Colgan new aircrafts

[suupah]

Bohica!

 

[Hamburger]

I'd love to hear from more Mesaba guys on this. I seem to recall them being pretty upset about Pinnacle a couple of years ago.. Maybe has something to do with how Mesaba has 49 Saabs and ONE RJ with 220 pilots on furlough while Pinnacle has 139 RJs. (source:airlinepilotcentral)

Is this a case of them getting their turn on the whipping post?

Don't forget, its MANAGEMENT that is the cause of your problems/grief. The line pilots for the "other side" are just guys trying to go to work.....

Unless, of course, GOjet is involved.

 

[1.3XVso]

Coligans

You bufoons are in for a early Thanksgiving this year!! You guys are gona get STUFFED up in your cooters... Keep on with the rant you'll get your stuffing sooner than u think.. HMMMMMMMMM that taste " SIMPLY THE BEST"

 

[vtchaz]

What is the defining line for Colgan vs Pinnacle flying?

First, Mesaba didn't buy Pinnacle, operate them as a separate certificate, and use Mesaba money to finance Pinnacle flying. (hint, that's what's going on with PCL and Colgan).

What exactly is "Pinnacle Flying"???? Which is yours and which is ours? By your reasoning, it seems, that everything additional or new we do AFTER the sale to your PARENT company (not your airline) is YOUR flying. Or is it just the pretty stuff like the Q400? I haven't heard anyone get upset about the additional SAABs we just purchased to do the EAS stuff out of West Virginia. Is that YOURS too?

Colgan as a company, everyone including pilots, have worked very hard to gain our codeshares and maintain a good service level on each and every one of them. THAT and that alone is what gains us contracts. We have the highest reliability rating and highest on-time ratings at almost every turn for each of our codeshares. Those are facts. Despute them if you want but they are published nubmers that can be checked. It's all the codeshares really care about.

Continental has been on Colgan specifically to get bigger Turboprops for almost 2 years now. We just haven't had the money to buy them.

Now, you can be upset that those planes are being financed with what you see as YOUR money. However, I'm pretty sure that the courts, the rest of the world, and yours truly see that as money belonging to the investors/owners. They made investments, including Pinnacle Airlines, and expect a return on their investment (which they are getting) and are free to reinvest their money WHEREVER they see fit! Do you think they would have ever put their money into you if the only option for them was to reinvest the money back in? I doubt it. Would you make an investment like that?

So stop comparing us to GoJets, etc. They are not the same situation. Your scope langauge is weak too, which is ALPA's fault, and it's not going to help. ALPA knows it too, otherwise they would have had something to say LONG ago. The reason they keep working on it, is because there isn't a leg to stand on. This is the union you want us to join? Works well for you?

Be upset at the things your management does to YOU. Be upset that YOU are being treated badly and paid at a substandard industry wage. I applaud you for working to change that.

But stop feigning concern for us poor good 'ole boys over at Colgan that just don't know about them thar type things.

Don't vent your frustration over your own impotence and inability to get a foothold in negotiations over YOUR contracts by trying to win a fight over here. WE will take care of ourselves. WE are a strong pilot group that up until now have apparently been satisfied, as a whole, with our management. IF that changes in the future, WE will handle it.

So thanks for the concern, but no thanks.

 

[Yodafly]

well said Vtchaz

 

[Justino2]

Lear70:
"This is a completely different animal, and the Colgan guys are getting caught in the crossfire. Best thing the Colgan pilots could do is not say anything "

best thing I have heard on any post.

Nice one.

 

[Prop2Jet]

Hey 1.3 Xvso"


"You bufoons are in for a early Thanksgiving this year!! You guys are gona get STUFFED up in your cooters... Keep on with the rant you'll get your stuffing sooner than u think.. HMMMMMMMMM that taste " SIMPLY THE BEST""

Was this comment directed at the pilots?

 

[Flyer1015]

What exactly is "Pinnacle Flying"???? Which is yours and which is ours? By your reasoning, it seems, that everything additional or new we do AFTER the sale to your PARENT company (not your airline) is YOUR flying. Or is it just the pretty stuff like the Q400? I haven't heard anyone get upset about the additional SAABs we just purchased to do the EAS stuff out of West Virginia. Is that YOURS too?

Colgan as a company, everyone including pilots, have worked very hard to gain our codeshares and maintain a good service level on each and every one of them. THAT and that alone is what gains us contracts. We have the highest reliability rating and highest on-time ratings at almost every turn for each of our codeshares. Those are facts. Despute them if you want but they are published nubmers that can be checked. It's all the codeshares really care about.

Continental has been on Colgan specifically to get bigger Turboprops for almost 2 years now. We just haven't had the money to buy them.

Now, you can be upset that those planes are being financed with what you see as YOUR money. However, I'm pretty sure that the courts, the rest of the world, and yours truly see that as money belonging to the investors/owners. They made investments, including Pinnacle Airlines, and expect a return on their investment (which they are getting) and are free to reinvest their money WHEREVER they see fit! Do you think they would have ever put their money into you if the only option for them was to reinvest the money back in? I doubt it. Would you make an investment like that?

So stop comparing us to GoJets, etc. They are not the same situation. Your scope langauge is weak too, which is ALPA's fault, and it's not going to help. ALPA knows it too, otherwise they would have had something to say LONG ago. The reason they keep working on it, is because there isn't a leg to stand on. This is the union you want us to join? Works well for you?

Be upset at the things your management does to YOU. Be upset that YOU are being treated badly and paid at a substandard industry wage. I applaud you for working to change that.

But stop feigning concern for us poor good 'ole boys over at Colgan that just don't know about them thar type things.

Don't vent your frustration over your own impotence and inability to get a foothold in negotiations over YOUR contracts by trying to win a fight over here. WE will take care of ourselves. WE are a strong pilot group that up until now have apparently been satisfied, as a whole, with our management. IF that changes in the future, WE will handle it.

So thanks for the concern, but no thanks.

Putting a lot of faith in the trusty ol' management at Nonconnah Blvd, are you?

 

[Prop2Jet]

If it was directed at the pilots then it is clear that you have little sense of how the business world operates and how you too are just an under paid pawn in this industry. It strikes me as being so odd that some people on here are so quick to stand atop their soap box and proclaim their "rights" to flying and that others that have no vote, no say, nor no care in the matter, are scorned by the like if their management decides their fate for them.

We did not create nor did we want your mess and vis'-versa. The situation stands as is. It is up to people, whom like yourself make it more challenging, to get a long with the current dilemma. I can understand wanting vent and blame us, but we did not create the problem.

In terms of speaking about Union actions and legalistic actions; shouldn't that remain behind closed doors? Why speak of legal actions, fillings, and protests on a public board. No one who can make a difference would read these immature or lack lustering threads and feel they have been impacted in some way other than a laugh.

If you are pissed off, fine be pissed off, but don't take it out upon your co-workers, who just like you, are a pawn in the big man's game. Personal attacks on Colgan pilots will only further the divide created by a few immature individuals on these boards.

Some things will never change though and I hope for some reading this post might sway your next post away from being negative.

 

[suupah]

Justino rules

 

[suupah]

pinnacle guys,

Wait and see what happens on the colgan side before you judge

 

[vtchaz]

Putting a lot of faith in the trusty ol' management at Nonconnah Blvd, are you?

No just haven't lost my faith and trust in the ones at Avaiation Lane in Manassas VA.

 

[Snaab]

No just haven't lost my faith and trust in the ones at Avaiation Lane in Manassas VA.

At least there are two of us.

 

[Flyer1015]

No just haven't lost my faith and trust in the ones at Avaiation Lane in Manassas VA.

Trust airline management? Thought that was only at Southwest?

Even though Colgan will remain a separate entity, the Colgan management will be controlled by PT the Clown!



Why do I have a feeling that one day, 70-76 seater RJs will be dangled in front of Colgan as carrot, while PT pressures Pinnacle pilots into accepting a substandard crappy contract?

 

[PCL_128]

No just haven't lost my faith and trust in the ones at Avaiation Lane in Manassas VA.

Too bad they aren't in control of your airline anymore.

 

[vtchaz]

We trust the devil we know

Too bad they aren't in control of your airline anymore.

Says you. As of now there are no changes being made we don't like. We recognize that may change in the future, but most aren't willing to make such a huge change as bringing in a union before that happens.

I know you say that it will be too late then, but many of us feel differently.

You ask us to put our blind faith into ALPA, a devil we are unfirmiliar with. ALPA is the one that got you that substandard industry contract right? ALPA is the one that signed off on scope language that doesn't protect you at all in a situation like this, right?

Sounds like you guys should be rexamining your faith in your union and not just your management. Just my opinion.

Good luck to everyone.

 

[dingo222]

Too bad they aren't in control of your airline anymore.

They have a lot of control until that 10 mil stock certificate matures in one year. Then, anything is fair game

 

[PCL_128]

Says you. As of now there are no changes being made we don't like. We recognize that may change in the future, but most aren't willing to make such a huge change as bringing in a union before that happens.

I know you say that it will be too late then, but many of us feel differently.

Why do you choose to learn things the hard way? Look at the industry around you. This game has already been played many times before, and the only winners are the managers. We need to work together to prevent that same outcome this time around.

ALPA is the one that got you that substandard industry contract right?

That contract was signed in '99. At the time, it was a pretty good contract for a Saab operator. We had no jets back then.

ALPA is the one that signed off on scope language that doesn't protect you at all in a situation like this, right?

That's your interpretation. We'll see what happens.

 

[1.3XVso]

Pcl

Just give it up dude. These guys are ignorant and scared. Scared that if they try to form some type of organization that there gona get sliced up. There now suffering from SPS(shiny PROP Synd) and thats the begining of dangling that piece of carrot... Enjoy the carrots coligans!

 

[PCL_128]

Just give it up dude. These guys are ignorant and scared.

Actually, the majority of them aren't. It's just a few guys on here. Most of the Colgan pilots are smart enough to see what is really going on here. I'm not worried about what our Colgan brothers will do.