My sixth year view of AirTran

[VABB]

Why do you say that? Airtran, Frontier, Southwest and Spirit were around in the 90's when the legacies were steamrolling, so they are making money again, thats great!

With the exception of Southwest, the other airlines that you mention were not around very long. If you look at the mid-90's, each of those airlines were very young and each was flying a fleet of older airplanes. AirTran and Spirit were flying older DC-9's, and Frontier had several 737-200's. Those fleets had to be updated, and that meant taking on a lot of debt to be able to do that.

The LCC's of the nineties operated smaller, older fleets over a much smaller route network. Fast-forward 10 years, and these same companies have a lot of debt because of expansion and employees remaining longer. Because of employee longevity they are demanding more pay and benefits. The fleets are more fuel efficient, but the capital required to acquire those fleets comes borrowing a lot of money.

 

[VABB]

Lear70 what a refreshing dose of reality. Making $100K per year doing something you like puts you in the upper 5% of income in the US. There are many many people out there who would love to be in that position. You fly airplanes because you like to. BTW how is a marginally profitable company supposed to make big changes?

Hey YIP,

Not every flying position pays $100K/yr. Somehow you seem to believe that's the case with every pilot out there.

At $100K/yr, that puts you approximately in the 40% tax bracket. Let's be conservative and say that 37% of that income is taxed between federal and state. The net income would be $63K/yr. Still in the upper 5%, but not exactly a pot of gold either.

Good money? It would probably be hard to argue that it isn't. But is a job with a 24-hour on-call with 20-minute response times worth it? Nope. Most people would opt to do something a little better with less pay.

 

[Lear70]

You contradict yourself. Sounds like you shouldn't have quit your job flying the mail.

Really? Sounds like you need a lesson in deductive reasoning.

The contract that is sent to the pilots for ratification is a DIRECT result of what the NC is able to get out of the company.

That's correct, and the NC and BOD have been directed by the Wilson Polling numbers not to bring a concessionary contract. Therefore, until the NC is able to get a decent contract out of the company, they are compelled not to bring it to vote.

Make sense yet, or would you like a little more education regarding the RLA and collective bargaining?

Incidentally, hauling the mail is something I wouldn't have given up except to go to the majors. If you knew anything about it, you'd know that every carrier running USPS Priority Mail was given a pink slip after FedEx was given the contract several years before it was due to be bid again.

But then again, given your knowledge of the industry, I'm not surprised you don't know that.

Reality?

The sad reality is that we've systematically had our contract dismantled over the last 5 years. Management has been using our contract as toilet paper. And in your opinion, because I make over 100K, this is acceptable?

Personally I don't like being taken advantage of regardless of how much I make. Please do us a favor and never apply to AirTran, we have enough limp wristed, company sympathizers already.

That, also, is 100% true.

It doesn't mean, however, that we're going to have a "concessionary contract rammed down our throat", it just means the company is playing hardball. Coming out of the Redtail system I'm pretty used to these kinds of games. uke:

Many of those, in and of themselves, are illegal work actions. Especially not calling for a gate, cleaning, catering, etc. Those ARE part of your job.

Show me where it says that I must do any of that in the FOM.

It's not in the FOM, it's simply something that is part of this job and the professional in me refuses to do anything less. I'll do my job 100%, but I'll also go 100% by the book, as the FAA expects me to do, and hope and expect the Captains I'm flying with to do the same.

Alaska had their contract shoved down their throats because they chose to go to binding arbitration, it was thier choice to do that.. BTW.. I believe they also got those $204 per hr pay raises because of binding aribitration... If we don't choose to go to binding arbitration, then guess what, the company can't shove chit down our throats that we don't vote on.

Exactly.

Besides, AAI could lose several million for 4Q and still make more than they did last year. AAI isn't gonna go anywhere in the near future.. Will the AirTran name be around forever? Maybe not, but, I would't expect the same fate as Easter, and Braniff.

Pretty much agree with this, too.

We will get a contract someday. But probably not anytime soon, especially with what is going on at DAL and USAir.. AAI management is just stalling, and really, what do you expect them to do, they are in the business to keep the airline making money. And thats what they are doing.

They actually have a FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY to the stockholders to do EXACTLY what they're doing... minimizing expenses for as long as they can. Every month they don't sign a contract giving us even basic COLA increases is another month at the old rates. Makes them a LOT of money, what incentive do they have to give us a new contract that costs them more?

 

[timmay]

Your family is in the minority.

Corporate Attorneys are making pretty good change, but it takes an inside contact to get one of these jobs (just like a major). VERY few do it on merit alone and if they do, they're one of the really talented attorneys who also makes a killing in the private sector doing high-power criminal defense.

The majority of attorneys doing bankruptcy practice, family law practice (divorce, wills, POA's), and state prosecutors make right around $100,000 a year and work from 7 in the morning until 6 or so at night.

Wow you should do a little research, bankruptcy and divorce lawyers make a killing.

Your close with the prosecutors in Florida they start around 35,000. But Its equivalent to getting hired at a regional with no experience,you stay a few years and get some expierence then move on to something better.

 

[Longhorn]

Wow....lear, you are on a roll today!!

As for where the money is....the divorce lawyers make it all.

 

[Lear70]

Wow....lear, you are on a roll today!!

As for where the money is....the divorce lawyers make it all.

Yeah, have to say we spent a lot of money on divorce attorneys after my wife and I got married embroiled in crap with her ex...

Not to mention what happened with you and yours... yuck.

I'm also trying to sleep off a full-blown flu bug... At least I'll (hopefully) be ok for Thanksgiving.

Wow you should do a little research, bankruptcy and divorce lawyers make a killing.

There's about half a dozen GOOD bankruptcy attorneys here in town that make a LOT of money, the rest of them do so-so (this directly from a cousin who's a bankruptcy attorney here).

Same with the divorce lawyers, there's maybe a dozen good names, everyone else is kinda "ehhh" and they bust their butts trying to make six figures a year. This I know from having shopped over 30 attorneys before settling on a good one for my wife's problems with her ex and the custody crap that goes along with having a psycho idiot still around.

 

[timmay]

Wow....lear, you are on a roll today!!

As for where the money is....the divorce lawyers make it all.

Any man thats been through a divorce can relate.

 

[frog_flyer]

If you make less than 100k as a lawyer, you suck at life. (less the first few years out of law school)

Same goes for doctors and dentists. Maybe 250k for the former in most instances.

 

[frog_flyer]

Wow....lear, you are on a roll today!!

As for where the money is....the divorce lawyers make it all.

'tis true. Keep it comin', I want a new car.





But if you hire a $300/hr attorney, you have some serious assets to protect and you'll most likely save money in the end.

 

[Lear70]

If you make less than 100k as a lawyer, you suck at life. (less the first few years out of law school)

Same goes for doctors and dentists. Maybe 250k for the former in most instances.

If you say so... The reality my family sees is drastically different than what you're painting.

Once you pay out malpractice insurance, office staff, expenses, what you clear is less than half of that $250k you're claiming unless you're in the top 2%.

The majority of attorneys and doctors make a great living, but nothing like the numbers you're throwing out there.