ASA No Flap Ldg in SBN

[Lance Uppercut]

Actually, "I" didn't disarm them. They were disarmed somehow by the new guy I had with me, I assume during the after takeoff check when he was switching the reversers off. So, yes, it's my fault I didn't see the status message, especially after the flaps failed on approach. Then again, it was a CHA-ATL flight, so it's not like I flew around for 2 hours without noticing the message. Either way, I think "idiot" might be a bit harsh. Come to think of it, "ASAhole" might be a bit harsh also. Admittedly, I misspoke in my first post when I said "forgot to arm", so I understand the confusion. Then again, you might be just be a turd. Who knows?

A turd that notices where the GLD sw. is at...

 

[Avpilot]

Per part 25, the minimum ref speed for the certification of a transport category aircraft is 1.23 times VSO. That means if you have a 135kt ref and likely a min approach speed of 140, then you have a stall speed no higher than 110 kts, which is a 30 kt spread.

I have a lot of approaches at lower weights after coming from Houston to Boise or somewhere far that are in the 1 teens..apprch speed of say 117 or 119. The 135's also have lots of cases where the speeds are low like that. That would be about 18 or 19 knots above Vso....sorry it isn't 15. It was a guess...a ballpark number. My bad. Forgive me please.

 

[fareview]

guess those flaps don't do a lot for the CRJ... The Avro would go from about 120 with to about 200 at flap 0. Anyone know what the 744 would be no flaps?

744 Max ldg wt, no flaps = 233

 

[TX_DFW]

This seems to be a fairly common occourence lately. I did one in 920 about a week ago.

 

[Papa Woody]

The CRJ has some serious flap issues.

In the past 2 years, there have been more diversions due to "FLAP FAIL" than there have been due to weather.

Inasmuch as we carry alternate fuel to satify the FAR 91 requirement in case of diversion, shouldn't we be also carrying extra fuel for the more likely contingency?

Proposed FAR amendment for CRJ operators:
FAR 91.xxx IFR fuel requirements "Fly to the planned destination, miss the approach, then fly to a VFR airport with at least a 10,000 ft runway in case of flap failure"

 

[180ToTheMarker]

What are flaps?

F.L.A.P.s. = F'ckin Light Airplane Pilots

 

[tuna pimp]

I was on an ASA flight a couple of months ago that did a no flapper into YYZ. Captain did an outstanding job explaining the situation to the passengers; what to expect (shallower approach, higher speed, agressive braking, fire engines etc). Flight attendant did an extra strict job securing the cabin.

Absolute professionalism on both sides of the cockpit door from this ASA crew.

Captain greased the landing too.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

A turd that notices where the GLD sw. is at...

touche.

 

[wmuflyguy]

I was on an ASA flight a couple of months ago that did a no flapper into YYZ. Captain did an outstanding job explaining the situation to the passengers; what to expect (shallower approach, higher speed, agressive braking, fire engines etc). Flight attendant did an extra strict job securing the cabin.

Absolute professionalism on both sides of the cockpit door from this ASA crew.

Captain greased the landing too.

How do you know the FO wasn't the one that landed?

 

[captainv]

Proposed FAR amendment for CRJ operators:
FAR 91.xxx IFR fuel requirements "Fly to the planned destination, miss the approach, then fly to a VFR airport with at least a 10,000 ft runway in case of flap failure"

where's the fun in that? a zero-flap to 31 in LGA at night, now that's a good time.

truth be told, the winds were 310 @ 30, so it felt just like a normal approach. Captain greased it too.

 

[CarjCapt]

Max tire speed is 182. So hopefully it is lower than that.

At max landing weight the ref speed is less than Vtire, unless you land down wind or above MLO.

My first 0 degree landing (first flight for the CRJ to ATW) was nerve racking but uneventful. The next several 0 to <20 degree flap fail landings became SOP.

 

[FlightTraker]

CarjCapt,

I worked for OH in ATW at the time, I remember that


FlightTraker

 

[tuna pimp]

How do you know the FO wasn't the one that landed?

Guess I shouldn't assume that.

I'm not an airline pilot; if there is an emergency (of any magnitude) and the captain is the PNF on the leg would he typically take control of the aircraft? What is usually done in this sort of instance in a 121 enviornment?

 

[CFI2766]

Guess I shouldn't assume that.

I'm not an airline pilot; if there is an emergency (of any magnitude) and the captain is the PNF on the leg would he typically take control of the aircraft? What is usually done in this sort of instance in a 121 enviornment?

Not always the case...

I'm a relatively new hire on the a/c I fly, but I've already had two flights with recent captain upgrades where I've had more time in the airplane than the captain that I was flying with. In both cases each of the captains told me that if something went wrong, and I was flying the aircraft well, they would let me continue to be the pilot flying while they handled everything else. I don't know if it is taught that way, but it makes sense: if you are not flying the airplane, you have more mental capacity available to handle the abnormal/emergency situation.

 

[legalalien]

How do you know the FO wasn't the one that landed?

Don't know about other carriers but at ASA the Captains are the only ones who do no flap landings in the Sim. So it would make sense that they would do them in the aircraft.

 

[regionalcap]

In most emergencies (such as engine failure), I would think that most captains prefer to make the landing.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Not always the case...

I'm a relatively new hire on the a/c I fly, but I've already had two flights with recent captain upgrades where I've had more time in the airplane than the captain that I was flying with. In both cases each of the captains told me that if something went wrong, and I was flying the aircraft well, they would let me continue to be the pilot flying while they handled everything else. I don't know if it is taught that way, but it makes sense: if you are not flying the airplane, you have more mental capacity available to handle the abnormal/emergency situation.

Yes this is generally considered to be a good procedure since multiple-crew airplanes have been around. Unless it is a no-flap or other thing that I don't trust you with.

 

[OCP]

I was on an ASA flight a couple of months ago that did a no flapper into YYZ. Captain did an outstanding job explaining the situation to the passengers; what to expect (shallower approach, higher speed, agressive braking, fire engines etc). Flight attendant did an extra strict job securing the cabin.

Absolute professionalism on both sides of the cockpit door from this ASA crew.

Captain greased the landing too.

That was my flight and I can say it was just like the sim. Couldn't ask for a better day. Clear and a mil and a long runway. Flaps zero.
To answer another question about that, FOs don't train for no flap landings (don't know why) so the CA did the landing. (at least at ASA)

 

[Avpilot]

When I had my no flapper in the ERJ, I was an FO and I did the landing as it was my leg. Of course the captain let me know in clear terms that if I started screwing up, the show was over for me. Everything went ok and we kind of talked eachother through it. I was thinking out loud on everything so that he would be able to see what I was thinking/planning on doing next...and he gave advice on the approach as we came down.

 

[wmuflyguy]

Don't know about other carriers but at ASA the Captains are the only ones who do no flap landings in the Sim. So it would make sense that they would do them in the aircraft.

FO's have to do it in the sim here.