Skywest talking pilot pay raise

[SkyNation]

Do you think management is sincere in coming to the table to talk about our pay?

Secondly, a union ANY union whether it be ALPA or In-house would continue to allow a company to be successfull, if a GOOD management team is in place. It also would make the campany more successfull if the company continued to grow and remain profitable with a union on property.

Good questions, not sure I agree with your points, however.

Does SkyWest management want a union on property? Obviously the answer has been NO. THe more important question is, why?

Logic tells me that it is because they believe it would cost the company current or future prospects of flying, bogg down processes, hamper their ability to negotiate, all of which will ultimately cost them money. Their job is to minimize costs, maximize profits.

Unionistas and conspiracy theorists tell me that it is purely an issue of pride, and that Ron, Brad, et al just can't stomach the idea of giving up any amount of control to a union. They theorize that it wouldn't cost the company anything, one guy even tried to tell me we'd save the company money by voting in ALPA.

so, in answer to your question. I think Brad is trying to do what has always been done-convince us that we are better off without a union by offering raises and QOL improvements that equal or exceed what pilots at other regionals get using the processes inherent to ALPA.

what I'm most interested in is results. I cite ASA and Comair because they are large regionals who provide feed to DAL. They have a system, a process, a way of doing things. SkyWest does as well. For me and my family, the SkyWest way provides better results and prospects in terms of QOL, pay, growth opportunities, career opportunities, bases, etc.

 

[imacdog]

Well, the Skywest WAY is getting you CRJ-900s for the same pay rate as your 50 seaters. Wouldn't you rather have a say in what you get paid, or are you happy to continue undercutting other regional airlines?

 

[SkyNation]

Well, the Skywest WAY is getting you CRJ-900s for the same pay rate as your 50 seaters. Wouldn't you rather have a say in what you get paid, or are you happy to continue undercutting other regional airlines?

no one is happy about the pay on the 70/90. did I ever say I was? all I'm saying, is that in the end I feel I'm doing better here than I would be at, oh I don't know, Comair. how's things going over there? how's the future looking?

undercutting is a strong word. we're all competing to provide lift to DAL. pilot pay is only a small part of that total cost.

 

[imacdog]

The future at Comair isn't relevant. No one really knows what the future holds here. Personally I've decided to move on, and it doesn't involve flying a CRJ-900 for 19.02 an hour. It sounds like you are quite happy to get more flying opportunities, despite having no control over your working conditions and pay rates. You work for less and feel that doing so is getting more opportunities for your company. Glad to hear you enjoy helping your company by flying the 900 for not even a cent more than the 200. If you were to unionize you could actually do something about that. Skywest is posting huge profits, why not unionize and demand a fair wage for what you do? This is the time to make it happen. NetJet's union got them a dramatic raise and Skywest pilots are the same position to do so. Don't let this opportunity to improve your life pass.

 

[SkyNation]

imacdog,

I think we agree more than we disagree. I'm not turning down any raise, but the idea that ALPA would allow us to strongarm management and force them to give us one is a fantasy that I don't see supported by the current industry landscape. NetJets is not comparable, their structure is completely different being a fractional rather than a regional.

 

[imacdog]

NetJets is absolutely comparable; they fly under their own name and get their own passengers, but they were making money and paying their pilots sub-par wages. The pilots took the opportunity to improve their conditions and now they enjoy a much-improved contract. They let management worry about making money for the company instead of allowing the huge profits to come from the pilot's wallets.

This is all in addition to the other benefits such as legal representation, insurance, etc that unions such as ALPA provide. I wasn't sure about unions before coming to Comair, but I'm glad we have one now.

 

[indianboy7]

The future at Comair isn't relevant. No one really knows what the future holds here. Personally I've decided to move on, and it doesn't involve flying a CRJ-900 for 19.02 an hour. It sounds like you are quite happy to get more flying opportunities, despite having no control over your working conditions and pay rates. You work for less and feel that doing so is getting more opportunities for your company. Glad to hear you enjoy helping your company by flying the 900 for not even a cent more than the 200. If you were to unionize you could actually do something about that. Skywest is posting huge profits, why not unionize and demand a fair wage for what you do? This is the time to make it happen. NetJet's union got them a dramatic raise and Skywest pilots are the same position to do so. Don't let this opportunity to improve your life pass.

So far, Skywest pilots have waited for less time for a raise than ASA pilots. If skywest pilots don't see a raise when 4 years are up, then your point is valid....they don't have control over anything. However, whatever system is in place at skywest is currently more efficient than at union carriers. The process is the same. The flexibility is what is different. Union workers may have a rock solid contract and a guaranteed vote, but it only matters if both parties are willing to efficiently and expiditiously complete the process. It is my opinion that unionizing will completely stop any forward progress at Skywest. It will also make future negotiations very difficult and slow.

Also, let's not forget the fact that Uncle Jerry and his crew have run their airline without a union for 30 years. They're not going to be happy if a union comes. That fact alone may actually make matters worse for the pilots because management will see it as a betrayal of their relationship with their employees.

Union or not, management can and will do whatever they want whenever they want. Take a look at Mesa, TransStates, Colgan, RegionsAir. Pilots at these airlines take a beating daily with and without unions.

People continually scream about a legally enforceable contract and life becoming better with unions. From what i've seen, this only happens in rare circumstances (expressjet and netjets). What does happen is the placement of a generally bloated and overbearing process. Pilots at ASA have been waiting for years for negotiations to come to an end. In the meantime, the pilots are getting abused, their pay sucks, and they have a very hostile attitude towards their company.

It may not be all peaches and cream at Skywest, but at least there is a possibility of things changing for the better; without hostility,anger and misery. A union at Skywest will take what is a decent relationship and make it into the same relationship that exists between most every other regional carrier and their pilots.

 

[imacdog]

If skywest pilots don't see a raise when 4 years are up, then your point is valid....they don't have control over anything.

Wasn't that whole 70 seaters for 50 seat pay supposed to be for 18 months? What happened there, and isn't there a signed contract you can take to court to get the pay raise you deserve for flying those 70 seaters?

 

[atrdriver]

Why would skywest vote for alpa. Alpa has done NOTHING for reginoals. Skywest has one of the best contracts. They are getting so much growth its silly.

If they vote in alpa then that growth will stop. It may come at the expense of asa but thats life and while asa has alpa its just the way its going to be

Well gee idiot, 5 years ago ASA was growing so much it was silly. We doubled the size of our pilot group in less than 4 years. And unless I am mistaken, ASA was indeed ALPA at that time, weren't we?

 

[indianboy7]

Wasn't that whole 70 seaters for 50 seat pay supposed to be for 18 months? What happened there, and isn't there a signed contract you can take to court to get the pay raise you deserve for flying those 70 seaters?

that signed contract is about the same place that ASA's signed contract is.........seems like it hasn't made a difference for them except for the possibility of shutting down the company with a strike....

 

[atrdriver]

No, they got that because they have a good company

They sure must be passing out some good dope out there.

 

[imacdog]

ASA's contract is currently under negotiations and has nothing to do with the "agreement" made by the Skywest pilots. So let's hear it, it's been over 18 months since you got your 70 seaters, and now you have -900s for 50 seat wages, what went wrong?

 

[purduej]

Just a quick question, how many people complain that Southwest flies 737-800 airplanes for 737-300 seat pay? Or that UPS flies 747 aircraft for 727 pay? Or that FedEx flies 757 airplanes for 727 pay? Or that Continental flies 777 planes for 767 wages? So they make the 700/900 pay different from 200? What if you live in a domicile where Skywest bases 200's? You would have to start commuting for that pay raise.

Yes Skywest needs a raise. But personally I think it should reflect the whole fleet. Ideally 70 seat pay for ALL the airplanes.

 

[imacdog]

The difference of course is, the blended rates are negotiated as blended rates. At Skywest, they took the rate for the smallest plane and applied it to the larger planes. But you knew that.

 

[Ponchus pilot]

Guys stop gargelling what you ear from management:

what I'm most interested in is results. I cite ASA and Comair because they are large regionals who provide feed to DAL. They have a system, a process, a way of doing things. SkyWest does as well. For me and my family, the SkyWest way provides better results and prospects in terms of QOL, pay, growth opportunities, career opportunities, bases, etc.

Here is what no one seems to understand. Just because management is asking for concessions it does not mean the union is not working. It means the exact opposite, the union is working. The Union is run by pilots and as pilots our main goal is to continue flying. Do you think that If Skywest had a union and the company started losing money your union wouldnt make concessions? Ofcourse they would do that. They have to in order to protect your jobs. But on the other hand management has to go through the process and just cant just cut benefits without oversight. Thats why you have contracts.

Comair has had the best pay and benefits for over 5 years now. if they lose money they have to give a little but they will get it back when they start making money again. At Skywest you have been making money and growing and they havent given you what you deserve. You guys deserve much more and that has nothing to do with any other airline and what they make. The point is if your comapny is making money they should pay you reasonably. Not all regionals are making money, many despite low wages like Mesa. Your union along with members with help from financial consultants, lawyers. etc..(provided by ALPA) will decide whats best for you.

People continually scream about a legally enforceable contract and life becoming better with unions. From what i've seen, this only happens in rare circumstances (expressjet and netjets). What does happen is the placement of a generally bloated and overbearing process. Pilots at ASA have been waiting for years for negotiations to come to an end. In the meantime, the pilots are getting abused, their pay sucks, and they have a very hostile attitude towards their company.

What you are saying is only half the story. Yes its true that management at some companies have a hard time following the contract. That has to do with management and nothing to do with a contract, if your management wants to acts like a bunch of ****************************** bags they will do so regardless of if you have a Union or not. That is exactly why you want a Union and a contract. Even though mangement at some airlines does not follow the contact there is a procedure in place for this. Its called " fly and grieve later". When the arbritrator decides in your favor you will get what due to you plus back pay, etc... I believe the guys at Mesa just won a grievece in regards to Re-flow. Now they will get paid properly and get back pay.

 

[Ponchus pilot]

Just a quick question, how many people complain that Southwest flies 737-800 airplanes for 737-300 seat pay? Or that UPS flies 747 aircraft for 727 pay? Or that FedEx flies 757 airplanes for 727 pay? Or that Continental flies 777 planes for 767 wages? So they make the 700/900 pay different from 200? What if you live in a domicile where Skywest bases 200's? You would have to start commuting for that pay raise.

There is no issue with a blended rate. The issue is a low blended rate. SWA and Fedex guys make almost 4 time as much. i dont tink a single Skywest pilot would complain if that was the case.

 

[rtmcfi]

Just a quick question, how many people complain that Southwest flies 737-800 airplanes for 737-300 seat pay? Or that UPS flies 747 aircraft for 727 pay? Or that FedEx flies 757 airplanes for 727 pay? Or that Continental flies 777 planes for 767 wages? So they make the 700/900 pay different from 200? What if you live in a domicile where Skywest bases 200's? You would have to start commuting for that pay raise.

Yes Skywest needs a raise. But personally I think it should reflect the whole fleet. Ideally 70 seat pay for ALL the airplanes.

How many FEDEX, UPS, SWA, or Continental FO's qualify for food stamps?

 

[SSDD]

The reason Skywest is in such a hurry to get the pay agreement done is that they're afraid ASA is going to arbitration. If the arbitrator gave ASA a raise then Skywest would have a hard time not matching those rates, but if Skywest reaches an agreement right now, then they'd have an excuse not to.

 

[SKYW Pilot]

Just a quick question, how many people complain that Southwest flies 737-800 airplanes for 737-300 seat pay?

Just to make a correction, Southwest flies the 737-700 not the 800 which holds approximately 40 more seats in a single class cabin. The 700 and 300 series aircraft hold approximately the same amount of passengers. So the Southwest argument here doesn't apply.

The rates that we're being paid at Skywest right now are our original 50 seat rates... not blended rates. A 90 seat RJ hold 80% more pax than a 50. A 737-800 hold about 25% more pax than a 700. Hardly a valid argument in this case. Should we get paid 80 percent more for flying a 90? I'd love to, but in the current airline industry, I hardly think it's realistic with or without a union. Hopefully, we can work out some kind of blended or split rate for the RJ.

 

[MarineGrunt]

Does anyone have the details on the proposals? Are they looking at 70/76 seat rates?