Uncle Jerry's Visit to The ASA Crew Rm

[~~~^~~~]

CFIT:

I can only speak for me, but:

(1) Management's table offer is basically current book (ignoring rediculous 1/4 of 1% pay rate increases), plus the improved section 13. [As a SLOA - Performance Plus is offered in exchange for Pref. Bidding (which I do not want, but if we secure 4% in Perf. Plus and some growth, I consider it a wash) You can still bid your off days around your vacation and more pilots would be off reserve under a Pref. Bid. IMHO the CNC taking the right course that we will consider Pref. Bid, but need to do it thoughtfully and not rush into anything]
(2) Management has said they need the current offer to provide them with "security" that going forward ASA will have a competitive cost structure which allows them to maintain flying, grow and bid.
(3) Scope offers employees the same security management says that they want to secure with the current pay structure.

As I understand it, the logic behind the Fabulous 4's run is very similar to what I'm thinking. That the contract is 80% done (thanks to the heavy lifting by ALPA and our CNC) and that scope should be obtained by providing management the security they want, while providing employees with the security they want. If we secure growth, a fleet guarantee, then that growth will more than make up for the nearly nothing in pay rates through the stope pipe effect (FO's upgrade and get 40% raises, Captains go to the 700/900 and get 15%, reserves hold lines, and so on....)

Ultimately, our Representatives will do their best to represent the will of the pilot group, as indicated by Wilson Polling and the pilots who voice their opinions. It is my hope that ALPA National will support that process without using our pilot group to set a precedent. Whether it be Jackson and Lee, or Utley and Tomlinson, our representatives should represent the pilots. I think the 90 day deadline is not a good idea, in that the resposibilities of a status Rep go far beyond this contract into every other part of an airline pilot's interaction with ALPA and the Company. Just as a deadline for withdrawal for IRAQ is not a good strategy, a deadline for a vote of confidence on your Status Rep is rash.

One tough nut to crack is the training department. We have some of the best IP's around and I think we should keep our IP's and Standards guys in place. Current book is higher than industry average, but we do get what we pay for. Perhaps there is some room to outsource more while keeping our guys in place at the top of the IP food chain. After all, the current stagnation and fleet re-allocation is very inefficient. SkyWest admitted in the conference call that the 900 & 700 re-allocation was increasing SkyWest's costs. Growth would do a lot to cure the cost problem. Also, the current IP rates were a reaction of a desperate ASA management to keep IP's lat time hiring got hot. All indications are that hiring will get hot again, maybe in 2007, and if that is the case, ASA might once again need to retain IP's by paying them a good wage for their work.

So that is "my" position. Even better, we should use our scope (and SkyWest's lack of scope) to secure flying, at least the airplanes that were ASA's, including firm orders, when we were bought. More than retro pay, I want the airplanes, upgrades and quality of life back. If SkyWest wants to play too, then they need to join the union.

My fear is that ALPA might just fight their way into a better contract, but not secure scope, resulting in a ever shinking airline with fewer Capt. slots and lower QOL. We can not count on our friends at SkyWest to build on the foundation we make. In fact, many seem happy to take what they can from us while blaming us for not doing more to prevent their taking.

 

[Tomct]

Yes I am . I am simply pointing out that in my opinion there are much better ways to get things done than picketing. does it really accomplish anything? do you think anyone even remembers the events of the day? Has skywest suffered at all as a result of the picketing? Does anyone even remember the full page ad taken out in the paper? I am just saying ALPA should not waste their times on such activities. That is all. There is no need to take a paycut when your making money but there is also no need to try and break the bank either. Meet in the middle and I guarantee you all your dreams will come true.

Apparently you are NOT paying attention. Mgmnt wants us to take a 1% pay raise for 8 years of work! Yeah...did you hear that timmy? Screw THAT!!! The company won't even come back to the table and negotiate in good faith either. So, is this ALPA's fault? NO! It is our SH!TTY company and our worthless mgers. They are dragging their feet and hoping that they can bang as much cash out of us before they have to give in! My opinion, forget retirement! Increase 401 and give a good bump on pay, all of skywst incentives...open time time and a half and of course....100% retro pay! Without that, they can PISS OFF!! I don't care if they give all of our airplanes to skywst!

 

[socony_air]

Fins - not sure what you read, but I didn't confuse anything. I labeled Brian Wilson a "pilot/union basher" & said that L. Jackson keeps company with J. Breiling (RJDC litigant/supporter/whatever). Unless you are B. Wilson, I'm not here to drag out the whole RJDC laundry debate.

I know what the RJDC is. I don't need it spun for me yet again. I've heard it a million times before & I simply disagree with it as a being the best means for acheiving change within the National union. If you look at the recent national election & the ouster of D. Worth. I'd say the majority is speaking for reform & that democracy within the union is working at its own pace. I don't think suing for huge $$$, that will take money from coffers we have all worked hard to fill in the hopes of advancing our profession & placing said $$$ into the hands of J. Breiling or some other named litigant will do anything to change the tenor at ALPA national for the better.

I'm of the opinion that the RJDC's goal of allowing unlimited seats at carriers like ASA takes away jobs from the companies that the Majority of us want. I contend if you are young, educated & have ambitions of moving on to a Major one day, the RJDC is probably not the cause for you.

My comments were to inform a junior pilot (and any others that will listen) "Buyer Beware" when voting for L. Jackson to initiate change at ASA. Many may intend to vote for change - but in this case it would be a misguided vote for many reasons. Most of those reasons have little to nothing to do with the RJDC.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Socony - You don't know what the RJDC is. The RJDC's goals have nothing to do with the "unlimited seats at carriers like ASA." In fact, the RJDC's founders fought for "all Delta flying performed by Delta pilots" leading up to the 2000 BOD.

Much damage has been caused to our profession while ALPA awaits reform at its own pace.

Regardless of whether you fly at Gulfstream, or are a 777 Captain, you benefit from a strong national union which represents all pilots for the purposes of bargaining collectively. An individual pilot's education, or career goals, should not determine whether ALPA benefits them, or not.

 

[VeeOne]

~~~^~~~,

Sounds like you've got a clear picture of how things should pan out, and I'm inclined to agree with you. Your post is one of the best pieces I've seen on here yet. You running for MEC by chance???

 

[~~~^~~~]

Vee One:

Thanks, but no, I'm not running. But as a joke, someone could put "~~~^~~~" as a write in candidate. It would be amusing to see the results.

If running, it would be unwise to put my cards on the table like that. I sure do appreciate the folks who do take on the task. It is not an easy job.

 

[socony_air]

OK...Again, not here to argue the RJDC - You, myself & a huge portion of our union are never going to agree on this. Set aside your version of 2000 however - what is the lawsuit about now??? All Delta flying by Delta Pilots is for the Pilots at Delta to decide and/or negotiate.

What is the lawsuit about now??? Hide behind DFR all you want, but the Short answer: money. The union has it - someone else wants it.

I agree that a "strong national union" would benefit all pilots. I don't agree that suing your own union for CASH & pissing off a huge portion of the pilots already serving the union is the best way to benefit all pilots. Work it out within the union & let the money stay where it will serve all of us, not just the RJDC windfallees (wc).

ALL that aside. Truce. White Flag. Whatever on the RJDC, 'cause it's going nowhere & I don't really care. My question is: with all your interest in my prior statements..... are you voting for Lynn Jackson?

 

[VeeOne]

ALL that aside. Truce. White Flag. Whatever on the RJDC, 'cause it's going nowhere & I don't really care. My question is: with all your interest in my prior statements..... are you voting for Lynn Jackson?

Why do you need to know who he's voting for- gonna try and change his mind like everyone on this board things they're going to do? Vote for who YOU want-just be willing to live with it either way and know what YOUR vote means.

 

[~~~^~~~]

What is the lawsuit about now??? Hide behind DFR all you want, but the Short answer: money. The union has it - someone else wants it.

Work it out within the union & let the money stay where it will serve all of us, not just the RJDC windfallees (wc).

ALL that aside. Truce. White Flag. Whatever on the RJDC, 'cause it's going nowhere & I don't really care.

Sorry (really sorry) but you asked the question and your civil debate deserves a thoughtful reply.

The lawsuit is about Representation. Your confusion about "representation" is understandable because you probably have not seen it. You are not alone, ALPA's senior leadership, including Mr. Woerth were unable to describe what a "Fiduciary Duty" is when deposed on their obligations to their membership.

So illustrate things in more concrete terms, how about a balance of power? A judiciary where disputes between MEC's could be resolved? How about no more jets for jobs cram downs and no more Compass / Mesaba debacles?

MEC's need to work together, both when it is convenient and particularly when it is inconvenient. ALPA decided that regionals were not going to get effective scope because mainline MEC's deemed it a threat to their power. Now this policy has come full circle and Delta's and NorthWest's rates on similar equipment undermine ASA, while ASA's airplanes are being transferred out of the ALPA's membership. I don't care who you are or where your career is going, the Northwest MEC Chairman said it best when he proclaimed that flying at NorthWest would never return to the career it was.

ALPA (representing Comair, ASA and Delta) was in negotiations with Delta on all three carriers simultaneously for years. How easy would it have been to stop the erosion of Delta's flying while preserving the security of pilots then? In fact, serious discussions about tripartied negotiations did happen. However, ALPA lacked the structure to make it happen. Fixing that structure so that pilots have a voice when their wages and working conditions are being negotiated is what the litigation is about.

ALPA has no obligation to SkyWest, or Chautauqua, or Republic Pilots. But they seem to reap most of the benefits of ALPA's infighting. ALPA desperately needs a way to prevent MEC's from negotiating in a predatory fashion to harm other ALPA members. In fact, our new EVP Tom Zebarini proposed a resolution to stop MEC's from negotiating phantom pay rates on each other's airplanes. This is good, but we need coordination from the top of ALPA's structure to come together as a cohesive force to restore our profession.

OK, I'm willing to call a truce if you are

~~~^~~~

 

[ohplease!]

He is not a timid little worm like you.

thougt you were coming last night for that "beer" I promised you...what happened? Get lost on your way or is all that "billy bad a$$" talk just that? hmmm. Yeah, I thought so.

 

[socony_air]

OK Fins.... I specifically recall asking two questions in my last post....

But I'll accept the truce on the one & the silence on the latter

Good to know that changing the "structure" is what it's all about and that NO MONEY WILL EVER CHANGE HANDS - According to Fins. Right Fins???

OK....truce on.....now.

 

[FightingIrish]

I believe the answer is to vote in different reps who will be reasonable in the demands made to ASA. Its now up to us to effect some change.

I agree, and so do many others.

 

[FightingIrish]

Not that you'll change your mind about your vote, but Nick Tomlin and Danny Utley are also running for Capt's reps for the two LEC Council positions, by far better choices than the LJ Coalition.

I like both Danny and Nick. I have worked with both of them and they are good people. However they represent the same thing we have now. Danny was on the MEC, and Nick is the strike committee chairman. The current approach isn't working. Asking for the moon, hoping for a release, and watching 70's go to Skywest isn't a viable plan for me. I am voting for the LJ Coalition - its time to get this done and move on.

 

["GO AROUND"]

.

One tough nut to crack is the training department. We have some of the best IP's around and I think we should keep our IP's and Standards guys in place. Current book is higher than industry average, but we do get what we pay for. Perhaps there is some room to outsource more while keeping our guys in place at the top of the IP food chain. After all, the current stagnation and fleet re-allocation is very inefficient. SkyWest admitted in the conference call that the 900 & 700 re-allocation was increasing SkyWest's costs. Growth would do a lot to cure the cost problem. Also, the current IP rates were a reaction of a desperate ASA management to keep IP's lat time hiring got hot. All indications are that hiring will get hot again, maybe in 2007, and if that is the case, ASA might once again need to retain IP's by paying them a good wage for their work.

.

The IP's have gotten together themselves and put a proposal together that would get their costs in line with what managment wants. It was given to the company and ALPA to be discussed when they meet again. This was told to me by a few IP's and I believe most if not all the IP's were ok with it. I think it has a lot to do in making them more efficient and productive.

So I believe the IP section is not a factor anymore.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

thougt you were coming last night for that "beer" I promised you...what happened? Get lost on your way or is all that "billy bad a$$" talk just that? hmmm. Yeah, I thought so.

Who the heck are you taking a poke at? You are the coward who lacks the testicular fortitude and conviction of beliefs to stand up and be counted in the crew lounge.

This is FI. Your opinion means exactly jack $hit until you stand up and tell people what you believe in a real life forum, like the crew lounge or an MEC or LEC meeting.

RIght now you are just another cowrdly, sniping, Flight Info jerkoff.