Pinnacle purchases 15 Q400

[PCL_128]

10-15 minutes over block? So your actually 25-30 minutes getting paid for 10-15

No, genius. I guess I'll have to give you a typical example since this "complex" addition is getting the best of you. From my trip this week:

DTW-YQB
Leg Value: 1:58
Actual Block: 1:46
I got paid: 1:58 (12 minutes more than actual block)

No "free" 15 minutes as you claim. Sorry to disappoint.

 

[Dirty Sanchez]

You'll be hearing from us soon. Try to be patient. It wouldn't be smart to make a snap decision. We've talked with legal in the past few days, and we'll be having another meeting this week to decide on our course of action.

BS!

Union rep from company website-

"This union operates as a representative democracy. You elected us to represent your interests. Unfortunately, it's not possible or wise to give a legal briefing to the entire membership. That's why you have elected reps. What you ask would be akin to expecting the President's National Security Adviser to give a televised briefing to the entire nation."

I didn't aks for a snap decision, just for some information. You ALPA "reps" act like it is going to ruin the lawsuit if we find out anything about what's going on. If the case has merit, who cares what we know about it. I am sure the company has some good lawyers of its own and they don't need to eavesdrop on our pilot meetings or conference calls to determine their course of action.

 

[Dirty Sanchez]

The BEST thing your pilot group could do is approach PCL ALPA and start a union drive for Colgan pilots NOW.

If you don't, then the rest of the industry will know where you stand. I'm not going to make airline comparisons, I'm sure you know of many precedents for this, but it would be AMAZINGLY refreshing to see a group of pilots put their foot down against the whipsawing that has taken over this industry.

Lear70,
I don't have anything against a single pilot at PCL, BUT that kind of innuendo isn't going to foster alot of "brotherhood". I've stated this before, and I will state it again. I respect the fact that you guys are in a labor negotiating mode with your management, but at the same time we as 9L pilots have worked hard to EARN the additional flying on our certificate and existing codeshares. Using your logic of any "new" flying as your basis for a breech of contract on your agreement with PCL managment, do you feel PCL pilots should be flying the FOUR additional Saab 340s that will be flying for USAirways on an EAS contract in Parkersburg and Morgantown, WV? I suggest you answer very carefully and thoughtfully. We are listening and waiting.

Regards,

ex-Navy Rotorhead

Actually- we worked hard at 9E to make the company money to buy yours some additional flying.

 

[PCL_128]

BS!

Union rep from company website-

"This union operates as a representative democracy. You elected us to represent your interests. Unfortunately, it's not possible or wise to give a legal briefing to the entire membership. That's why you have elected reps. What you ask would be akin to expecting the President's National Security Adviser to give a televised briefing to the entire nation."

I didn't aks for a snap decision, just for some information. You ALPA "reps" act like it is going to ruin the lawsuit if we find out anything about what's going on. If the case has merit, who cares what we know about it. I am sure the company has some good lawyers of its own and they don't need to eavesdrop on our pilot meetings or conference calls to determine their course of action.

As I've said before, we'll provide information after a full review has been accomplished, and a plan of action has been decided upon. Legal briefings from the attorneys include many pieces of information that we don't want to get into the hands of management. I don't think it's too much to ask for you to be patient and wait a few more days for some information. If you have concerns, then call one of us instead of attacking us on a public message board. The union rep you quoted above is me. My phone number and email address are available to you in the Climb and Maintain and on our website. I'd be more than happy to answer any questions you have, as would any other rep.

 

[Ridgeback]

No, genius. I guess I'll have to give you a typical example since this "complex" addition is getting the best of you. From my trip this week:

DTW-YQB
Leg Value: 1:58
Actual Block: 1:46
I got paid: 1:58 (12 minutes more than actual block)

No "free" 15 minutes as you claim. Sorry to disappoint.

OK Genius

That's called "block"....What about the "better" part. Please "educate" me on what happens when you fly that sam leg value of 1:58 at an actual time of 2:14....that's what I thout you get to work for 15 minutes free and you get paid for 1:59....a whoppen 1 minute extra....

Seems I know more about your contract than you and I don't even work there

 

[PCL_128]

OK Genius

That's called "block"....What about the "better" part. Please "educate" me on what happens when you fly that sam leg value of 1:58 at an actual time of 2:14....that's what I thout you get to work for 15 minutes free and you get paid for 1:59....a whoppen 1 minute extra....

Seems I know more about your contract than you and I don't even work there

As I said earlier, the "better" that you refer to is only equal to about 1% extra on the W2 each year. Something to demand in the next contract? Absolutely. Something to get all worked up over now? No, not really.

 

[Ridgeback]

Then I guess you should have no problem getting that in your next contrat...afterall it's only 1%

 

[PCL_128]

Then I guess you should have no problem getting that in your next contrat...afterall it's only 1%

I don't anticipate it being a major issue. Retro pay, junior-mans/extensions, etc... are the big-ticket items. Block-or-better is pretty much a given.

 

[DTWFO]

Now before you all question my sources, please review my very first post in which I broke the news that 9E was getting 17 more CRJ's almost 48 hours before the press release. I am and do have very reliable sources, sources which I cannot and will not betray.

Yawn.........who gives a f@#$!

 

[DTWFO]

9E ALPA better get some info out to the pilots soon or they are going to have a mess on their hands. ALPA has had plenty of time to "review" things. How much time do you need??? At this rate, the airplanes will be flying around before any info is forthcoming. Lets get a move on already! You can't keep people in the dark forever and expect them to just "be patient".

 

[Lear70]

I'm sorry, I think I missed it. Please tell me again. What is the advantage of having a union?

The advantage, genius, is having the chance to EVER get it back.

Without a union, I'd simply bow my head, stick my hands in my pockets and say, "Please Mr. Manager, I'd like the $3,698.23 the company has stiffed me for over the last 5 years. No? Ummm... OK, thanks anyway."

WITH a union, I file a grievance and get the chance to have an arbitrator FORCE the company to pay up.

One way, you have alternatives. The other, you just BOHICA.

I think I still have about 9 unused comp days,,, think I can still ask for "pay in lieu of" per the side letter the company signed to fix that MEC grievance?

I don't have anything against a single pilot at PCL, BUT that kind of innuendo isn't going to foster alot of "brotherhood".

Possibly. But neither is the nonsense VTChaz is posting.

I've stated this before, and I will state it again. I respect the fact that you guys are in a labor negotiating mode with your management, but at the same time we as 9L pilots have worked hard to EARN the additional flying on our certificate and existing codeshares.

I'm not in ANY way trying to diminish your hard work. I'm sure you have a great group of pilots.

The question isn't whether you "deserve" growth, the question is how Pinnacle DELIBERATELY AND INTENTIONALLY PURCHASED YOU TO GET AROUND THE PINNACLE PILOTS AND GROW ELSEWHERE. How is THAT fair or right?

Using your logic of any "new" flying as your basis for a breech of contract on your agreement with PCL managment, do you feel PCL pilots should be flying the FOUR additional Saab 340s that will be flying for USAirways on an EAS contract in Parkersburg and Morgantown, WV? I suggest you answer very carefully and thoughtfully. We are listening and waiting.

Regards,

ex-Navy Rotorhead

A valid question. I don't have enough facts to answer. It hinges on one question: was the contract signed by Colgan executives and were the hulls purchased with Colgan assets PRIOR TO the purchase of Colgan Airlines by Pinnacle Airlines?

If the answer to that is yes, then it absolutely is Colgan flying, regardless of when the flying begins.

If the answer to that is no, and Pinnacle Airlines funded the acquisition of those hulls and Phil Trenary's signature is on that dotted line, then that flying, BY LAW and contractual intent, goes to Pinnacle pilots.

Again, I'm not trying to attack your pilots and say you shouldn't grow. I'm simply saying that if Pinnacle is funding the growth, the growth should be happening at Pinnacle.

It's not just my opinion, it's the fact of the Scope clause, how it reads, and the intent of the people who signed the Agreement back in the day. The whole POINT of that section was to avoid what is going on now; that will come out in the legal proceedings.

Join ranks (I know all of the MEC reps personally, and I'd bet a C-note the majority would probably agree to DOH), and you guys will grow TOGETHER.

 

[Lear70]

I don't anticipate it being a major issue. Retro pay, junior-mans/extensions, etc... are the big-ticket items. Block-or-better is pretty much a given.

You forgot to mention pay rates.

I agree; I've always said the block or better system didn't matter much at PCL because of how drastically they over-credited the legs to begin with.

Old news.

PCL: you're feeding the troll. Back away slowly. Go get a beer.

 

[Kaman]

As far as I know DOT awarded Colgan the contract prior to 18 JAn 07, however, I don't think that any of the contract has been executed. The airplanes are actually 4 of the 7 remaining in Millington that are owned by Pinnacle?
Like I said, no personal axe to grind here. I put my uniform and head off to work just like your guys do, and I respect your position on the issues at hand. Here is a hypothetical for you...What if PCL Holdings were to propose operating more SAABs on the United codeshare? the same routes? Supplementing the SAABs already operating? Would you feel ethically and morally entitled to fly those airplanes?
This is a whipsaw that has the potential to work both ways. I don't think that it makes good business sense to integrate the seniority lists and I can only speak for myself and I don't support it. I am not naive enough to trust managment 100% nor am I inclined to trust ALPA, especially PCL ALPA 100%.
I am confused by one point of detail though...Why would your MEC be scrambling to add a scope letter in your contract at this late date? Perhaps the language in the original scope wasn't what you rank and file members thought it was? That is something that has me wondering and loosing sleep over...After all this crap, I still might go drive a friggin truck for UPS!

Regards,

ex-Navy Rotorhead

 

[Yodafly]

Wow...

I sit here as a Colgan pilot really concerned about the pinnacle pilot groups attitude as well as the pinnacle's Alpa reps attitude. Seams from my side that you think it is all about yourself

on Alpa'a side,
1. it appears like you want us to join to protect the pinnacle pilots bad contract you got them...Sounds like a great reason for me to want a union.

2. The alpa contract you worked out to make your pilots happy has failed, read the posts, can't seam to find a pinnacle pilot that is happy and likes his job...good job again

I'll let you in on a little secret....if you don't like your job...quit
if enough people quit, the company will change things so there pilots stay longer...stop crying to your union rep...cant't you see it's not working

on the Pilots side
1. All I hear is all new flying, all new airplane types all new everything is our god given right and the Colgan Pilots have no rights to anything except what we don't want....oh and we welcome you

2. Join us....Oh but, lets merge our seniorty lists in a way that benefits us, we coulden't have a senior colgan pilot take our captain slots and make pinnacle pilots fly one of those planes with props.....yuck and it would be against our scope....


heres a little insite...

The pilot group at Colgan for the most part is happy with our job. Industry standard pay, 3 day work weeks and home every night. do you have that? Sure we would all like to be paid more but we understand it is a business and we fly 19 and 34 seat planes. Larger planes mean more money, we are expecting our friends and management to make us an industry standard offer to fly 74 seat airplanes. I believe they will do just that. Why you say....RESPECT FOR EACH OTHER hummmm...interesting concept... I have been here a while and believe the Colgan's truly want the best for there employees....companies thrive if everyone is happy and gets a piece. If ther are problems we call the Colgan's directly and talk about it. Colgan Air was bought because the employees make it valuble. It has 3 code shares because the employees and management showed the major airlines that we have a good product that is in high demand. Everyone knows unhappy employees means bad product.


Last point and I will get off my soap box...

The investors bought Colgan because of its relationship with US Air, Cont, and United. We increase Pinnacle airlines value by being able to bid more competitivaly against air wisky, republic and the rest

The Value to Colgan Air is the money for the Q400 expansion they had been bidding on...

Look at the Pinnacle stock if you want to see Colgan Air's value

Can't we all just get along, fly and have some fun while we are here in the regionals....majors will be hiring soon

 

[CrownandCoke]

Back away slowly. Go get a beer.

thank you Rich, I think I will!:beer:

 

[another cfii]

Care to elaborate what side letters you're talking about??

The game's still early, and Uncle Phil's already tossing a hail mary, trying to squeeze it into the end zone. I don't think it'll take much for you Colganites to experience what we deal with everyday; the red-tape, the idiotic management "memos", basically things that make your blood pressure shoots off the roof.... You may not notice it drastically, but soon, you'll receive a "memo" regarding sick leave, and the next day, you'll receive another "memo"... and before you know it, welcome to Phil's world!!

 

[CA1900]

I'll let you in on a little secret....if you don't like your job...quit
if enough people quit, the company will change things so there pilots stay longer...

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha..... :laugh:

<gasp>

.... hahahahahahahahahahaha..... You're killing me....



You can't seriously believe that. You know what companies with poor pay and work rules do when pilots leave too fast? They use training contracts.

 

[Yodafly]

ya your right, but it sounded good at the time

 

[PCL_128]

You forgot to mention pay rates.

Well, that's just a given!

PCL: you're feeding the troll. Back away slowly. Go get a beer.

I'm waiting until you have to buy on the 21st. :beer:

 

[doh]

How is it you got screwed at Pinnacle? You got hired there with just a handful of GIA Beech 1900 hours and minimumally qualified at best. You got to upgrade at the first possible opportunity (when you met the minimum requirement) and got paid the whole time exactly what PCL said they were going to pay you when you hired on. You are building 121 PIC time in a jet.

You should be grateful for the opportunity you have had. But NO, you constantly come on here telling everyone how Pinnacle management has screwed you. Please tell us, exactly how has Pinnacle failed you?

Whiners get very little respect from me!!

Just getting hired at Pinnacle is being screwed!:laugh: Lifer!