Always An A55hole"

You bring a new understanding to the "God is my Co-pilot" vanity plate. You should get one.

Only poblem is your co-pilot is convinced the capt is the devil.

Oh, what harmony will abound.

 

[TWA Dude]

From the AWA MEC Chairman:

Fellow AWA Pilots:
As most of you are aware, the MEC received the merged seniority list late last night under a directive by Chairman Nicolau to release the list at a specific time. That list and the decision is on the secure AWA MEC website and available for download.
The MEC is working with the Merger Committee and outside counsel and advisors to determine what the impact of all the conditions and restrictions will be and what effect and impact each of these conditions and restrictions will have on our 1865 pilots.
Clearly, I have concerns about this list. While on the surface it may appear to many that we prevailed in our ideas about the construction of the list, I will say that placing 517 AAA pilots on top of our Captain list is problematic. Add to this picture a potential change to Age 60 in the very near future (more on that in a bit), a potential third merger and/or industry downturn, and I start to worry.
I hate to be the wet blanket, but from prior experience, I know that this is just the start of a very long process to interpret and enforce the hearing board’s decision, and the pilots of America West pay me to look at and analyze that big picture. We will continue to analyze, interpret, defend and communicate to you as we learn more. Please remember that this merged list cannot be utilized by management until a joint contract is in place.

 

[vetrider]

I have no dog in this fight, but as an outsider looking in, DOH in and of it's self doesn't mean much in a seniority list integration, it's what your DOH brings to the table that matters and the expectations and assumptions that come with it.

Generally speaking, if you have 20 years of service and all your twenty years brings to the table is a reserve 737 f/o position, then there is no way you can justify being senior to a 10 year A320 captain based soley on your DOH.

I think people need to go back and examine what the goals are of ALPA's merger policy and examine how well the arbitrator did in meeting these goals.

1. The merger representatives shall carefully weigh all the equities inherent in their merger situation. In joint session, the merger representatives should attempt to match equities to various methods of integration until a fair and equitable agreement is reached, keeping in mind the following goals, in no particular order:

a. Preserve jobs.

b. Avoid windfalls to either group at the expense of the other.

c. Maintain or improve pre‑merger pay and standard of living.

d. Maintain or improve pre‑merger pilot status.

e. Minimize detrimental changes to career expectations.


Finally, you need to try to get this behind you or it will consume you and leave you a bitter and divided group and it is hard to imagine how that that will do anyone any good going forward..

Apparantly Nicolau and his two neutrals agree with you. I agree with you. Trouble is, the east can't seem to get past your first two paragraphs, you can't get any farther than that with them, by then they are screaming bloody murder in disagreement and hear nothing else. It is all spelled out in the opinion portion of the award. If the east can't accept the award, they darn sure aren't gonna get converted from a bunch of webboard posts. It is what it is though, we'll just see how this pans out.

I have a feeling we will both be playing in our own yards for quite some time, even if we were(hypothetically) all one unit tomorrow.

 

[fried chickens]

I flew with a bunch of the J4J guys and they are good bunch. It most suck to have 16 yrs at a company and then all of a sudden have to fly next to me in a RJ.

With all due respect to the east guys, I always thought that this "merger" was more of a buyout. The weaker company will lose in this case. Flipside to that, like others have stated, is having no job. Better to be a gear b!tch to a 10yr HP guy. Hell, plenty of J4J guys became flap boys for spikey hair, ipod listening, backpack wearing 20 something gods gift to aviation.

 

[PHXFLYR]

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STOP THE PRESS - FDJ2 actually makes sense.................




.

He does have his lucid moments every now and then,doesn't he?.........


PHXFLYR

 

[jj21211]

Everyone going after each other. Just what the company wants.
Score another for the man.

 

[trainer8]

Everyone going after each other. Just what the company wants.
Score another for the man.

I'm amazed at the level of professionalism here...especially the name calling.

T8

 

[WSurf]

I'm amazed at the level of professionalism here...especially the name calling.

T8

That's the problem Trainer, this circus we call a profession is going down the tubes! Is this job still a profession?
Look at whats happening in this country! The middle class is eroding, and it seems like its gonna be a two class society in this country!
Back in the 70's CEO's made 16-20 times more then there average worker! Now in this country you see CEO's making 300-400 Times as much money!! See the trend!
So with all thats going on, its hard to remain professional!

And I ask again, is this really a professional job?

Geez, it wasn't so long ago when someone retired from an airline job it was a big deal! Now it just a swift kick in the butt, and a so long see ya later!!!

 

[Swaayze]

Well, congrats to the AWA folks on your windfall.

I am exactly where I expected to be on the list, and am not surprised. But you cannot be serious if you feel Mondo didn't get screwed. Continuous active service since 1988 and junior to a 2005 hire from AWA, YGBFSM! The lack of fences (too small and will be revoked upon age 65 which seems to be on the fast track) seriously damages the progression of junior East pilots who had career expectations of massive attrtition. Now the AWA pilots will enjoy that attrtition.

Now, that said, this will be very unfortunate for all LCC employees. Right or wrong (and yes it's wrong but completely understandable) there will be ramifications from the East pilots that will hurt everyone. We gotta realize that the individual pilots from AWA are not at fault here and shouldn't be the target of our anger and frustration. OTOH the West posters here who offer misguided opinions as fact and who seem giddy that the East folks were spanked are fair game for those who still care. Have fun and good luck to us all, we'll need it!