Pinnacle purchases 15 Q400

[PCL_128]

In other words, the 9E pilots will have no idea WTF is going on because of some ALPA "hush-hush" lawsuit. I think the reason we will not hear anything is because the union has no idea what to do at this point.

Was this (i.e. 9E buying Colgan) not considered when the scope was integrated into the last contract? I thought that was the sole purpose. I don't see how it takes a month for ALPA legal to decipher something they should have reviewed years ago.

So now 9E pilots will have no information from the union or the company...

Good times!!!

You'll be hearing from us soon. Try to be patient. It wouldn't be smart to make a snap decision. We've talked with legal in the past few days, and we'll be having another meeting this week to decide on our course of action.

 

[ifly34]

Originally posted by Lear70:

"I still have over a dozen outstanding grievances over pay or other contract violation issues. I'm not alone. PCL has more outstanding grievances than ANY other airline IN EXISTENCE in the U.S."

"What you certainly don't know is how terrible QOL has become at PCL compared to when he hired on; same thing happened to me. We both hired on under 14 day off averages, commutable trips, and 12 hour average overnights. It turned into 12 day off averages, all uncommutable (taking you down to 7 or 8 days off), and all reduced rest trips."




I'm sorry, I think I missed it. Please tell me again. What is the advantage of having a union?

 

[Kaman]

The BEST thing your pilot group could do is approach PCL ALPA and start a union drive for Colgan pilots NOW.

If you don't, then the rest of the industry will know where you stand. I'm not going to make airline comparisons, I'm sure you know of many precedents for this, but it would be AMAZINGLY refreshing to see a group of pilots put their foot down against the whipsawing that has taken over this industry.

Lear70,
I don't have anything against a single pilot at PCL, BUT that kind of innuendo isn't going to foster alot of "brotherhood". I've stated this before, and I will state it again. I respect the fact that you guys are in a labor negotiating mode with your management, but at the same time we as 9L pilots have worked hard to EARN the additional flying on our certificate and existing codeshares. Using your logic of any "new" flying as your basis for a breech of contract on your agreement with PCL managment, do you feel PCL pilots should be flying the FOUR additional Saab 340s that will be flying for USAirways on an EAS contract in Parkersburg and Morgantown, WV? I suggest you answer very carefully and thoughtfully. We are listening and waiting.

Regards,

ex-Navy Rotorhead

 

[vectorvictor]

I know what it is like to work at Pinnacle. I worked there. Upgraded in a little over a year. Got my 1000 PIC and moved on. I considered it a good place to work. I was never shorted on my pay, nor did I ever feel a need to file a grievance. It was a regional airline, with regional airline pay and work rules. It was no better or no worse than any of the other regionals out there.

I very much enjoyed working there, except when I had to fly with the likes of Lear70 or PCL128 and listen to their constant barrage of PCL bashing and whining. That could make for some VERY long hours on the flightdeck. At least I could escape it when they would sit in the crew room and constantly whine, complain, and generally be miserable to be around.

I never complained, went to work with a smile on my face, and am grateful for the opportunity that I had there. The upgrade was fast, the training was adequate, the equipment was new, the maintenance was good, and most of the crews were GREAT.

NO REGRETS !!

I agree. I think you would find most people at Colgan fall into the same catergory. It is what it is. Every once in a while you get to do da Colgan.

 

[vtchaz]

Where is that imaginary line?

First, Mesaba didn't buy Pinnacle, operate them as a separate certificate, and use Mesaba money to finance Pinnacle flying. (hint, that's what's going on with PCL and Colgan).

What exactly is "Pinnacle Flying"???? Which is yours and which is ours? By your reasoning, it seems, that everything additional or new we do AFTER the sale to your PARENT company (not your airline) is YOUR flying. Or is it just the pretty stuff like the Q400? I haven't heard anyone get upset about the additional SAABs we just purchased to do the EAS stuff out of West Virginia. Is that YOURS too?

Colgan as a company, everyone including pilots, have worked very hard to gain our codeshares and maintain a good service level on each and every one of them. THAT and that alone is what gains us contracts. We have the highest reliability rating and highest on-time ratings at almost every turn for each of our codeshares. Those are facts. Despute them if you want but they are published nubmers that can be checked. It's all the codeshares really care about.

Continental has been on Colgan specifically to get bigger Turboprops for almost 2 years now. We just haven't had the money to buy them.

Now, you can be upset that those planes are being financed with what you see as YOUR money. However, I'm pretty sure that the courts, the rest of the world, and yours truly see that as money belonging to the investors/owners. They made investments, including Pinnacle Airlines, and expect a return on their investment (which they are getting) and are free to reinvest their money WHEREVER they see fit! Do you think they would have ever put their money into you if the only option for them was to reinvest the money back in? I doubt it. Would you make an investment like that?

So stop comparing us to GoJets, etc. They are not the same situation. Your scope langauge is weak too, which is ALPA's fault, and it's not going to help. ALPA knows it too, otherwise they would have had something to say LONG ago. The reason they keep working on it, is because there isn't a leg to stand on. This is the union you want us to join? Works well for you?

Be upset at the things your management does to YOU. Be upset that YOU are being treated badly and paid at a substandard industry wage. I applaud you for working to change that.

But stop feigning concern for us poor good 'ole boys over at Colgan that just don't know about them thar type things.

Don't vent your frustration over your own impotence and inability to get a foothold in negotiations over YOUR contracts by trying to win a fight over here. WE will take care of ourselves. WE are a strong pilot group that up until now have apparently been satisfied, as a whole, with our management. IF that changes in the future, WE will handle it.

So thanks for the concern, but no thanks.

 

[Mr Wu]

The BEST thing your pilot group could do is approach PCL ALPA and start a union drive for Colgan pilots NOW.

If you don't, then the rest of the industry will know where you stand. I'm not going to make airline comparisons, I'm sure you know of many precedents for this, but it would be AMAZINGLY refreshing to see a group of pilots put their foot down against the whipsawing that has taken over this industry.

Lear70,
I don't have anything against a single pilot at PCL, BUT that kind of innuendo isn't going to foster alot of "brotherhood". I've stated this before, and I will state it again. I respect the fact that you guys are in a labor negotiating mode with your management, but at the same time we as 9L pilots have worked hard to EARN the additional flying on our certificate and existing codeshares. Using your logic of any "new" flying as your basis for a breech of contract on your agreement with PCL managment, do you feel PCL pilots should be flying the FOUR additional Saab 340s that will be flying for USAirways on an EAS contract in Parkersburg and Morgantown, WV? I suggest you answer very carefully and thoughtfully. We are listening and waiting.

Regards,

ex-Navy Rotorhead

Good point. Shiny prop syndrome, maybe? On a different note, does the purshase of Q400 bump the Saabs back to Colgan Express? What does this make the Beeches, the flight school?

 

[XJohXJ]

What exactly is "Pinnacle Flying"???? Which is yours and which is ours? By your reasoning, it seems, that everything additional or new we do AFTER the sale to your PARENT company (not your airline) is YOUR flying. Or is it just the pretty stuff like the Q400? I haven't heard anyone get upset about the additional SAABs we just purchased to do the EAS stuff out of West Virginia. Is that YOURS too?

Colgan as a company, everyone including pilots, have worked very hard to gain our codeshares and maintain a good service level on each and every one of them. THAT and that alone is what gains us contracts. We have the highest reliability rating and highest on-time ratings at almost every turn for each of our codeshares. Those are facts. Despute them if you want but they are published nubmers that can be checked. It's all the codeshares really care about.

Continental has been on Colgan specifically to get bigger Turboprops for almost 2 years now. We just haven't had the money to buy them.

Now, you can be upset that those planes are being financed with what you see as YOUR money. However, I'm pretty sure that the courts, the rest of the world, and yours truly see that as money belonging to the investors/owners. They made investments, including Pinnacle Airlines, and expect a return on their investment (which they are getting) and are free to reinvest their money WHEREVER they see fit! Do you think they would have ever put their money into you if the only option for them was to reinvest the money back in? I doubt it. Would you make an investment like that?

So stop comparing us to GoJets, etc. They are not the same situation. Your scope langauge is weak too, which is ALPA's fault, and it's not going to help. ALPA knows it too, otherwise they would have had something to say LONG ago. The reason they keep working on it, is because there isn't a leg to stand on. This is the union you want us to join? Works well for you?

Be upset at the things your management does to YOU. Be upset that YOU are being treated badly and paid at a substandard industry wage. I applaud you for working to change that.

But stop feigning concern for us poor good 'ole boys over at Colgan that just don't know about them thar type things.

Don't vent your frustration over your own impotence and inability to get a foothold in negotiations over YOUR contracts by trying to win a fight over here. WE will take care of ourselves. WE are a strong pilot group that up until now have apparently been satisfied, as a whole, with our management. IF that changes in the future, WE will handle it.

So thanks for the concern, but no thanks.

Any new flying belongs to PCL because they have a SCOPE CLAUSE in their BINDING CONTRACT, which was AGREED TO by their MANAGEMENT. A deal is a deal, brother.

The other arguments are moral and ethical ones to back up the legal and binding contract which is indisputable (not that their scummy management won't try to dispute it anyway).

You see, the difference is that the Pinacle guys have a signed contract with their management, the Colgan guys do not. Nothing else really matters, unless Colgan decides it is in their best interest to get a contract, too.

 

[suupah]

I am sure that phil trenory has a lawyer or two who knows what the contract says.

 

[TinGoose1]

9E outsourcing flying? Who in their right mind would undercut 9E? Next thing you know the Chinese will be hiring Colgan to replace Mesa. ALPA will never learn. However, I did like how CAL stated they liked 9E's excellent performance, or was that price?

 

[vtchaz]

Read your scope again

Any new flying belongs to PCL because they have a SCOPE CLAUSE in their BINDING CONTRACT, which was AGREED TO by their MANAGEMENT. A deal is a deal, brother.

Reread my post. Your scope is weak. I have yet to see anything showing that your scope protects flying done by another subsidiary of Pinnacle HOLDINGS. Your contract language only protects flying done by Pinnacle AIRLINES. Two different beasts. If someone can produce ONE shred of documentation showing otherwise I welcome reading it.

I know the intention of the scope and it sucks ALPA again screwed up. Another reason why a lot of us don't have ANY faith in them at all.

Our point is Pinnacle pilots don't have a leg to stand on with this one and the blame rests elsewhere. There's enough to go around with ALPA, your former MEC that negotiated the contract, and of course your management.

We still believe our management is in control and until that changes and we see things we don't like, status quo works for most of us.

Good luck.