My sixth year view of AirTran

[Hagar17]

I'm considering going.

brain surgery, I presume?

 

[whymeworry?]

The medical field is in worse shape than aviation. Just try going through all that hell for the same paycheck you get after six years at AirTran.

That's what the docs want you to believe. Amoungst themselves, they bitch more than pilots do. I'm always reading articles about how hard they work and how the profession is not longer worth it to them anymore. Then, every time I try to make an appointment on a Thursday or Friday... they're off for the weekend! In fact, the whole frigging office takes off friday these days. No wonder they're working hard. They want to make enough moeny to cover their huge nut yet they don't want to put in a normal work week.

I use to feel sorry for these guys workng their asses off but the more I go through life the more I realize they're hardly ever at the office.

 

[scrub]

AirTran is going down. 5 years from now, nobody will know they ever existed.

Why do you say that? Airtran, Frontier, Southwest and Spirit were around in the 90's when the legacies were steamrolling, so they are making money again, thats great! Airlines will come and go so will other business', thats what makes this a great country, CAPITALISM, free market etc. Anyone who sits drooling over their keyboard wishing for the demise of an airline on this forum probably constantly berates their spouse and kids and in general is difficult to be around, personally and professionaly.

 

[AA717driver]

brain surgery, I presume?

"Physician, heal thyself!"

Whymeworry--The doctor's offices are always full because the practice managers keep stuffing the schedule. They aren't in the office because they are outbased to another facility. A urologist friend has to travel to two separate offices on opposite sides of the city to see patients. AND, he has to hit the hospital downtown to do surgeries and rounds.

The bottom line is that two formerly great professions have been watered down by lack of organization (union-type, not clutter-type) and member cohesiveness.

Maybe it would change if Docs refused to treat lawyers and MBA's and we refused to fly them... TC

 

[Lowpayisgreat]

Every American is taking a hit

We all bitch about how the pilot prof now sucks. Well look back 15 years ago and compare the medical and law prof to today. They all pay more for school, alot more, will make less in a lifetime and pay way more for mal-pratice. yes they still make good money, but they also come out with 200000 plus in debt. Google salaries, and look up GP's and you will see the US average in about 100000 and a dentist (no speciality for either) makes about mid 90000's. I don't know about you, but putting my hands in someones mouth 8 hours a day is not worth 90K or if you specialize 150000. The fact is the money is gone in flying. Last week there was a story about the number of law graduates. CNN stated that last year there were more grads than ever before, and in the last 10 years the universities produced more lawyers then in the previous 20 years. My buds who went to state law schools are now just making in the 80's (10yrs exp). The stories you hear about the big money comes from the top 10 to 15 law schools. One buddie (ex-army intelligence officer) went to Stanford (ranked #1) and has 150000 in debt and now works for the gov at 700000 a year. His loan payment every month is $1000 for 20 yrs. He has been offered jobs that make 180000 a year but they require him to work about 70 hours. The only way our prof. is going to make a come back is to require that all pilots have degrees, which all other prof do, and the next company that want concessions gets kicked in the ass. When a labor group finally strikes and puts someone under then they will pay us what we have earned, till then we will continue to be asked to take cuts. If you don't like it then go to Fedex or UPS which is a whole different business model. Its time to just say no to 5th year pay being 65000, you can make that selling used cars for gods sake or spend 10000 dollars and get an MBA and you can make that right out of school. Just say no and if the company goes under then move on, its not worth having anyway.

 

[GogglesPisano]

The only profession that has done well over the last few years has been in the executive suite. The MBA's are leading the pack in our new winer-take-all, widening income gap, neo-feudal society.

Welcome to the jungle, baby. It gets worse here every day.

 

[Lowpayisgreat]

Some more

F9 union has bought off on a consession contract. Capt will take a 2 yr pay freeze while first year pay will be cut from 53hr to 32hr. Why, because the contract is based on the average of 6 airlines, (AAI, Alaska, Jet Blue, Midwest, AWA and ???) and guess what, their salaries are all going down. The average 24 yr old with no exp and fresh out of a state school with an MBA makes 55 a year in Denver. 10 yrs later 100000 if they move up and change jobs. Hell it take 2 to 4 year to make that in our prof after 5 years of exp to get to a LCC. Remember its paint on a jet. So if a better offer comes along move on. The same jet, different paint and better salary. Vote with your feet, don't buy the loyality crap and ride it in. Use your sick time when you want and spend time with your family.

 

[Lowrider717]

Well if you were here at the Tranny six years ago, then you'll remember that it was the same story...same negotiation playbook, same morale problem. Come on guys, it was only 6 years ago. Then we got a pretty decent contract upgrade. Now we just have to fix a few issues in that pretty decent contract and everyone will be drinking the kool aid again. Don't get discouraged just cause the company aint playin ball right now. Stick together, fly safe and they'll figure it out. Don't let em push your buttons!

 

[timmay]

They all pay more for school, alot more, will make less in a lifetime and pay way more for mal-pratice. yes they still make good money, but they also come out with 200000 plus in debt. Google salaries, and look up GP's and you will see the US average in about 100000 and a dentist (no speciality for either) makes about mid 90000's. I don't know about you, but putting my hands in someones mouth 8 hours a day is not worth 90K or if you specialize 150000. The fact is the money is gone in flying. Last week there was a story about the number of law graduates. CNN stated that last year there were more grads than ever before, and in the last 10 years the universities produced more lawyers then in the previous 20 years. My buds who went to state law schools are now just making in the 80's (10yrs exp). The stories you hear about the big money comes from the top 10 to 15 law schools. One buddie (ex-army intelligence officer) went to Stanford (ranked #1) and has 150000 in debt and now works for the gov at 700000 a year. His loan payment every month is $1000 for 20 yrs. He has been offered jobs that make 180000 a year but they require him to work about 70 hours. The only way our prof. is going to make a come back is to require that all pilots have degrees, which all other prof do, and the next company that want concessions gets kicked in the ass. When a labor group finally strikes and puts someone under then they will pay us what we have earned, till then we will continue to be asked to take cuts. If you don't like it then go to Fedex or UPS which is a whole different business model. Its time to just say no to 5th year pay being 65000, you can make that selling used cars for gods sake or spend 10000 dollars and get an MBA and you can make that right out of school. Just say no and if the company goes under then move on, its not worth having anyway.

I come from a family of lawyers and yes there are some that make under 100k but most make significantly more. I have seen my brother make more in one month than I made the whole year. He has been a lawyer for about 7 years and is on pace to bring in well over 500k and he still has time to play golf twice a week.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

The only profession that has done well over the last few years has been in the executive suite. The MBA's are leading the pack in our new winer-take-all, widening income gap, neo-feudal society.

Welcome to the jungle, baby. It gets worse here every day.

Correct, CEO's make on average 500 times their average employee's salary; It's good to be the king. Also, doctors face bigger problems than we do, with most Americans medical insurance on the chopping block, they are going to face huge revenue problems. Those corporate CEO's that own the pharmaceutical and insurance companies are going to do extremely well, the doctors, not so much.