Uncle Jerry's Visit to The ASA Crew Rm

[FightingIrish]

I respect people that stand up and let their opinion be known.

I respect people that disagree with the current course the MEC is on, even though they are in the minority.

I have ZERO respect for cowards on FI who say one thing behind an anonymous keyboard, but never voice a word in a crew lounge or meeting where it counts.

Flight Info rants have ZERO credibility. Come to an LEC and speak yur mind, your opinion counts and SHOULD be heard.

How do we know that all these posters are even ASA pilots and not mgt or F&H $hit disturbers?

I never hear the likes of ohplease or you in the crew lounge. I have flown with exactly ONE pilot who first hand spoke the LJ/JB mantra. ONE.

So until all you dissenters come forward and make your opinions and feeling known to the MEC in a forum where you can be indentified and there for given some credibility, it is just noise.

Clear enough?

Stand up for what you belive and you will be counted, and respected. Snipe on Flight Info, and you will be ridiculed.

It's really quite simple.

Some of us don't want to subject ourselves to the absolute disgraceful and meanspirited attacks from the "hold the line or shut em down" crowd. Some of us actually enjoy being ALPA volunteers, and don't want to jeopardize that by speaking out publicly. Some are just tired of the whole thing and don't feel like they are being heard anyway.

You need to take some of your own advice Pogue. You said:

"Stand up for what you believe and you will be counted, and respected. Snipe on Flight Info, and you will be ridiculed"

I see the LJ coalition standing up for what they believe, while you and others are the ones "sniping on Flight Info" - maybe it is your side that is being ridiculed?

The silent majority is going to speak thru the ballot.

 

[FightingIrish]

Fortunately not NEARLY enough to vote those 4 IDIOTS in....Thank Goodness!

The nomination vote went to these 4 by a 7 to 1 margin. Sounds pretty strong to me.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

The nomination vote went to these 4 by a 7 to 1 margin. Sounds pretty strong to me.

How could you possibly know that, unless you were one of the three counting the ballots? I call BS on that one.

 

[CFIT]

1. I don't drink!

Man, you shouldn't admit that. Because after your endless and pointless tirades and childlike temper tantrums, you should maybe have an excuse for acting like a total moron.

Maybe you're a drug user, that might explain some of it?

Maybe your parents were actually cousins? (you know the old saying "nothing like luvin when you're getting it from your cuzin")

Maybe you forgot to put your helmet on when you played football?

Maybe your car has a muffler leak?

Maybe it's just that you can't see the industry for what it is today and get out of the past? But if you said you were a cronic boozer that might explain some of your retarded comments.

You were so close to having an excuse, you've blown it again.....

 

[FightingIrish]

How could you possibly know that, unless you were one of the three counting the ballots? I call BS on that one.

Fine call BS. A little birdie told me. When are the results going to be released?

 

[ohplease!]

Fine call BS. A little birdie told me. When are the results going to be released?

they'll never release those figures. they'll tell you they don't have those figures. truth is, that would be too much info. for you minions to have.

 

[FightingIrish]

they'll never release those figures. they'll tell you they don't have those figures. truth is, that would be too much info. for you minions to have.

If they don't release the figures, then they are trying to hide it because it shows that the pilot group isn't happy. If they don't release it, every pilot should call their reps. and demand that they release it.

 

[sweptback]

If they don't release the figures, then they are trying to hide it because it shows that the pilot group isn't happy. If they don't release it, every pilot should call their reps. and demand that they release it.

Why do you care? The vote is what matters, not the nominations.

 

[FightingIrish]

Why do you care? The vote is what matters, not the nominations.

Why would it matter if the actual numbers were published? What harm could there be in publishing the number of nomination votes? Quit hiding information from the membership. 7 to 1 shows that the membership has doubts about our current strategy. This brings into doubt the information we are being fed about Wilson polling.

 

[JustaNumber]

Hopefully we get a contract that allows us to move forward in this deal with a good amount of compromise between both management and our pilot group. ...Danny and Nick are great guys, but don't necessarily represent the path or the change that I'M looking for.

Change for change's sake is poor logic.

"...a good amount of compromise between both management and our pilot group"

......Okay, so every time the negotiating committee moves by 10%, management moves by 0.25%. And you blame our current MEC for the lack of progress? Should we just put in new members who will agree to their 0.25% raise just so we can sign a deal? What's the point? I prefer to allow the current MEC to continue to negotiate for what the pilots continue to indicate that they want in poll after poll.

 

[ohplease!]

I don't really care about the numbers. It just goes right along with the "refusal" (call it whatever you want to but, saying "we don't have those numbers" isn't an honest anwer) to tell the % change by both sides since the negotiations began.

All that matters is that I have a choice to vote for someone outside the current clique. And make no mistake about it, there IS a clique. Don't think so???? try asking a question during an LEC meeting that doesn't "toe the party line" and see how many people try to "beat you down".

 

[FightingIrish]

Change for change's sake is poor logic.

"...a good amount of compromise between both management and our pilot group"

......Okay, so every time the negotiating committee moves by 10%, management moves by 0.25%. And you blame our current MEC for the lack of progress? Should we just put in new members who will agree to their 0.25% raise just so we can sign a deal? What's the point? I prefer to allow the current MEC to continue to negotiate for what the pilots continue to indicate that they want in poll after poll.

1. On pay, our side hasn't moved 10%. In fact, I believe management has moved more on payrates than ALPA has.

2. How do we know the polling data is correct? Do you really think the majority of pilots are still holding out for a retirement plan and to keep the instructor section the way it it? I don't think so.

3. I want a big raise also, but I want to stop the transfer of assets even more. If we cant stop the transfer of assets without giving up the big raise I want, then protect the jobs before you fight for the big raise.

 

[ohplease!]

Change for change's sake is poor logic.

"...a good amount of compromise between both management and our pilot group"

......Okay, so every time the negotiating committee moves by 10%, management moves by 0.25%. And you blame our current MEC for the lack of progress? Should we just put in new members who will agree to their 0.25% raise just so we can sign a deal? What's the point? I prefer to allow the current MEC to continue to negotiate for what the pilots continue to indicate that they want in poll after poll.

hmmm. lets see....I recall mgmt. asking for something like 8% reduction for 700 ca. and a single rate for all fo's (could have been more but, I don't really remember). I also recall ALPA asking for something like 12 or 13 % rate increases (also could have been more...I'm trying to be a little conservative).

Te last offer I saw from BOTH side was ALPA demanding 10 % and and mgmt. coming back with fo split rate (not sinlge rate for all planes) and after 2 years a .25 % ca. on teh 70.....STILL NOT ACCEPTABLE (so don't even try that silliness) BBBBUUUUTTTTT, call me silly here but, I don't see 10% movement from ALPA and I see FAR more than .25% from mgmt. But hey! "We don't know those numbers" so I guess we'll never know for sure. Will we? Nah, didn't think so.

 

[SLUF4]

I was in the lounge during the visit. After the formalities another FO asked why skywest was hiring so many and we were downgrading captains. Jerry responded that we were "not as cost effective" and skywest provided a better product. Later that night I started thinking, if that's the case then why did Jerry buy us? Surely that would have been researched before making a $500 million purchase. Why are we making such a profit if we aren't "cost effective"? My buddies at Skywest say they're hiring 2 or 3 classes of 70 a month. Jerry said this was not true. If what they say is true (that the rate of hiring will continue until June) that be roughly 1300 pilots. Are these our ASA replacement pilots?

 

[ohplease!]

Change for change's sake is poor logic.

Maybe. But, change for lack of progress is legit in my book.

 

[FightingIrish]

hmmm. lets see....I recall mgmt. asking for something like 8% reduction for 700 ca. and a single rate for all fo's (could have been more but, I don't really remember). I also recall ALPA asking for something like 12 or 13 % rate increases (also could have been more...I'm trying to be a little conservative).

Te last offer I saw from BOTH side was ALPA demanding 10 % and and mgmt. coming back with fo split rate (not sinlge rate for all planes) and after 2 years a .25 % ca. on teh 70.....STILL NOT ACCEPTABLE (so don't even try that silliness) BBBBUUUUTTTTT, call me silly here but, I don't see 10% movement from ALPA and I see FAR more than .25% from mgmt. But hey! "We don't know those numbers" so I guess we'll never know for sure. Will we? Nah, didn't think so.

Based on what I have seen from both sides, you are correct. Management has moved more on a percentage basis on payrates. In fact, as far as I can see we have moved very little on payrates and we are still asking for a retirement plan which everyone admits isn't going to happen.

 

[ohplease!]

I was in the lounge during the visit. After the formalities another FO asked why skywest was hiring so many and we were downgrading captains. Jerry responded that we were "not as cost effective" and skywest provided a better product. Later that night I started thinking, if that's the case then why did Jerry buy us? Surely that would have been researched before making a $500 million purchase. Why are we making such a profit if we aren't "cost effective"? My buddies at Skywest say they're hiring 2 or 3 classes of 70 a month. Jerry said this was not true. If what they say is true (that the rate of hiring will continue until June) that be roughly 1300 pilots. Are these our ASA replacement pilots?

hmm. good question....maybe you should ask ASA ALPA. Keep in mind though that "the 900's were not coming to ASA anyway" and "the SLC 700's won't be transfered to SkyW"...Replaced by JUNE? Doubt it. But, alpa will either get reasonable or we'll be a shell of our former self quicker than you thought possible....he!!, that much even I can guarantee.

 

[SLUF4]

I think that Jerry would have a better answer than ALPA on that, but maybe I'll ask them. War Eagle, buddy.

 

[ohplease!]

SkyW will "provide a better product" as long as they stay OUT of the ATL system and off the east coast (I'd like to see their OT and COMP #'s for UAL on the east coast and ORD...not sure they're much better than our DL #'s).

The airspace we share up and down the east coast and the inherant problems with ATL will ALWAYS keep the #'s low (why do you think Southwest and Jetblue won't have ANYTHING to do with ATL?). JA is not a dumb man. He knows this as well as anyone. If ASA can settle a contract that "keeps our costs reasonable", he'll turn ATL back over to ASA (including the 900's) and keep SkyW #'s high.

 

[ohplease!]

I think that Jerry would have a better answer than ALPA on that, but maybe I'll ask them. War Eagle, buddy.

yeah WAR EAGLE! they weren't very impressive today but, I enjoyed sitting in the sun all afternoon. I just hope next week is an early afternoon game ( not set yet because of TV). Otherwise its gonna be a bit chilly. No matter though, my son and I get to be on the field next week. Wouldn't miss it for the world!