Colgan new aircrafts

[n32jk]

Question? Are those 9E guys complaining on this web board the same guys that walked through DTW and MSP with a smile on their face as they replace Mesaba's flying with their fancy new CRJ's. Are these also the same 9e guys that while Mesaba pilots were fighting for their jobs just a few months ago couldn't get anything in writting from the 9E ALPA union that they would not fly struck work...even the NWA pilots publicly came out in support for Mesaba. Are these the same 9E guys that wouldn't take a Mesaba pilot with the same deal Mesaba gave 9E pilots back in the late 90's...yes you know what I'm talking about.
Now your whinning and crying because you feel your getting screwed by Colgan pilots. TOO BAD you've been doing it for years to the Mesaba Pilots now you get to enjoy yours.
Also how do you think NWA will respond to this. NWA has always wanted 100% control of their feed. Do you think your still getting those 17 CRJ with no pilot contract and now this.
I would be very concerned with how NWA responds to this...especially since they now own 100% of Mesaba and Compass will get off the ground.

Perhaps the pilots of 9E will see first hand what it's like too how bad it really can get.

Sorry guys but you deserve it.

Ridgeback,


You have absolutely no foundations of what you rant about. Your facts are just plain wrong. We are talking scope issues here. As for those 17 RJ's they are already here. And yes, they will probably go away at a rate of 3 per month cause there won't be a contract in time. Just as PCL and NW planned. BTW PT and bunch still get paid the profit of operations of those aircraft even when they go.....Sweet deal for management. As far as taking Mesaba flying, Bryan Bedford set the hub duality in motion when he talked NW into giving all Avro flying to Mesaba. The avros came to Memphis and all bets were off. Corporate greed at it's best. Mike Brady was unhappy cause he housed Bedford in his basement while they cooked the outstation basing plan at 9E in 95........Managment's sometimes even screw their own....Mesaba grew and 9E dropped down to 225 pilots. Then NW bought them,,,pumped aircraft into them and sold them for a tidy profit.... Sound familiar???? It is exactly what is happening to XJ now....It seems the SEC should look into sham of devaluing XJ just to buy them cheap.....

.As far as NW wanting to control 100 percent of their feed. They are not buying XJ to operate them nor are they building Compass to operate them either. They are doing this to SELL THEM FOR HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS within the next 2 years.....They still control the feed from both PCL and XJ make no mistake...


9E pilots deserve what??????

 

[Ridgeback]

They deserve to feel just how hopless and cold it can be. While XJ's were watched not only their flying disapear they got to see it disappear to an airline that was hiring 200hr Gulfstream guys that couldn't keep them in the air because the temptation to switch seats in mid flight, take photos of empty cockpits, and creating a 410 club that was the doom of two of their pilots. Mesaba pilots also got to hear about F16's being dispatched above DTW because the FA could Wake the pilots up from their nap. They got see how well a CRJ can go off roading in MKE. The list goes on and on. All at a time when the growth was GREAT for 9E, some 140 rj's. Mesaba guys can't get any support from 9e guys. I would suggest reviewing the agreement the XJ MEC made with the 9E MEC in the 90's, the one in which during bad times at 9E, 9E pilot were givin senority credit for time at 9E and welcomed into Xj Ahead of current xj guys. When the time came to recriprocate that agreement 9E MEC was like "well maybe not."


Now because 9E is feeling threatened by Colgan pilots their feeling cheated. Classic!

Years screwing over mesaba pilots......100

Years Cheating death and violations.....2000

Crying about Colgan guys doing to them what they did to XJ...Priceless

 

[Flyer1015]

They deserve to feel just how hopless and cold it can be. While XJ's were watched not only their flying disapear they got to see it disappear to an airline that was hiring 200hr Gulfstream guys that couldn't keep them in the air because the temptation to switch seats in mid flight, take photos of empty cockpits, and creating a 410 club that was the doom of two of their pilots. Mesaba pilots also got to hear about F16's being dispatched above DTW because the FA could Wake the pilots up from their nap. They got see how well a CRJ can go off roading in MKE. The list goes on and on. All at a time when the growth was GREAT for 9E, some 140 rj's. Mesaba guys can't get any support from 9e guys. I would suggest reviewing the agreement the XJ MEC made with the 9E MEC in the 90's, the one in which during bad times at 9E, 9E pilot were givin senority credit for time at 9E and welcomed into Xj Ahead of current xj guys. When the time came to recriprocate that agreement 9E MEC was like "well maybe not."


Now because 9E is feeling threatened by Colgan pilots their feeling cheated. Classic!

Years screwing over mesaba pilots......100

Years Cheating death and violations.....2000

Crying about Colgan guys doing to them what they did to XJ...Priceless

Awww, tell us how you really feel! Don't hold back. We won't bite, promise!

 

[DTWFO]

Question? Are those 9E guys complaining on this web board the same guys that walked through DTW and MSP with a smile on their face as they replace Mesaba's flying with their fancy new CRJ's. Are these also the same 9e guys that while Mesaba pilots were fighting for their jobs just a few months ago couldn't get anything in writting from the 9E ALPA union that they would not fly struck work...even the NWA pilots publicly came out in support for Mesaba. Are these the same 9E guys that wouldn't take a Mesaba pilot with the same deal Mesaba gave 9E pilots back in the late 90's...yes you know what I'm talking about.
Now your whinning and crying because you feel your getting screwed by Colgan pilots. TOO BAD you've been doing it for years to the Mesaba Pilots now you get to enjoy yours.
Also how do you think NWA will respond to this. NWA has always wanted 100% control of their feed. Do you think your still getting those 17 CRJ with no pilot contract and now this.
I would be very concerned with how NWA responds to this...especially since they now own 100% of Mesaba and Compass will get off the ground.

Perhaps the pilots of 9E will see first hand what it's like too how bad it really can get.

Sorry guys but you deserve it.

Guess you were gone the days that 9E guys walked the picket line with Mesaba during their contract talks....and when 9E guys volunteered for Mesaba's information phone line....and when 9E put out a booklet to every pilot explaining how NOT to fly struck work...I could go on and on but you obviously have no clue. By the way....NWA has no control over who Pinnacle can fly for anymore with the new ASA so I doubt anyone will be "concerned" with what NWA thinks about it. Please enlighten me as to how Pinnacle "took Mesaba's flying" when both Mesaba's and Pinnacle's flying comes 100% from NWA...........get a clue.

 

[DTWFO]

Now because 9E is feeling threatened by Colgan pilots their feeling cheated. Classic!

Years screwing over mesaba pilots......100

Years Cheating death and violations.....2000

Crying about Colgan guys doing to them what they did to XJ...Priceless

Wow I wasn't aware that Pinnacle was around in 1907.....and that we were cheating death in the year 7 AD! Damn.

 

[Lear70]

Guess you were gone the days that 9E guys walked the picket line with Mesaba during their contract talks....and when 9E guys volunteered for Mesaba's information phone line....and when 9E put out a booklet to every pilot explaining how NOT to fly struck work...I could go on and on but you obviously have no clue. By the way....NWA has no control over who Pinnacle can fly for anymore with the new ASA so I doubt anyone will be "concerned" with what NWA thinks about it. Please enlighten me as to how Pinnacle "took Mesaba's flying" when both Mesaba's and Pinnacle's flying comes 100% from NWA...........get a clue.

D*MN skippy.

I was one of them. In the fu*king a*s, freezing cold, single-digit temperature DTW weather.

Don't feed the troll.

This is for the Colgan guys reading this who might not understand the history that Ridgeroast is trying to skew.

First, Mesaba didn't buy Pinnacle, operate them as a separate certificate, and use Mesaba money to finance Pinnacle flying. (hint, that's what's going on with PCL and Colgan).

Additionally, as PCL was adding CRJ's, we were also losing Saabs.

Who did those Saabs go to?

Oh that's right, many of them ended up at XJ. I had several buddies upgrade because of those Saabs.

Pinnacle pilots didn't screw anyone.

Just like Colgan PILOTS aren't screwing anyone. This is about PCL management and THEIR intent to screw WHOEVER is in the way of their profits.

This is a completely different animal, and the Colgan guys are getting caught in the crossfire. Best thing the Colgan pilots could do is not say anything (gloating about it WILL get some people riled up) and work on getting the representation they WILL need under PCL management.

This should be an obvious sign of things to come for Colgan. If it happens now, it WILL happen again.

 

[XJohXJ]

/thread hijack

No, all other stuff aside, what happened at Mesaba was:

Mair (Mesaba holding) bought a non-union turbo-prop operator called Big Sky. The purchase, as well as Big Sky's non-stop quarterly loses, were entirely financed by revenue generated by Mesaba labor groups hard work.

Mesaba pilots won a scope clause in their 04 contract. Mair (Mesaba holding) is currently in some jerk-water Texas courtroom (where neither Big Sky, nor Mesaba operate!!!) trying to throw out said scope clause, so Big Sky can get big planes to earn MAIR CEO Paul Foley big money by paying Big Sky pilots crap pay.

Sound familiar? (I know, unlike Big Sky, Colgan is probably profitable.)


end thread hijack/

 

[redflyer65]

Ridgeback, Your clueless dude. It's like the history according to Ridgeback. It's not even close to the truth. Put the pipe down.

 

[Mr Wu]

WTFO!!! There's more Pinna$$holes in these Colgan threads than Colganites. Feck off and start your own threads, we'll drop by in a little while.

 

[BOHICAgain]

bump.

 

[suupah]

Bohica!

 

[Hamburger]

I'd love to hear from more Mesaba guys on this. I seem to recall them being pretty upset about Pinnacle a couple of years ago.. Maybe has something to do with how Mesaba has 49 Saabs and ONE RJ with 220 pilots on furlough while Pinnacle has 139 RJs. (source:airlinepilotcentral)

Is this a case of them getting their turn on the whipping post?

Don't forget, its MANAGEMENT that is the cause of your problems/grief. The line pilots for the "other side" are just guys trying to go to work.....

Unless, of course, GOjet is involved.

 

[1.3XVso]

Coligans

You bufoons are in for a early Thanksgiving this year!! You guys are gona get STUFFED up in your cooters... Keep on with the rant you'll get your stuffing sooner than u think.. HMMMMMMMMM that taste " SIMPLY THE BEST"

 

[vtchaz]

What is the defining line for Colgan vs Pinnacle flying?

First, Mesaba didn't buy Pinnacle, operate them as a separate certificate, and use Mesaba money to finance Pinnacle flying. (hint, that's what's going on with PCL and Colgan).

What exactly is "Pinnacle Flying"???? Which is yours and which is ours? By your reasoning, it seems, that everything additional or new we do AFTER the sale to your PARENT company (not your airline) is YOUR flying. Or is it just the pretty stuff like the Q400? I haven't heard anyone get upset about the additional SAABs we just purchased to do the EAS stuff out of West Virginia. Is that YOURS too?

Colgan as a company, everyone including pilots, have worked very hard to gain our codeshares and maintain a good service level on each and every one of them. THAT and that alone is what gains us contracts. We have the highest reliability rating and highest on-time ratings at almost every turn for each of our codeshares. Those are facts. Despute them if you want but they are published nubmers that can be checked. It's all the codeshares really care about.

Continental has been on Colgan specifically to get bigger Turboprops for almost 2 years now. We just haven't had the money to buy them.

Now, you can be upset that those planes are being financed with what you see as YOUR money. However, I'm pretty sure that the courts, the rest of the world, and yours truly see that as money belonging to the investors/owners. They made investments, including Pinnacle Airlines, and expect a return on their investment (which they are getting) and are free to reinvest their money WHEREVER they see fit! Do you think they would have ever put their money into you if the only option for them was to reinvest the money back in? I doubt it. Would you make an investment like that?

So stop comparing us to GoJets, etc. They are not the same situation. Your scope langauge is weak too, which is ALPA's fault, and it's not going to help. ALPA knows it too, otherwise they would have had something to say LONG ago. The reason they keep working on it, is because there isn't a leg to stand on. This is the union you want us to join? Works well for you?

Be upset at the things your management does to YOU. Be upset that YOU are being treated badly and paid at a substandard industry wage. I applaud you for working to change that.

But stop feigning concern for us poor good 'ole boys over at Colgan that just don't know about them thar type things.

Don't vent your frustration over your own impotence and inability to get a foothold in negotiations over YOUR contracts by trying to win a fight over here. WE will take care of ourselves. WE are a strong pilot group that up until now have apparently been satisfied, as a whole, with our management. IF that changes in the future, WE will handle it.

So thanks for the concern, but no thanks.

 

[Yodafly]

well said Vtchaz

 

[Justino2]

Lear70:
"This is a completely different animal, and the Colgan guys are getting caught in the crossfire. Best thing the Colgan pilots could do is not say anything "

best thing I have heard on any post.

Nice one.

 

[Prop2Jet]

Hey 1.3 Xvso"


"You bufoons are in for a early Thanksgiving this year!! You guys are gona get STUFFED up in your cooters... Keep on with the rant you'll get your stuffing sooner than u think.. HMMMMMMMMM that taste " SIMPLY THE BEST""

Was this comment directed at the pilots?

 

[Flyer1015]

What exactly is "Pinnacle Flying"???? Which is yours and which is ours? By your reasoning, it seems, that everything additional or new we do AFTER the sale to your PARENT company (not your airline) is YOUR flying. Or is it just the pretty stuff like the Q400? I haven't heard anyone get upset about the additional SAABs we just purchased to do the EAS stuff out of West Virginia. Is that YOURS too?

Colgan as a company, everyone including pilots, have worked very hard to gain our codeshares and maintain a good service level on each and every one of them. THAT and that alone is what gains us contracts. We have the highest reliability rating and highest on-time ratings at almost every turn for each of our codeshares. Those are facts. Despute them if you want but they are published nubmers that can be checked. It's all the codeshares really care about.

Continental has been on Colgan specifically to get bigger Turboprops for almost 2 years now. We just haven't had the money to buy them.

Now, you can be upset that those planes are being financed with what you see as YOUR money. However, I'm pretty sure that the courts, the rest of the world, and yours truly see that as money belonging to the investors/owners. They made investments, including Pinnacle Airlines, and expect a return on their investment (which they are getting) and are free to reinvest their money WHEREVER they see fit! Do you think they would have ever put their money into you if the only option for them was to reinvest the money back in? I doubt it. Would you make an investment like that?

So stop comparing us to GoJets, etc. They are not the same situation. Your scope langauge is weak too, which is ALPA's fault, and it's not going to help. ALPA knows it too, otherwise they would have had something to say LONG ago. The reason they keep working on it, is because there isn't a leg to stand on. This is the union you want us to join? Works well for you?

Be upset at the things your management does to YOU. Be upset that YOU are being treated badly and paid at a substandard industry wage. I applaud you for working to change that.

But stop feigning concern for us poor good 'ole boys over at Colgan that just don't know about them thar type things.

Don't vent your frustration over your own impotence and inability to get a foothold in negotiations over YOUR contracts by trying to win a fight over here. WE will take care of ourselves. WE are a strong pilot group that up until now have apparently been satisfied, as a whole, with our management. IF that changes in the future, WE will handle it.

So thanks for the concern, but no thanks.

Putting a lot of faith in the trusty ol' management at Nonconnah Blvd, are you?

 

[Prop2Jet]

If it was directed at the pilots then it is clear that you have little sense of how the business world operates and how you too are just an under paid pawn in this industry. It strikes me as being so odd that some people on here are so quick to stand atop their soap box and proclaim their "rights" to flying and that others that have no vote, no say, nor no care in the matter, are scorned by the like if their management decides their fate for them.

We did not create nor did we want your mess and vis'-versa. The situation stands as is. It is up to people, whom like yourself make it more challenging, to get a long with the current dilemma. I can understand wanting vent and blame us, but we did not create the problem.

In terms of speaking about Union actions and legalistic actions; shouldn't that remain behind closed doors? Why speak of legal actions, fillings, and protests on a public board. No one who can make a difference would read these immature or lack lustering threads and feel they have been impacted in some way other than a laugh.

If you are pissed off, fine be pissed off, but don't take it out upon your co-workers, who just like you, are a pawn in the big man's game. Personal attacks on Colgan pilots will only further the divide created by a few immature individuals on these boards.

Some things will never change though and I hope for some reading this post might sway your next post away from being negative.

 

[suupah]

Justino rules

 

[suupah]

pinnacle guys,

Wait and see what happens on the colgan side before you judge

 

[vtchaz]

Putting a lot of faith in the trusty ol' management at Nonconnah Blvd, are you?

No just haven't lost my faith and trust in the ones at Avaiation Lane in Manassas VA.

 

[Snaab]

No just haven't lost my faith and trust in the ones at Avaiation Lane in Manassas VA.

At least there are two of us.

 

[Flyer1015]

No just haven't lost my faith and trust in the ones at Avaiation Lane in Manassas VA.

Trust airline management? Thought that was only at Southwest?

Even though Colgan will remain a separate entity, the Colgan management will be controlled by PT the Clown!



Why do I have a feeling that one day, 70-76 seater RJs will be dangled in front of Colgan as carrot, while PT pressures Pinnacle pilots into accepting a substandard crappy contract?

 

[PCL_128]

No just haven't lost my faith and trust in the ones at Avaiation Lane in Manassas VA.

Too bad they aren't in control of your airline anymore.

 

[vtchaz]

We trust the devil we know

Too bad they aren't in control of your airline anymore.

Says you. As of now there are no changes being made we don't like. We recognize that may change in the future, but most aren't willing to make such a huge change as bringing in a union before that happens.

I know you say that it will be too late then, but many of us feel differently.

You ask us to put our blind faith into ALPA, a devil we are unfirmiliar with. ALPA is the one that got you that substandard industry contract right? ALPA is the one that signed off on scope language that doesn't protect you at all in a situation like this, right?

Sounds like you guys should be rexamining your faith in your union and not just your management. Just my opinion.

Good luck to everyone.

 

[dingo222]

Too bad they aren't in control of your airline anymore.

They have a lot of control until that 10 mil stock certificate matures in one year. Then, anything is fair game

 

[PCL_128]

Says you. As of now there are no changes being made we don't like. We recognize that may change in the future, but most aren't willing to make such a huge change as bringing in a union before that happens.

I know you say that it will be too late then, but many of us feel differently.

Why do you choose to learn things the hard way? Look at the industry around you. This game has already been played many times before, and the only winners are the managers. We need to work together to prevent that same outcome this time around.

ALPA is the one that got you that substandard industry contract right?

That contract was signed in '99. At the time, it was a pretty good contract for a Saab operator. We had no jets back then.

ALPA is the one that signed off on scope language that doesn't protect you at all in a situation like this, right?

That's your interpretation. We'll see what happens.

 

[1.3XVso]

Pcl

Just give it up dude. These guys are ignorant and scared. Scared that if they try to form some type of organization that there gona get sliced up. There now suffering from SPS(shiny PROP Synd) and thats the begining of dangling that piece of carrot... Enjoy the carrots coligans!

 

[PCL_128]

Just give it up dude. These guys are ignorant and scared.

Actually, the majority of them aren't. It's just a few guys on here. Most of the Colgan pilots are smart enough to see what is really going on here. I'm not worried about what our Colgan brothers will do.