Mesaba Court Ruling Part IV

[Dodge]

My bet is that NWA/XJ wants XJ to liquidate. I have said it a hundred times. First year pay/benies for all Compass peeps compared to the extremetly high seniority throughout XJ. It is the same thing they do with the outstations. The operate as XJ for a few years, then shift enough flying to 9E to tell all the stations that they can be hired back as 9E employees with mass seniority loss. Rinse and repeat a few years down the road and switch em back to XJ.
PIA, MLI, APE, MLU, AEX to name a few.

 

[easydoesit]

Liquidation will never happen with XJ. Do you really think NWA would operate with only one regional for the next year while they are ramping up Compass? That would give way too much leverage to Pinnacle. Never gonna happen. That is not how they operate. They will drag this out to the 11th hour, I guess we are there now, a TA will pass by like 55% and XJ will get the CRJ900's. That is the only way his is going down. Mark my words and easy does it...

 

[XJ-spartacus]

What your saying is that the xj pilots will roll over in order to take delivery of new planes? I thought that was the purpose of our old contract. If they're already willing to take concessions to fly new aircraft, then Spanjiers is smarter than I thought. Threaten enough people long enough, and even lies will motivate the weak. I hope your wrong.

-Spartacus

 

[easydoesit]

I hope I am wrong also but that is my prediction. I did not say all of XJ will roll over. Only 50.00001%-55%. Just my prediction, but that is how I see it going down...I personaly will be voting no to any concessions, but I have heard from too many people who are willing to give the 15% offered by the union just to move on...

 

[redflyer65]

This whole time I have thought that the Mesaba pilots would stand firm against any concessions. But as time goes on and more and more pilots have either been furloughed or moved on to better places, the only ones that are left are the lifers. Unfortunately I think management may have played this like a fine violin. The lifers might just bite on something that the group earlier as a whole wouldn't have. I pray that I'm wrong and that those senior pilots have the will and fortitude to stand up to this garbage that XJ management is trying to ram down their throats. This is criminal.

 

[TAWS]

There's something to be said for just getting a reasonable deal and moving on.
Unfortunately, TW has painted all of you into a corner with his tough talk rhetoric! How's it going to feel when a crappy TA passes and you try and rationalize the choice you made when you voted yes. Mngt knows that even a crappy TA will pass by over 60%. They know you're a gritty group, but all of you can be worn down by consistently grim news, displacements and reduction in your quality of life. What's killing XJ is the senior Pilot and there are plenty of them.
Spanjers isn't the fool you make him out to be. He is the puppet of NWA and even if something is blatently a lie, he will tell it anyway and collect his bonus.
What will you collect for standing up to Big Red?? An unemployment check?
If you're going to talk strike, go ahead and strike, but don't talk tough, then lie down like a wet noodle at the 11th hour.
Remember: No job at all is better than a job not worth having!

 

[YourPilotFriend]

What will you collect for standing up to Big Red?? An unemployment check?
If you're going to talk strike, go ahead and strike, but don't talk tough, then lie down like a wet noodle at the 11th hour.
Remember: No job at all is better than a job not worth having!

In the past, NWA has issued discount coupons to taco bell. We believe that is fair compensation during difficult times.

 

[XJ-spartacus]

Your only worth what you demand.

-Spartacus

 

[Mesabi Miner]

At least I can enjoy the weekend, eh?

 

[Whataboutbob]

Speaking from a furloughed XJ driver looking in I wouldn't blame the guys if a TA passes that is close to what management was demanding. Its not the average line pilots fault that ALPA doesn't have an answer to the race to the bottom. Not many want to be the guy that sacrifices their job for the good of the cause, just ask the United, Delta and NWA guys. Its a great concept we are all in one union but we are all working against each other competing for the work.

 

[Whataboutbob]

If XJ guys don't do the work there will be another regional that will be more than happy to take the flying and I bet there wouldn't be to many people that would quit their job in protest of flying what used to be XJ flying

 

[redflyer65]

One thing is true, we are working more against each other than with each other. There should truely be just one national rate for each aircraft. And then work rules could still be crafted to the individual airline group.

The Mesaba pilots need only to look over at the Northwest pilots to see how things are going after concessions. The Northwest pilots pretty much as a whole are pissed about their new working conditions. And they do suck. Their schedules are much more like the regionals now. 5-leg days, no more crew meals, more reduced rest overnights, etc. Yes they voted on it, but they see the tide is turning with oil coming down and Northwest getting ready to rake in huge profits. Mainline shouldn't have to put up with this type of garbage schedule, but management slipped one past the goalie and here we are.

And now we have Mesaba management trying to drive the regional lifestyle (not that it was any good to begin with) into the gutter. How can even senior pilots vote to take such a huge paycut on top of huge increase in medical premiums? Any TA that comes out is not going to look much better than the crap they have had on the table already. Good luck guys.

 

[Detroitpilot22]

Judge delays Mesaba ruling

Associated Press
Last update: October 12, 2006 – 3:02 PM

A bankruptcy judge is giving Mesaba Airlines and its unions a little more time to talk.


Judge Gregory Kishel had said he would rule today on Mesaba's request for permission to throw out its union contracts with pilots, flight attendants, and mechanics. But the union asked for a delay - and today the judge gave it to them.

Mesaba is a feeder carrier for Northwest Airlines. Both are reorganizing under bankruptcy protection.
The lawyer for Mesaba's creditors opposed the request. Attorneys say the creditors had planned to take some action on Monday if the unions didn't make a deal - but now those unspecified actions are on hold, too.

I might take a lot of heat for this statement, but this is the exact reason i don't like unions. It is more and more looking like they are going to accept this pay rate and mesaba will get what it wants, cheap costs for huge growth. My problem is is that look how long this has stretched out, how stressed out people have been for so long, and it is going to probably be the same result as if they would have just taken they pay cuts the day they went bankrupt. Mesaba's MEC has held firm with statements like we will liquidate and stuff like that, but if they cave in at the last minute after all of this time, it would be a smack in the face to everyone. The same thing is going on with pinnacle right now. Our union has been going around saying scope is a strikable item and that these pay rates managament is proposing are rediculous. They may be right but I am willing to bet that if we ever do sign a contract, it will be for the same rates management wants right now, and we will allow them to create a second certificate. So why drag it out? If we don't get a deal at pinnacle now, we will eventually go bankrupt, and then they will impose this contract or worse on us anyways. Look, I am all for better pay rates and better work rules. I just don't think we will ever get them with the leadership that alpa has. It seems like our union is always quick to talk about a strike, but always quick to take it in the rear in the end.
Here is a perfect example. Worthless and ASA are going to picket Skywest. It has been known that Alpa wants to be the union for skywest pilots. If you were a skywest pilot and saw Alpa protesting your company, why would you want them as your union?

I think there are more and more people as i talk to some pilots in the airlink family that think the same way, you wont hear it on this message board as i am about to get bashed, but I know i am not the only one that feels this way.

 

[PCL_128]

The same thing is going on with pinnacle right now. Our union has been going around saying scope is a strikable item and that these pay rates managament is proposing are rediculous. They may be right but I am willing to bet that if we ever do sign a contract, it will be for the same rates management wants right now, and we will allow them to create a second certificate. So why drag it out? If we don't get a deal at pinnacle now, we will eventually go bankrupt, and then they will impose this contract or worse on us anyways. Look, I am all for better pay rates and better work rules. I just don't think we will ever get them with the leadership that alpa has. It seems like our union is always quick to talk about a strike, but always quick to take it in the rear in the end.

You couldn't be more wrong. Please call me or one of the other union reps. We'd be happy to talk about your concerns.

 

[xjhawk]

okay here is the deal, the creditors are threatening to liquidate and i think the judge beleives them (that they will go for a chapter 7). This is a farce, why would the creditors want liquidation? Mesaba owns nothing to liquidate! yeah, they are going to get millions for....a pilot contract.....some gate agents and rampies....oh yeah, the ramp carts and trucks....i'll buy one of those red trucks for a couple hundred bucks! they are so old and beat up.....my point is there is nothing to liquidate.....and if the judge is dumb enough to beleive it......oh, i am sure he is promised something to stike us down yet again......thats how our bankruptcy laws work.....oh, does anyone know if we can appeal again to a fair court which is higher? and what premise would we be not allowed a strike? that we are too crucial to the nations flying? i doubt that......

 

[Detroitpilot22]

You couldn't be more wrong. Please call me or one of the other union reps. We'd be happy to talk about your concerns.

Just prove me wrong instead

 

[Workin'Stiff]

Just curious, I thought the pilots and flight attendants unions sat on the creditors committee??? Why would they vote for the liquidation of the company in this situation? Or do their votes carry only as much weight as they have at stake in the company, $$$$ wise???

 

[Lear70]

You couldn't be more wrong. Please call me or one of the other union reps. We'd be happy to talk about your concerns.

Sorry to continue a slight thread hijack, but as much as I disagree with PCL on union philosophy, I agree with him on your Scope concerns and will bet yet another C-note that ZERO scope is given up on the PCL side.

I've talked with each and every member of the NC (one is a good friend of mine), and Scope will NOT be a bargaining chip (they have no reason to lie to me, I don't work there anymore).

/hijack

I haven't heard anything from the MSA MEC that they are weakening on the rates at all. Can someone confirm or deny in a quasi-official capacity?

I DO know several MSA guys who just want to get on with their life one way or another. That's one of management's biggest tricks, wear 'em down until they'll sign just about anything to put it behind them. If they had some way of guaranteeing growth with the concessions, I bet it would pass.

But with no guarantee,,,? I hope not. Good luck, guys & gals!

 

[PCL_128]

I haven't heard anything from the MSA MEC that they are weakening on the rates at all. Can someone confirm or deny in a quasi-official capacity?

The last offer that MSA ALPA made to the company included a 5% reduction in payrates with graduated snap-backs as aircraft return to the property.

 

[Lear70]

That's the same thing I heard. What I meant was that I hadn't heard they were weakening any more in the company's direction...

Just wanted to clarify.