SWA or DAL

[SWA GUY]

Those are my thought exactly. DAL is just coming out of a very dark time, but six years ago SWA could not beg pilots to come there. One wonders if that my be the case in the next six years.
I have always wanted to do Int'l flying, but the Mrs. is from Ft Worth and really would like to move back.
It is a nice place to be, but also one that keeps you up at night.

I was hired six years ago. You couldn't get me to go anywhere else. YOU NEED TO GO TO DAL. I highly recommend it.

In fact, if you'll PM me your name, I'll make sure you go to DAL.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Funny

 

[Saabslime]

believe that DAL is on it was up. With its business model that is in place it will kick a$$ and take names. USA and B6 must be shaking in their boots about now

Yeah, we're terrified With Delta's genius business model of more and more RJ's, maybe you should just stay where you're at if it's DAL you choose. After their next downturn you'll be applying to get your old job back anyway.

 

[mdf]

Even I know you guys fly, on average, more legs than 3 legs a day. I talked to a friend of mine and his 4 day had 5 legs the first day, 5 on the second, 2 on the third which still had 7.5 hours, and 5 on the last day. He said he was exhausted. You can't fool anyone, you guys work the hardest. GL isn't lying.

It depends on how you bid, and where you are domiciled. DAL/HOU/OAK, yes I could see averaging 5 legs a day. I have been doing trips that average about 3 legs a day for a couple of years. All 3 on 4 off. Usually 4/3/2, 3/3/2, or 4/3/1 legs per day. Living in domicile weekday flying, and gone 2 nights per week, with approximately 18 days off per month. All while making over 100K as an F/O. I'm not bragging, I know it could all end tomorrow, but just trying to state some facts instead of the usual flight info disinformation. All this means for the original poster? Do your own research, don't listen to anyone else. That's what I did, and it has worked out up to this point. One other really key point. I really like going to work, make sure you go someplace that won't be a drag.

 

[mach zero]

Guys it is percentile. 65 percentile puts you in the top 35% of the pilots. IE 35 out of 100. Sorry to confuse.

In a response about my wife. She has some strong ties to the Dallas area and I do not. I agree 100 % with you and would not want a divorce. With that said I live in ATL and would have to move. Literally if I got the SWA job I think that she would move then next day. She wants back that bad. Even though she says that ATL is fine. Basically she was upset I did not take the World gig for DAL.
I would have to commute out of the Luv hub either way to see upgrade before I am 50. I am 32, but I am sure upgrade out of there will easily pass the 15 year mark. Either way I think that I will have to commute.
You all know that whatever an upgrade is not is not what it will be when you get there. We had that at my airline back in 01. We were hiring guys and upgrading them in six months. People jumped ship at places like Horizon to come here and they just upgraded after seven year.
I may be wrong but I do not see SWA being able to attain the level of growth that they have for the next five to ten years. They will have to plateau. It is inevitable.
You are correct in stating that DAL is on shaky ground. I think that the only place for the near term where that is not true is the cargo industry. SWA is a great place, I am just trying to weigh all of the pro's and con's I would more than likely have to quit my job at DAL to get the type. I cannot bypass there for a class that fits my schedule better. Like I stated in a previous post. I would not know until may and I will already be in class by then. That is a tough call to make. IMHO.

Wrong again...

Upgrade in KDAL domicile is 8 1/2 years right now. It will only come down since Wright is gone and they are adding flying here for the forseeable future. Yes, age 65 will affect it but KDAL will be growing so much, the end result is the upgrade there will fall more in line with the rest of the system. The union predicted KDAL will eventually be equal in size to KHOU.

We have traditionally grown at our present rate throughout our history. Gary Kelly is committed to keeping that growth rate in place. This is the reason we are currently putting together changes to our computer reservation system so it can handle international flights. This is also why we sent a team to Boeing to evaluate the 787.

I say again though, you should NOT take your SWA interview slot. You obviously have your mind made up for Delta as indicated by your previous posts and your avatar. You are wasting a slot that could go to someone who really wants to be here.

 

[USC***]

What ever airline you select, I'll be glad to take your spot at the other.....

I can't get an interview anywhere but I'll keep on trying!!!

 

[Champ42272]

IMHO, I would go with SWA. These are my reasons:

- Due to the current round of airline bankruptcies and restructuring, it is only a matter of time before the Air Transport Association convinces the government that the industry needs to consolidate to survive. SWA is not on the radar screen yet for any acquisitions or a target of hostile/friendly takeover.

- Delta and Northwest are prime targets for a takeover/consolidation.

- Already on this board we have begun to see the first steps of a US-EU Open Skies Agreement. That means that the trans-Atlantic market is going to heat up and require US airlines to become even more efficient since international margins will coming down. SWA doesn't play in that market and will likely not be affected much by an Open Skies agreement.

- The flight attendants are much better looking.

Just my opinion, I could be wrong.

Champ42272

 

[GuppyWN]

I'm biased but man I'd be nervous being brand new at an airline in bankruptsy. If a merger happens you're gone. Overlap happens and takes you with it.

Leave your options open. See what feels right to you. SWA was NOT my first choice. Delta was. Got hired. Then got a letter a month later says "sorry but we've re-elvaluated our needs and you're not in them." Picked myself up and got hired by AA and SWA at the same time. Chose SWA. Never looked back but if I did I would see that with the support of my family and open discussions like this that I was guided toward a decision I initially wasn't sure was the proper one.

Sucks to be you. Good luck bro. Enjoy it - you've earned it.

Gup

 

[Archie Bunker]

It is quite true. DAL can only go up and vice versa.

Dude,

Are you sure about that? You're talking about a company that has not yet emerged from Ch.11 bankruptcy. If I were you, I'd be more than just "concerned" in the event of a merger between Delta and some other large carrier. As a junior guy there, you will be cannonfodder, and could very well find yourself kicked to the curb with the merging of seniority lists. As a guy that was furloughed from Delta for 2.5 yrs, I can tell you that it's not fun.

While SWA may not be your cup of tea, there is stability there. This is a company that remained in the black when practically everyone else in the passenger airline industry was bleeding billions of dollars. This is also a company that has enthusiastic employees that love to work there...not exactly the case at Delta.

You should definitely interview at SWA, and see if you like what you see. I'd take the stability, a faster upgrade, and better pay at SWA over Mother Delta any day. Having "lived the dream" at Delta for 6 yrs, it's the smart move, in my humble opinion. Good luck with your decision.

 

[canyonblue]

In a response about my wife. She has some strong ties to the Dallas area and I do not. I agree 100 % with you and would not want a divorce.

With that attitude go to Delta and join the others who take a beating like a man. Need a new wife? There is one coming out of divorce court every :54. Go to Delta, you will fit in better. :laugh:

 

[Falconjet]

SWA any day of the week and twice on Sunday!

FJ

 

[Howard Hughes]

Dude,

Are you sure about that? You're talking about a company that has not yet emerged from Ch.11 bankruptcy. If I were you, I'd be more than just "concerned" in the event of a merger between Delta and some other large carrier. As a junior guy there, you will be cannonfodder, and could very well find yourself kicked to the curb with the merging of seniority lists. As a guy that was furloughed from Delta for 2.5 yrs, I can tell you that it's not fun.

While SWA may not be your cup of tea, there is stability there. This is a company that remained in the black when practically everyone else in the passenger airline industry was bleeding billions of dollars. This is also a company that has enthusiastic employees that love to work there...not exactly the case at Delta.

You should definitely interview at SWA, and see if you like what you see. I'd take the stability, a faster upgrade, and better pay at SWA over Mother Delta any day. Having "lived the dream" at Delta for 6 yrs, it's the smart move, in my humble opinion. Good luck with your decision.

Not to take anything away from your experience Archie but I want to quote myself from post #69

"Ha Ha, we all know its human nature to slant things in the direction a person might be going. Helps one feel better about the decision they are making. No offense intended on my part. I think SWA is a model all airlines could learn from without question!"

 

[Howard Hughes]

SWA any day of the week and twice on Sunday!

FJ

Hey, just out of curiousity would you leave Fedex to go to SWA?

 

[Turbojet]

This has been a good thread, and most people have put their .02 cents in without much name calling...nice to see. I usually don't post but this has sucked me in since I believed that this guy really wanted valuable input from those of us who have been in this situation. I had class dates with both United and Delta in early 2001 and went with United. I know what he is going through (even though he hasn't been hired at SWA yet).

You say that if you were hired by SWA, that your wife would want to move to Dallas the next day. To me that is the no brainer. Job stability, a happy family, quality of live and most likely more money for at least the next 10 years.

How many days off a month can you expect from working at Delta? Assuming you do move to Dallas and chose Delta, you will most likely be loosing 3-4 days a month on commuting. Take those 3-4 days a month over the year and that is 36-48 days a year....commuting. Over 28 years...3.1 years-3.6 years of your life....commuting! Thats a lot of wasted time that you could be instead drinking beer, fishing, playing golf, driving your boat...

Just remember there is only one thing that you can never get more of....time.

At your age going to SWA you will retire a multimillionaire with fantastic seniority. Im guessing that you are probably enamored with the allure of flying heavy jets across the pond. For alot of guys it is a total ego thing. Down the road though, if you live in Dallas and your neighbor is a SWA guy, dont feel bad when you see his truck in his driveway when you are comming and going on your commute to Atlanta.

 

[SWA/FO]

He's just in love with me.

she sure is spunky, huh?

 

[Jolly Roger]

If you take DAL over SWA it is a good thing... you wouldn't have passed our drug screen anyhow...

 

[Howard Hughes]

If you hear what he is saying its not as cut and dry as choosing SWA over Delta. Of course he hasnt even interviewed at SWA yet but for the sake of this arguement lets say he does have time to interview before he goes to Delta groundschool in April. Subsequently while just getting on the line at Delta he is offerered the job at SWA. Being a new hire at Delta would it be reasonable to think he would have the time to get the type? I dont know what is involved or how long it takes so maybe somebody could interject?

Anyway, my point is there are alot of things that would need to happen for SWA to even be a possibility at this point. I guess the first hurdle for him is to see if he can schedule an interview before he starts class at Delta and right now he doesnt know when either will happen. If I were him I would not do anything to jepardize my offer at Delta. SWA is a big maybe right now. Delta is going to happen unless some unforseen things happens. Whats that saying "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush". If he believes in Destiny then SWA will materialize if its right otherwise Delta will still be the standout option.

My feeling is that Delta is turning the corner and good things ahead but at the same time SWA is a very compelling company and a shinying star in the industry when compared to what others offer. This was true of Delta seven years ago as well. Who knows where we will be in another seven years? It would be fun to save all these posts and contrast with whats happening then. I can tell you the general tone on these boards regarding where to go HAS radically changed after watching four of the six legacies go into BK after 911. Prior to this time United, American, and Delta were all considered the "brass ring" with pay that demolished even the now three darlings of the industry, UPS, FedEX, SWA. To give you an idea I have the pay rates from Untited in 2000 in front of me. Twelve year Captain was as follows for these equipment types:

737- $226.60/Hr
A320- $254.01/Hr
757/767- $264.89/Hr
777- $316.48/Hr
747- $355.84/Hr

All this plus the A and B fund great work rules and overrides such as:

International $8/Hr
Night $15/Hr

In the late nineties United was making Billions and could do no wrong. That all changed very rapidly. These pay rates didnt help but it was alot of other things that ultimately sunk United/Delta to where they are now. They have just gone through the biggest cost shedding period in their history. They have good routes and going forward will make money again. I will be very surprised if a 787 or 777 Captain for example continues to make what a 737 Captain makes anywhere. The rates during BK have been taken to their lowest low and will only go up from here at the surviving legacies. Maybe one will still dissapear (we dont know). But all the legacies are not going to dissapear. You decide but over the long haul I remain bullish on a few of the Legacies after implementing the correct strategies/alliances. Which ones those will be remains to be seen. Id like to see Delta stay and United dissappear but I think both those two will make it in some form or another. OK, ending my long winded analysis ha ha.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I do thank you all for what you have said. I think that Mr Hughes hit it on the head. The point of this tread some three pages ago was to test the water. I did that. I was looking at some in depth analysis from people on both lists. I threw in a few of the things that will be plaguing me over then next month.
Of course SWA is the place to be. As stated I was thinking out loud. That place rocks. I have never heard one negative out of anyone I know there. Heck they do not even mind the five leg days. What I was asking is given my set of circumstances, is it a wise move to jeopardize one job or if hired, or quit to get the type. I would have to do that since I will not be dumb enough to turn down my first offer for a class date. DAL is where I have always though that I would go. But things change.
It will be a pain in the a$$ to try and schedule two weeks off to get to higher power if I am lucky enough to get it on my first shot. More likely than not I would have to quit. Not cool in my estimate. Like was stated people have always left one place to go to the next best thing, and it was a mistake. That is where I am coming from. Those are the issues that plague me. Either way I will be at a better place than I am now and that is a good thing.

 

[Howard Hughes]

IMHO, I would go with SWA. These are my reasons:

- Due to the current round of airline bankruptcies and restructuring, it is only a matter of time before the Air Transport Association convinces the government that the industry needs to consolidate to survive. SWA is not on the radar screen yet for any acquisitions or a target of hostile/friendly takeover.

- Delta and Northwest are prime targets for a takeover/consolidation.

- Already on this board we have begun to see the first steps of a US-EU Open Skies Agreement. That means that the trans-Atlantic market is going to heat up and require US airlines to become even more efficient since international margins will coming down. SWA doesn't play in that market and will likely not be affected much by an Open Skies agreement.

- The flight attendants are much better looking.

Just my opinion, I could be wrong.

Champ42272

IMHO a Delta/NWA hookup is a merger that might actually for once make sense. The synergies of Deltas Europe, South America presence with NWA's Asia would fit like a glove. Aircraft types is a bit of a problem. For some reason of which I dont know NWA doesnt seem too concerned about many types....maybe more focused on the savings by "right sizing" the exact aircraft to the route? I just dont know. For some reason I dont think this particular hookup would cause very much labor strife either (especially if employees from both sides felt like they needed each other to survive and thrive in the future) and I think most jobs would be preserved since there would not be alot of shedding due to the lack of overlapping routes. I guess what Im saying is a merger would not neccessarily be a bad things if it was the RIGHT merger (ie NOT AA/TWA or US/DAL). Sometimes there is some truth to that old addages "grow or die" or the other similar "Change or die". We will see.

 

[Slice121]

You can split the training up at HPA. Perhaps they'd let you do the GS and oral for free or a reduced fee. Then if offered the job, you could bang out the sim in 5-6 days...just a thought.