Pinnacle Buying Colgan

[n32jk]

If Pinnacle's so called scope protections mimic anything like that at Trans States (hint hint, can you say Blowjets) then you Pee-nuckle type can kiss the 76 seaters goodbye.

The NW 900's are a sure bet for Mesaba. NW will want to spit shine them up for a really big IPO in a couple of years. This Colgan stuff probably had no effect on that. But I do agree. The Peanuckle manglement team will try to funnel all new growth toward non union venues if they can get away with it.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

That was cryptic...

Let me help:

fu·ri·ous (fyoor-ee-uhs)​

–adjective full of fury, violent passion, or rage; extremely angry; enraged: He was furious about the accident​

and

dis·re·spect (dĭs'rĭ-spěkt')​

n. Lack of respect, esteem, or courteous regard.​

 

[BirdCatcher]

PCL getting bigger jets

Colgan getting bigger turbo props

What is the big deal leave them seperate

Your assuming that is what is going to happen. Things could change buddy, they are already changing. We here at Colgan can either change accordingly, or stay the way we are. Though it is business 101 those who do not change when the variables around them change fall behind and in the end lose.

 

[vtchaz]

Know the facts

Everyone is entitled to their opinion on this subject and some are still forming them. It is important however that everyone actually understands the business and legal aspects BEFORE they get on their soap box.

The pinnacle or Express 1 contract, as it is written, has no such scope provision protecting current pinnacle pilots in this specific case. As it reads Pinnacle pilots are only guaranteed that flying done by Pinnacle AIRLINES will be done by Pinnacle pilots on their seniority list. There is not one piece of language in there that protects them from the PARENT company, Pinnacle HOLDINGS (it's important to note the difference) from purchasing another company and running it separately as they see fit. This is a mistake and ALPA should have put better langauge in, but they didn't. Not much you can do about that now.

Also in this specific case the rumored expansion is for Q400 Continental flying. This is flying that Colgan has been competing for and bidding on previously. If awarded and the planes are purchased, this is not at the expense of Pinnacle pilots. This is COLGAN pilot flying that we have earned. Make no mistake about that, IF it happens.

No one at Colgan wants anything negative to happen to Pinnacle pilots, or any other pilot group, however don't expect us to choose to join your union or any union just to protect YOU. We will do so if we feel that WE need protection. As of now we have not seen a need. Will that change in the future? Who knows, but that is for us to decide if and when. I personally think now is too early to tell. Our current management is still very much in control of this company. If that starts to change then we MAY have something to talk about.

Go EDUCATE YOURSELF on this industry, it's history, the legal aspects. Don't take anything anyone writes online as fact. I don't expect you to believe me, either. Go find the information for yourself. That's what I did.

And stop kidding yourselves about what life at the regional level is supposed to be like and forget about turning it into anything more than a stepping stone. You'll be a lot happier if you accept that.

As a group, pilots are idiots, and you all know I'm right. The sooner we fix that, the better off we will ALL be at ALL carriers.

Good luck to everyone.

 

[Lear70]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion on this subject and some are still forming them. It is important however that everyone actually understands the business and legal aspects BEFORE they get on their soap box.

The pinnacle or Express 1 contract, as it is written, has no such scope provision protecting current pinnacle pilots in this specific case. As it reads Pinnacle pilots are only guaranteed that flying done by Pinnacle AIRLINES will be done by Pinnacle pilots on their seniority list. There is not one piece of language in there that protects them from the PARENT company, Pinnacle HOLDINGS (it's important to note the difference) from purchasing another company and running it separately as they see fit. This is a mistake and ALPA should have put better langauge in, but they didn't. Not much you can do about that now.

Also in this specific case the rumored expansion is for Q400 Continental flying. This is flying that Colgan has been competing for and bidding on previously. If awarded and the planes are purchased, this is not at the expense of Pinnacle pilots. This is COLGAN pilot flying that we have earned. Make no mistake about that, IF it happens.

No one at Colgan wants anything negative to happen to Pinnacle pilots, or any other pilot group, however don't expect us to choose to join your union or any union just to protect YOU. We will do so if we feel that WE need protection. As of now we have not seen a need. Will that change in the future? Who knows, but that is for us to decide if and when. I personally think now is too early to tell. Our current management is still very much in control of this company. If that starts to change then we MAY have something to talk about.

Go EDUCATE YOURSELF on this industry, it's history, the legal aspects. Don't take anything anyone writes online as fact. I don't expect you to believe me, either. Go find the information for yourself. That's what I did.

And stop kidding yourselves about what life at the regional level is supposed to be like and forget about turning it into anything more than a stepping stone. You'll be a lot happier if you accept that.

That was pretty much useless drivel...

First, the main problem with the ENTIRE industry is the kind of thinking you have in the last paragraph above. YOU are part of the problem.

Second, your management is NOT in control. That's the whole point of a sale. Your MIDDLE management is still running the line operation, but your senior management are puppets to Nonconnah.

Get used to it.

Lastly, the Scope isn't a loose as you'd like to think. This WILL get ugly, you won't like it (and neither will the PCL pilots), and representation WILL be needed.

Whether you get ALPA or not is up to you, I could care less.

But to fail to immediately begin organization efforts is a mistake.

You are now officially forewarned and are therefore forearmed, what you do with it is YOUR business.

 

[Smarta$$]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion on this subject and some are still forming them. It is important however that everyone actually understands the business and legal aspects BEFORE they get on their soap box.

The pinnacle or Express 1 contract, as it is written, has no such scope provision protecting current pinnacle pilots in this specific case. As it reads Pinnacle pilots are only guaranteed that flying done by Pinnacle AIRLINES will be done by Pinnacle pilots on their seniority list. There is not one piece of language in there that protects them from the PARENT company, Pinnacle HOLDINGS (it's important to note the difference) from purchasing another company and running it separately as they see fit. This is a mistake and ALPA should have put better langauge in, but they didn't. Not much you can do about that now.

Also in this specific case the rumored expansion is for Q400 Continental flying. This is flying that Colgan has been competing for and bidding on previously. If awarded and the planes are purchased, this is not at the expense of Pinnacle pilots. This is COLGAN pilot flying that we have earned. Make no mistake about that, IF it happens.

No one at Colgan wants anything negative to happen to Pinnacle pilots, or any other pilot group, however don't expect us to choose to join your union or any union just to protect YOU. We will do so if we feel that WE need protection. As of now we have not seen a need. Will that change in the future? Who knows, but that is for us to decide if and when. I personally think now is too early to tell. Our current management is still very much in control of this company. If that starts to change then we MAY have something to talk about.

Go EDUCATE YOURSELF on this industry, it's history, the legal aspects. Don't take anything anyone writes online as fact. I don't expect you to believe me, either. Go find the information for yourself. That's what I did.

And stop kidding yourselves about what life at the regional level is supposed to be like and forget about turning it into anything more than a stepping stone. You'll be a lot happier if you accept that.

As a group, pilots are idiots, and you all know I'm right. The sooner we fix that, the better off we will ALL be at ALL carriers.

Good luck to everyone.

First, your a tool.

Second, your analisis of our scope is incorrect. You are missing the side letter agreed to later that binds that Holding company as a successor to the Pinnacle pilots. Maybe you should understand our scope before you get on your soapbox tool.

 

[vtchaz]

Where is it?

First, your a tool.

Second, your analisis of our scope is incorrect. You are missing the side letter agreed to later that binds that Holding company as a successor to the Pinnacle pilots. Maybe you should understand our scope before you get on your soapbox tool.

I'd be interested in reading that. Where can I find it?

Notice how I responded without resorting to playground antics? That's how professional pilots act.

 

[GEORGE DUBYA]

When are the pinnacle pilots going to leave us alone? My head hurts I have had enough this week. Have your people talk to our people next week and we will decide about this union thing

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Second, your management is NOT in control. That's the whole point of a sale. Your MIDDLE management is still running the line operation, but your senior management are puppets to Nonconnah.

And NonConnah are puppets to Eagan, MN.....

 

[vtchaz]

Second, your management is NOT in control. That's the whole point of a sale. Your MIDDLE management is still running the line operation, but your senior management are puppets to Nonconnah.

You don't know the Colgan's very well or how this company works. There is no "middle management". Everyone who is any kind of manager at this company at EVERY level is either a Colgan by birth, marriage, because they live in the same neighborhood, etc. The Colgan's are still very much in control. As much control as they had before? No, of course not. But they are hardly puppets.

 

[funnyman12]

until the moral improves...the beatings will continue

 

[SELCAL checks]

The Colgan's are still very much in control. As much control as they had before? No, of course not. But they are hardly puppets.

We'll ask for your answer again in 6 months.

 

[Lear70]

We'll ask for your answer again in 6 months.

BINGO!

Rez is also correct... Eagan controls Nonconnah, Nonconnah controls whatever red-headed step-children are left running the operations area at Colgan.

But again, whatever helps you guys sleep better at night.

 

[PCL_128]

Second, your analisis of our scope is incorrect. You are missing the side letter agreed to later that binds that Holding company as a successor to the Pinnacle pilots. Maybe you should understand our scope before you get on your soapbox tool.

I'm not going to get in depth on Scope discussions right now until the attorneys get back to us next week with a full briefing, but I do want to correct something. The side letter you are referring to is only a name change LOA. Basically, the only thing it did was change any reference in the agreement of "Express One" to "Pinnacle." The important thing to note about the LOA is this section:

The parties are entering into this amendment solely to reflect the corporate
name change of the Company and do not intend to make any substantive
change to any aspect of the parties’ rights and obligations established by the
collective bargaining agreement by virtue of this amendment.​

 

[30West]

To all my CJ homies. be afraid. Be very afraid.

As much as you'd like to believe that things will still be the same, it's time to be realistic. The "good old days" are now over.
You are now part of a larger company with a very different philosophy regarding operation and labor relations.
Listen to what the Pinnacle guys are saying. Anyone that thinks things are just going to stay the same for any length of time you've got your heads in the sand.
One only has to look at recent history, especially in the regionals, to see exactly what is about to happen.
Having worked at CJ for 6 years, and still part time, I never felt for a minute that the pilot group there would in any way be served well by a pilots union.
I have a couple friends at 9E and I can say they know of what they speak.

See y'all in STL!