Compass one step closer

[Occam's Razor]

Why create yet another alter-ego carrier to compete in the portfolio?

The RJDC lawyers told us your last check bounced and they were facing a crisis making their yacht payments...so we agreed to create MORE RJ operators to help 'em out.

 

[DoinTime]

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeMerchant
The Compass agreement is a mainline agreement.

Correct.

The Compass agreement is actually a reprint of the Pinnacle agreement with new financial terms.

2. Brand Scope is a function of priorities. Personally, I think it's important, but would put it after a few other important items in my contract.

Brand Scope was all about saving whats left of this industry. Unfortunatley, because of guys like you who already have it good, future generations will lose out.

 

[Poahi]

Why didn't the NWA MEC agree to the Compass flying going to Mesaba and Pinnacle? Isn't that how "brand scope" is supposed to work????

Because it wasn't up to them.

 

[Occam's Razor]

The Compass agreement is actually a reprint of the Pinnacle agreement with new financial terms.

Really? The Flow-Thru, guaranteed placement for furloughed NWA guys, and advanced longevity pay rate agreement are in the PCL contract? I musta missed 'em.

My bad!

Brand Scope was all about saving whats left of this industry. Unfortunatley, because of guys like you who already have it good, future generations will lose out.

Holy Chicken-Or-Egg Batman! We have a sequence problem!

How exactly do I "have it good"...and do you think it is something that should be retained?

We probably could've given up even larger amounts of pay, and completely gutted our work rules to get true Brand Scope. Then, THEN, you'd be able to move up to...um...well...a sucky job.

Is that what you want?

Brand Scope is a good idea, but it ain't the only idea. From time-to-time pilot groups have to rank their ideas and make a Sophie's Choice. Sorry you don't like the way we chose. Next time, I recommend you skip the Airlinks and go right to the mainline.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

3. The point of the question was to illustrate this: No NWA mainline pilots have, or will, go to Compass. Our contract gives our furloughed pilots first crack at the jobs there, but it's also apparent that NWA will be recalling all of them to the mainline soon.

Excellent! And when does the call go out for newhires so I can shamelessly exploit my family connection??

 

[FmrFreightDog]

Many GoJet pilots are furloughed mainline pilots - union members at that.

I beg to differ there, Joe. I grant you there are some furloughed mainline pilots at GoJet, but they are most certainly not the majority nor do they exist in such numbers to be called "many". ALPA members are few and far between in the GoJet ranks.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Excellent! And when does the call go out for newhires so I can shamelessly exploit my family connection??

"4th Qtr" is when Flight Ops sez they're cranking up the H.R. Dept.

(I might try to fill one of the "line pilot" slots on the interview panel again just so I can ask the "Plane on a treadmill" question!)

 

[FmrFreightDog]

(I might try to fill one of the "line pilot" slots on the interview panel again just so I can ask the "Plane on a treadmill" question!)

If that's going to be an interview question, I won't even bother filling out the application. I'd most likely curl up in the fetal position in the interview due to flashbacks of having to read through the 10 page flightinfo thread on the subject.

By the way, you don't happen to be an ATL commuter do you?

 

[DoinTime]

Really? The Flow-Thru, guaranteed placement for furloughed NWA guys, and advanced longevity pay rate agreement are in the PCL contract? I musta missed 'em.

My bad!

Let me know how the scheduling section turns out.

Holy Chicken-Or-Egg Batman! We have a sequence problem!

How exactly do I "have it good"...and do you think it is something that should be retained?

Well...if you are an airbus captain your making at least $137/hour with workrules that are significantly better than ANYTHING found at ANY regional. You are preaching to the wrong crowd if you think your life sucks. Your profile shows your were a military pilot. Have you ever even worked at anything but a legacy carrier?

Next time, I recommend you skip the Airlinks and go right to the mainline.

If this was a serious statement you are so out of touch its amazing you even know how to turn a computer on.

 

[TurboAWD]

Next time, I recommend you skip the Airlinks and go right to the mainline.

Was that a joke? Do mainline pilots really think that way?

Yeah, I was thinking about going straight to mainline, but I didn't think my Ipod would go well with all the steam gauges on the Diesel 9, so I figured I'd work at 9E and fly a CRJ with all that neat glass untill NWA got rid of the DC9.

Perhaps I could of skipped the airlink BS if you guys hadn't given up the scope on jets. Well, at least you learned your lesson after giving up the 50 seat jets...and the Avro... oh, wait... you didn't. I know that USAir and United caving put you in a tough spot, but it was fairly obvious to everyone that NWA was not in the same position as those two airlines. And that stuff in the "Across the Table" notes on "industry leading" scope was B.S., plain and simple.

Turbo

 

[Rook]

Next time, I recommend you skip the Airlinks and go right to the mainline.

I know you said this to make your point and 99% of the time I agree with what you're saying regarding NWA/ALPA stuff...but dude that was harsh. But free speech is a wonderful thing so preach on Occam.:beer:

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

I think someone peed in Occam's Beerios last night. . . And he's normally so sage. . .

 

[saviboy]

and advanced longevity pay rate agreement.

Whats that?

 

[Occam's Razor]

Whats that?

It gives furloughed NWA pilots advanced longevity for pay purposes. eg: A furloughed pilot hired at Compass who had 2-years at NWA would start at Compass with 2-years for pay.

 

[N2264J]

1 . YOU don't have squat! I have Compass. It is my issue, and as a Northwest pilot, I am accountable for Compass existing. If it bothers you, I hope you get over it soon.
2. Brand Scope is a function of priorities. Personally, I think it's important, but would put it after a few other important items in my contract.

A Northwest pilot was called out on Brand Scope (BS) and now who's getting testy? By the way, the work of the BSIC was ALPA's highest priority (or so the resolution said) and it does become our issue when you help management create more alter egos that undercut regional payrates. We're not getting over it soon. It's our union too or do you hold to the plantation mentality?

Consider this:

The Northwest "brothers" got $15 million in bargaining credits for driving growth airplanes away from Pinnacle and Mesaba and ALPA let 'em do it.

Read about it here:

http://www.rjdefense.com/2004/110804up.pdf

and here:

http://www.rjdefense.com/2005/043005up.pdf

 

[Occam's Razor]

If that's going to be an interview question, I won't even bother filling out the application. I'd most likely curl up in the fetal position in the interview due to flashbacks of having to read through the 10 page flightinfo thread on the subject.

By the way, you don't happen to be an ATL commuter do you?

Nah, I live on the frozen tundra of Minnesota. Sure it's cold, but at least the taxes are high!

And not-to-worry about the "treadmill" question. First, the questions are all scripted. The HR staffer has a set, the management pilot has a set, and so does the line dawg. The only variables are the follow-up's.

 

[Occam's Razor]

A Northwest ALPA pilot was called on Brand Scope (BS) and now who's getting testy. By the way, the work of the BSIC was ALPA's highest priority (or so they said) and it does become our issue when you help management create more alter egos and undercut regional payrates.

"testy"? You got that right! My airline went bankrupt despite our best efforts to avoid it, and we got hammered. A lot of our goals, and dare I say it, "expectations", got put on HOLD. One of our goals was Brand Scope. We recognized that it would reduce pressure at the smaller-jet end of our contract. We also recognize, as you should, that achieving Brand Scope would have a very high cost...meaning it has to be prioritized with all the other goals we set for our contract(s). The priorities are set using a good ol' fashioned Cost-Benefit analysis. "How much does it cost for the amount of benefit we would get from it?"

From your perspective, the "benefit" side of that equation is obvious. It makes your career progression simpler. But I hope you understand that the "cost" side is 100% ours. You have no risk, other than the possible erosion of the job at the top end...the place you aspire to be.

It's our union too or do you hold to the plantation mentality? Consider this: The Northwest "brothers" got $15 million in bargaining credits for driving growth airplanes away from Pinnacle and Mesaba and ALPA let 'em do it.

Spare me the "plantation mentality" hooey! The career path for legacy airline pilots hasn't changed in 70-years...except now one of the entry-level jobs features a Shiny Jet. The vulnerability of a "normal career progression" to forces that seek to keep us underpaid and overworked hasn't changed either. ALPA does what it can to counter those forces...to the extent we're not wasting money on RJDC lawsuits or wrasslin' with each other over issues like Age 60.

Nobody flying for a Legacy carrier was born there. Each of us paid our dues. In some cases it was with multiple Airlinks and multiple Legacies. Please keep that in mind when you start to type about how much your regional job sucks.

You want to make Brand Scope a higher priority for Legacy pilots?

1. Stop whining about how much your job sucks. We know it sucks...from first-hand experience! No Legacy pilot will argue with you about it sucking. So you should consider whining a waste of energy.
2. Focus on the Benefit part of the equation. Point out that the size of the "threat" at the smaller-jet end of the spectrum is getting larger...in every sense of the word. Mention terms like "adjacent categories". The smarter one's will figure it out, and they're your target aurdience. (The stupid one's will NEVER figure it out)
3. Recognize the Cost, and do some balancing yourself. You want my job, but you would like it to stay as cool as it currently is.

Let me repeat: I want Brand Scope. I'm willing for hop in my canoe and paddle across the stormy water to fight for it, but I gotta wait until ice-out.

 

[TAWS]

BTW, Compass has already sent the initial cadre of mngt pilots thru FSI STL - on the 170 sim. What are they flying? ............ I don't know if they have anything in the air yet.

 

[IFLYIMC]

BTW, Compass has already sent the initial cadre of mngt pilots thru FSI STL - on the 170 sim. What are they flying? ............ I don't know if they have anything in the air yet.

You are right some of us went through in Dec and the rest in Jan. You ask what we are flying now? I will tell you, CRJ 200 all 10 of us.

 

[XJohXJ]

The one with "XJ" on the tail.