Abx?

[lonerock57]

Would anyone care to elaborate on tax issues of a LAX domicile?
Are you implying that you have to pay California income tax even if you live in another state?

 

[erichartmann]

Would anyone care to elaborate on tax issues of a LAX domicile?
Are you implying that you have to pay California income tax even if you live in another state?

It is my understanding that if you are officially domiciled in CA you have the dubious privilge of paying CA income tax regardless of your actual residence.

 

[LarryinTN]

I don't know the answer but have heard it both ways for non-resident, CA-based pilots:

You're taxed by CA if you're domiciled there, or

You're taxed by CA only if more than 50% of your flying is in/over CA.

Anybody know for sure?

 

[767pilot]

Anybody know for sure?

The state of CA has tried to tax UPS pilots that live outside the state but are based in ONT. They have not been succesful. They send out a scary letter but back down when challenged.

 

[LarryinTN]

Hey, they probably would have succeeded if they had tried to tax you back when you used to have all of those ONT layovers!

 

[inplaneview]

Anybody hear anything on a proffer? Time's a wasten'!

 

[ABXbooger]

The lack of a proffer is starting to make me wonder....

 

[freighthound]

The company probably wants to get the contract done before they hire, especially if there are changes in some of the benefits.

 

[LarryinTN]

I've heard March but nothing official.

 

[Jurassic Jet]

Just got wind of a big meeting in the Hoot tonight in the crew lounge.

 

[xspud]

Just got wind of a big meeting in the Hoot tonight in the crew lounge.

An update from the meeting would be appreciated, if you're there!

 

[HeavyjetDC8]

A meeting in the crew lounge? One of the prophets with a finger on the ABX pulse spewing forth tidbits of wisdom to his perpetually confused acolytes at a table gathering? How very special.

Actually, what I heard, from a verifiable source, was that.......

But no, best wait until the proffer comes out. Just remember that you read it here first.

 

[xspud]

A meeting in the crew lounge? One of the prophets with a finger on the ABX pulse spewing forth tidbits of wisdom to his perpetually confused acolytes at a table gathering? How very special.

I assume J-Jet is talking about a management meeting with the pilot group. If not, you're right, we don't need an update from the table gatherings. We can spread all the unverifiable rumors we like right here without the bother of going to H-ville!

 

[ABXbooger]

Well, was there a crew meeting last night? Anyone care to update, or PM.

 

[xspud]

Update on company website implies that the major hurdle is getting Japanese government approval. I would assume we have an excellent shot at receiving approval with ANA the driving force behind the application, but I assume we won't see a proffer until approval is forthcoming. I wonder how long the JCAB review typically takes, or if a foreign ACMI is unusual?

In the meantime, ABX has some time, some "breathing room" to get prepared for the "implementation phase". There is plenty of technical work which is presumably underway as we speak. And there is an opportunity to negotiate and communicate with the union/pilot group on how this would be implemented. I believe that we're prepared to do the "hard work" of getting this done, as the man said. We just have to be included in the process.

 

[abxaviator]

Pathetic, Inept, Wholly Incompetent, Total Joke, Unprofessional, Embarrassing…​

These – and other words and phrases – were used by ABX Crewmembers to describe Management’s performance at the crew meeting held Thursday night/Friday morning. Instead of a creating a win-win situation out of the ANA Charter opportunity, Management has turned it into a potential lose-lose proposition.

How did this happen? For the past several months the Management negotiating team – comprised of Bob Morgenfeld, Bob Boja, Mike Vollmer and Mark Detroit – has flip-flopped several times over whether they needed to negotiate International Operations. They recently fessed-up to being in negotiations with ANA, which is welcome news, but it requires serious discussions about international operations.

When attempting to negotiate international crew schedules, rest periods, hotels, meals, transportation and the like, the union negotiating team hit a brick wall. The Management negotiating team could not provide accurate information on block hours, number of crews needed, transportation, hotels … or anything else for that matter. Their response to the union’s questions was: we don’t know, we haven’t thought about it, and the like.

Reportedly, Joe Hete decided that ABX would simply open a domicile in Japan. The only problem is that the Company has to enter into negotiations under section 6 and negotiate the changes necessary to Article 14 (New Domiciles).

The union sent a section 6 notice to the Company, and Management responded by ordering the union to produce its proposal several work days in advance of the planned meeting date. Of course there were less than ten-days between the date of the letter and the Company’s imposed due date.

The union advised the Company that it had hired consultants to identify and advise the union on all of the issues involved in creating and staffing a foreign domicile. The union made it clear that it was not going to negotiate on this important issue from a position of ignorance. The union would need time to evaluate and determine the implications and ramifications of a Japan domicile on the Crewmembers.

The Company then resorted to their old tired tactic of creating a crisis to get its way … call a meeting with the crews, we only have 42 days to staff the Japan domicile! This ham-fisted attempt to get the crews to stampede the Executive Board into accepting an unacceptable agreement was stoked with Management’s cries of … It’s up to your Union.” (Interesting aside: Bob Morgenfeld had spoken with Dave Ross on Thursday, yet neglected to mention his plans for the crew meeting that evening.)

Of course, when pressed by the crewmembers the Management team was unable to answer any questions about how the Japan Domicile would impact pensions, 401(k) plans, taxes, health insurance (maybe United Health Care will reimburse a crewmember after he pays all the bills), housing, transportation, education of children, cost of living, etc. They also became exacerbated when asked how a crewmember could bid on this if they don’t have any of the information. Their answer was a curt: Just don’t bid on it then.

This bums rush tactic has never worked, and it never will. It only leads crewmembers to believe that their management is, well … pathetic, inept, wholly incompetent, a total joke, unprofessional and embarrassing.

 

[abxaviator]

Pathetic, Inept, Wholly Incompetent, Total Joke, Unprofessional, Embarrassing…​

These – and other words and phrases – were used by ABX Crewmembers to describe Management’s performance at the crew meeting held Thursday night/Friday morning. Instead of a creating a win-win situation out of the ANA Charter opportunity, Management has turned it into a potential lose-lose proposition.

How did this happen? For the past several months the Management negotiating team – comprised of Bob Morgenfeld, Bob Boja, Mike Vollmer and Mark Detroit – has flip-flopped several times over whether they needed to negotiate International Operations. They recently fessed-up to being in negotiations with ANA, which is welcome news, but it requires serious discussions about international operations.

When attempting to negotiate international crew schedules, rest periods, hotels, meals, transportation and the like, the union negotiating team hit a brick wall. The Management negotiating team could not provide accurate information on block hours, number of crews needed, transportation, hotels … or anything else for that matter. Their response to the union’s questions was: we don’t know, we haven’t thought about it, and the like.

Reportedly, Joe Hete decided that ABX would simply open a domicile in Japan. The only problem is that the Company has to enter into negotiations under section 6 and negotiate the changes necessary to Article 14 (New Domiciles).

The union sent a section 6 notice to the Company, and Management responded by ordering the union to produce its proposal several work days in advance of the planned meeting date. Of course there were less than ten-days between the date of the letter and the Company’s imposed due date.

The union advised the Company that it had hired consultants to identify and advise the union on all of the issues involved in creating and staffing a foreign domicile. The union made it clear that it was not going to negotiate on this important issue from a position of ignorance. The union would need time to evaluate and determine the implications and ramifications of a Japan domicile on the Crewmembers.

The Company then resorted to their old tired tactic of creating a crisis to get its way … call a meeting with the crews, we only have 42 days to staff the Japan domicile! This ham-fisted attempt to get the crews to stampede the Executive Board into accepting an unacceptable agreement was stoked with Management’s cries of … It’s up to your Union.” (Interesting aside: Bob Morgenfeld had spoken with Dave Ross on Thursday, yet neglected to mention his plans for the crew meeting that evening.)

Of course, when pressed by the crewmembers the Management team was unable to answer any questions about how the Japan Domicile would impact pensions, 401(k) plans, taxes, health insurance (maybe United Health Care will reimburse a crewmember after he pays all the bills), housing, transportation, education of children, cost of living, etc. They also became exacerbated when asked how a crewmember could bid on this if they don’t have any of the information. Their answer was a curt: Just don’t bid on it then.

This bums rush tactic has never worked, and it never will. It only leads crewmembers to believe that their management is, well … pathetic, inept, wholly incompetent, a total joke, unprofessional and embarrassing.

 

[hvydriver]

Ugh. I hope it works out for you guys. It sounds like we've got the same management teams. Don't let them paint you into a corner. It looks like your Executive Board is handling it well!

 

[penguin22]

Pathetic, Inept, Wholly Incompetent, Total Joke, Unprofessional, Embarrassing…


that pretty much sums up everything I've heard about last night too. Our Flight Dept management, when the task proves a bit daunting, is not exactly inspiring

Sounds like they put more planning into last nights menu... eggrolls, and was there sushi too?

I hear a bid is coming out shortly. Think I'll pass.

 

[scarface]

Yes, there was sushi and yes there will be a proffer for an Osaka base, according to last nights meeting, in the near future.

 

[80for80]

Yes, there was sushi and yes there will be a proffer for an Osaka base, according to last nights meeting, in the near future.

Make sure they put you up here. Free Japanese porn channel.

http://www.anagth.co.jp/english/

 

[inplaneview]

"...proffer for an Osaka base". I hope this is still posturing by the company and not an attempt to ram thru a shortsighted, ill-conceived plan. I believe I'll pass too.

 

[erichartmann]

"...proffer for an Osaka base". I hope this is still posturing by the company and not an attempt to ram thru a shortsighted, ill-conceived plan. I believe I'll pass too.

Based on what I have heard so far I have no plans to bid such a proffer. I think I'm probably senior enough to aviod a "junior man" assignment.

 

[Bitter]

What about those Junior folks that cannot pass. If or should I say when, they junior man all the FO slots, the junior FO could not bid out, because of the inability to downbid. They could not bid back to the 9 and bump a junior new hire.

I am all for growth, but at what cost.

 

[erichartmann]

What about those Junior folks that cannot pass. If or should I say when, they junior man all the FO slots, the junior FO could not bid out, because of the inability to downbid. They could not bid back to the 9 and bump a junior new hire.

I am all for growth, but at what cost.

So what are you saying bitter? Senior crew who don't want to do it should bid it to save the poor junior crewmember? Get real! It may be a raw deal but that's the way a seniority system works. You can always vote with your feet.

I am in no way saying I find the cost of this growth acceptable. If I liked the "deal" I would bid it.

 

[Jurassic Jet]

So what are you saying bitter? Senior crew who don't want to do it should bid it to save the poor junior crewmember? Get real! It may be a raw deal but that's the way a seniority system works. You can always vote with your feet.

Ahhhh. There's the good ole Teamsters 1224 mentality that we all know and love. Me me me me me me me. I got mine. Screw you.

Contrast this against the last sentence in the latest email from the union that is pleading:

"Above all, when it comes times to ratify this agreement, remember that your decisions will affect not only the lives of you and your family but by everyone junior to you on the seniority list."

Yeah. Right. 1224 members thinking about what's best for the entire membership (especially those junior to them) and the future membership beyond what they can get for themselves right now. uke: :laugh:

Now that's funny right there....I don't care who ya'are.

This is the farthest thing from a "union" I have ever seen.

The senior guys probably don't want to bid it until they can get it guaranteed in writing that they can go over there for 30 days, get paid for 15 days of overtime, and then come home and fly more overtime on their days off out of their domicile.

 

[Bitter]

So what are you saying bitter? Senior crew who don't want to do it should bid it to save the poor junior crewmember? Get real! It may be a raw deal but that's the way a seniority system works. You can always vote with your feet.

I am in no way saying I find the cost of this growth acceptable. If I liked the "deal" I would bid it.

You misunderstood what I was saying. I never said the Senior should save the Junior....I did not even intend to imply it.

What I was driving at, was that a junior crewmember would be locked into this for a very long time, due to the inability to down bid. The only way out of Japan would be to hold 767 ILN or upgrade. That would/will take years. While new hire 9 FO's junior to them would have a better deal, with a stateside base. This would surely be making a mockery of seniority. To junior to avoid it, to senior to get out of it!!

We need to negotiate an ability to downbid, so the junior folks can get out of a domicile, that no one wants. We don't like the deal any more than you........voting with our feet is not a very sympathetic option. Try to think with some unity in mind......

 

[ABXbooger]

If a junior pilot was "forced" into the 767 Japan, why couldn't he bid out at first opportunity? He didn't bid it, did he?

And eric, come on, what is up your a$$? the first mention of anyone senior having to deal with a junior person and you snap! Oh, I'm sorry you did make this company the great one it is. We should all have to suffer so you can do what you want.

The company is going to screw this up and blame us. Investors should be very seriously looking at our management and ask them why this didn't happen.

 

[Bitter]

If a junior pilot was "forced" into the 767 Japan, why couldn't he bid out at first opportunity? He didn't bid it, did he?

Not really the issue. Forced into it or not, you cannot downbid.

If the Japan domicile is a reality, the junior folks are there to stay, while new hires take there vacated seats in ILN.

So.....say yes to the ANA flying, but not a Japan domicile.

Anyone know if they have to recall the furloughs to fill unfiled proffers?

 

[xspud]

I pulled out the contract and couldn't even find the article that says we can't downbid, though as far as I know we can't unless surplused. There probably isn't any language about a crewmember who is assigned having the right to downbid? Anyone know the pertinent articles? If I read the contract correctly, management has the right to assign or hire into any unbid vacancies, their choice.

I'm not sure we'll get that far, though. As the SPC Comittee letter said, "This is an important opportunity that requires answers up front, much talent, and an open dialogue to pull off in a short period of time." This week's meetings will be critical. We'll find out if it's even possible to get answers and have dialogue.

I think it will be a shame if we don't. If ANA ends up with egg on it's face ABX is going to take a major credibility hit. It may be a long time before we see an opportunity like this again. I don't see anywhere that the union or pilot group has obstructed this deal, either. I think the majority of the group wants us to get this contract, even if they don't want to do it themselves. But the silence from management has, as usual, been deafening. If I depended on the company channels of communication, I would be completely uninformed. And the arrogance of the domicile presentation (ie: "we don't have to negotiate anything") is breathtaking. And I speak as one who is actually interested in bidding this; I am willing to move over there. But the lack of answers is scary.