Comair and Expressjet Pilots Hate RAH?

[I.P. Freley]

The analogy is flawed. Comair and XJet are not flying the same equipment/seat range as DL and CO for less money, and therein lies the difference.

Nice spin.

Now as for how RAH is stealing all this flying with their bar-lowering contract, I picked five data points from airlinepilotcentral:

(All 50-seat rates)
Yr1 FO- RAH and EJ, $22/hr. Comair lowers the bar with $20.
Yr5 FO- EJ-$38, Com- $36, RAH- $35. Wow. That's an astounding difference.
Yr5 Cap- EJ- $66, RAH and Comair- $64. 3% difference. Big whoop.

I don't see these horrific pay differences that are allowing RAH to steal all this flying, people. If anything, Comair is lowering the bar. Go to a yr10 Cap on a 70-seater, and the RAH guy will be making $5/hr MORE than the Comair guy.

I know, I know, the REASON Comair has such mediocre pay is because of RAH... That explains the longevity freeze, right? For all the self-puffery we've been subjected to about how great the Comair group was for their pre-9/11 contract, they sure knuckled under to management in an astounding manner with their CURRENT pay.

I'd love to hear the spin on THAT one, too... Should be as comical as "Well, Comair didn't steal better-paying flying from Delta, but RAH sure did steal it from Comair".

Basically, all three of these companies' pay pales in comparison to Horizon. That 10yr captain in a 70-seater at Horizon is making almost as much as the 10yr captain in a 70-seater at Comair AND the new-hire FO sitting in the next seat COMBINED.

At least I now remember why I stopped posting here... These arguments and threads about "who's stealing whose flying" are exactly the same today as they were a year ago (and five years ago). *sigh*

 

[I.P. Freley]

Where is RAH finding FO's to supplement their growth?

The same place everyone else does, I imagine. People send in resumes, some get interviewed, some get hired. Seems pretty simple.

 

[Paul R. Smith]

our current contract was a hard fought battle for improvement that resulted in a 100% increase in our quality of life, secured scope, and raised all pay.

If you say so.

.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

Nice spin.

Now as for how RAH is stealing all this flying with their bar-lowering contract, I picked five data points from airlinepilotcentral:

(All 50-seat rates)
Yr1 FO- RAH and EJ, $22/hr. Comair lowers the bar with $20.
Yr5 FO- EJ-$38, Com- $36, RAH- $35. Wow. That's an astounding difference.
Yr5 Cap- EJ- $66, RAH and Comair- $64. 3% difference. Big whoop.

I don't see these horrific pay differences that are allowing RAH to steal all this flying, people. If anything, Comair is lowering the bar. Go to a yr10 Cap on a 70-seater, and the RAH guy will be making $5/hr MORE than the Comair guy.

I know, I know, the REASON Comair has such mediocre pay is because of RAH... That explains the longevity freeze, right? For all the self-puffery we've been subjected to about how great the Comair group was for their pre-9/11 contract, they sure knuckled under to management in an astounding manner with their CURRENT pay.

I'd love to hear the spin on THAT one, too... Should be as comical as "Well, Comair didn't steal better-paying flying from Delta, but RAH sure did steal it from Comair".

Basically, all three of these companies' pay pales in comparison to Horizon. That 10yr captain in a 70-seater at Horizon is making almost as much as the 10yr captain in a 70-seater at Comair AND the new-hire FO sitting in the next seat COMBINED.

At least I now remember why I stopped posting here... These arguments and threads about "who's stealing whose flying" are exactly the same today as they were a year ago (and five years ago). *sigh*

Geezus it amazes me how some of you folks are so stuck on thinking that hard pay rates alone are all that determines the value of a contract. Do you not realize that even a few work rule differences from one company to the other can make a substantial difference not only in employee QOL but also in labor costs? I'm willing to bet that the cost of pilot vacations at XJT is substantially higher than at RAH, as we have one of the best vacation policies in the industry. How much more money do you think our company spends every year paying us pilots 100% block or better on all deadheads? These are just two examples.

 

[Capt.PoopyPants]

Do you not realize that even a few work rule differences from one company to the other can make a substantial difference?

What, Do you mean things like no hot reserve, no junior manning and Christmas bonuses?

 

[goodpilotithink]

Nice spin.

Now as for how RAH is stealing all this flying with their bar-lowering contract, I picked five data points from airlinepilotcentral:

(All 50-seat rates)
Yr1 FO- RAH and EJ, $22/hr. Comair lowers the bar with $20.
Yr5 FO- EJ-$38, Com- $36, RAH- $35. Wow. That's an astounding difference.
Yr5 Cap- EJ- $66, RAH and Comair- $64. 3% difference. Big whoop.

I don't see these horrific pay differences that are allowing RAH to steal all this flying, people. If anything, Comair is lowering the bar. Go to a yr10 Cap on a 70-seater, and the RAH guy will be making $5/hr MORE than the Comair guy.

I know, I know, the REASON Comair has such mediocre pay is because of RAH... That explains the longevity freeze, right? For all the self-puffery we've been subjected to about how great the Comair group was for their pre-9/11 contract, they sure knuckled under to management in an astounding manner with their CURRENT pay.

I'd love to hear the spin on THAT one, too... Should be as comical as "Well, Comair didn't steal better-paying flying from Delta, but RAH sure did steal it from Comair".

Basically, all three of these companies' pay pales in comparison to Horizon. That 10yr captain in a 70-seater at Horizon is making almost as much as the 10yr captain in a 70-seater at Comair AND the new-hire FO sitting in the next seat COMBINED.

At least I now remember why I stopped posting here... These arguments and threads about "who's stealing whose flying" are exactly the same today as they were a year ago (and five years ago). *sigh*[/quot

CHAS 70 seat crew cost are less than our 50 seat crew cost
You left that part out.

 

[ERJDRVR]

Geezus it amazes me how some of you folks are so stuck on thinking that hard pay rates alone are all that determines the value of a contract. Do you not realize that even a few work rule differences from one company to the other can make a substantial difference not only in QOL but also in labor costs? I'm willing to bet that the cost of pilot vacations at XJT is substantially higher than at RAH, as we have one of the best vacation policies in the industry. How much more money do you think our company spends every year paying us pilots 100% block or better on all deadheads? These are just two examples.

How is that JR manning going for you??

 

[OldManPilot]

Why was there no statement put out by Teamsters at least condeming the practice of replacing 690 XJT pilots with 690 lower paid Chautauqua new hire pilots?

How is CHQ replacing 690 XJT pilots????? I thought you found a home for those 69 aircraft and that is why you are keeping them?????

 

[SkyBoy1981]

How is that JR manning going for you??

I have never had scheduling even attempt to junior man me. Sometimes I wish they would though as the junior man pay would be nice.

 

[samballs]

Nice spin.

Now as for how RAH is stealing all this flying with their bar-lowering contract, I picked five data points from airlinepilotcentral:

(All 50-seat rates)
Yr1 FO- RAH and EJ, $22/hr. Comair lowers the bar with $20.
Yr5 FO- EJ-$38, Com- $36, RAH- $35. Wow. That's an astounding difference.
Yr5 Cap- EJ- $66, RAH and Comair- $64. 3% difference. Big whoop.

I don't see these horrific pay differences that are allowing RAH to steal all this flying, people. If anything, Comair is lowering the bar. Go to a yr10 Cap on a 70-seater, and the RAH guy will be making $5/hr MORE than the Comair guy.

I know, I know, the REASON Comair has such mediocre pay is because of RAH... That explains the longevity freeze, right? For all the self-puffery we've been subjected to about how great the Comair group was for their pre-9/11 contract, they sure knuckled under to management in an astounding manner with their CURRENT pay.

I'd love to hear the spin on THAT one, too... Should be as comical as "Well, Comair didn't steal better-paying flying from Delta, but RAH sure did steal it from Comair".

Basically, all three of these companies' pay pales in comparison to Horizon. That 10yr captain in a 70-seater at Horizon is making almost as much as the 10yr captain in a 70-seater at Comair AND the new-hire FO sitting in the next seat COMBINED.

At least I now remember why I stopped posting here... These arguments and threads about "who's stealing whose flying" are exactly the same today as they were a year ago (and five years ago). *sigh*

Your an idiot if scum bags like you weren't willing to fly for those crap rates we would have never had to worry about freezes and such. We have work rules, you have some, we have pride, you guys have yourselves to make each other feel like you do. Theres a reason everyone hates you guys, you guys remind me of the sh*t I stepped in yesterday. I dont like mesa for their contract and such but for the most part the guys there are good guys and they know their at a sh*t company. You guys on the other hand think you have a great job make good money, yes your company is doing good but your not, you make poor wages and get abused on a daily basis, and this shows in your attitudes and appearances today in concourse A I watched a captain from RP get two subs from Quiznos then proceed to sit down at gate A6 untuck his shirt and eat not one but both of them, well keep eating piggy cause thats all you have to live for working at RP.. And finally can guys please stop sounding so immature on the radios and especially on atlanta radio, learn to make decisions and not have your dispatchers tell you what to do. dissapear RP and please take all you pilots with you.

 

[The Drizzle]

I'll bite big man. Why didn't you go and talk to that slob of a captain about his appearance? Why didn't you stop to ask why he was working for RAH, oh wait you know the answer already, because he is a scumbag. Grow a pair if you feel so strongly about it.

 

[snap145]

Your an idiot if scum bags like you weren't willing to fly for those crap rates we would have never had to worry about freezes and such. We have work rules, you have some, we have pride, you guys have yourselves to make each other feel like you do. Theres a reason everyone hates you guys, you guys remind me of the sh*t I stepped in yesterday. I dont like mesa for their contract and such but for the most part the guys there are good guys and they know their at a sh*t company. You guys on the other hand think you have a great job make good money, yes your company is doing good but your not, you make poor wages and get abused on a daily basis, and this shows in your attitudes and appearances today in concourse A I watched a captain from RP get two subs from Quiznos then proceed to sit down at gate A6 untuck his shirt and eat not one but both of them, well keep eating piggy cause thats all you have to live for working at RP.. And finally can guys please stop sounding so immature on the radios and especially on atlanta radio, learn to make decisions and not have your dispatchers tell you what to do. dissapear RP and please take all you pilots with you.

wow that was more of the intelligent comments i think ive ever heard....HEAR YE HEAR YE...if youve ever eaten two subs from Quiznos DO NOT APPLY to become an airline pilot....anyone that can slam down two delicious grilled subs obviously doesnt have the mental aptitude or the decision making skills to go to a GOOD airline (IE: everywhere but RP)....dude you are a serious spaz...GET A FREAKING LIFE...nit picky crap like this makes you sound like a pansy ass little girl....i mean its very obvious to me just by listening to you talk that you are waaaay too good to every step onboard an RP airplane....and since you saw one pilot act in an unprofessional manner you automatically think that everyone who gets up in the morning and puts a Chautauqua uniform on is exactly as unprofessional and is simply in this business to make your life miserable...not to pay bills and support families....you are a waste of carbon and i pity anyone who has to sit next to you in a cockpit for four days at a time...go ahead with your next comeback as to how im just as bad and im a piece of lowly trash because YES i fly for Chatauqua....get over yourself...things are by no means great in this industry but its dirt like you that makes it as bad as it is....im done FLAME AWAY

 

[samballs]

I'll bite big man. Why didn't you go and talk to that slob of a captain about his appearance? Why didn't you stop to ask why he was working for RAH, oh wait you know the answer already, because he is a scumbag. Grow a pair if you feel so strongly about it.

not my job if you want people to look at you like that then good for you, they see you for what you are.

 

[The Drizzle]

not my job if you want people to look at you like that then good for you, they see you for what you are.

So pretty much, you have no spine.

 

[samballs]

wow that was more of the intelligent comments i think ive ever heard....HEAR YE HEAR YE...if youve ever eaten two subs from Quiznos DO NOT APPLY to become an airline pilot....anyone that can slam down two delicious grilled subs obviously doesnt have the mental aptitude or the decision making skills to go to a GOOD airline (IE: everywhere but RP)....dude you are a serious spaz...GET A FREAKING LIFE...nit picky crap like this makes you sound like a pansy ass little girl....i mean its very obvious to me just by listening to you talk that you are waaaay too good to every step onboard an RP airplane....and since you saw one pilot act in an unprofessional manner you automatically think that everyone who gets up in the morning and puts a Chautauqua uniform on is exactly as unprofessional and is simply in this business to make your life miserable...not to pay bills and support families....you are a waste of carbon and i pity anyone who has to sit next to you in a cockpit for four days at a time...go ahead with your next comeback as to how im just as bad and im a piece of lowly trash because YES i fly for Chatauqua....get over yourself...things are by no means great in this industry but its dirt like you that makes it as bad as it is....im done FLAME AWAY

things are bad and you guys keep making it worse

 

[JD2003]

a bunch of job stealing EMB 170 wanna be poser FAGS!

 

[The Drizzle]

wow that was more of the intelligent comments i think ive ever heard....HEAR YE HEAR YE...if youve ever eaten two subs from Quiznos DO NOT APPLY to become an airline pilot....anyone that can slam down two delicious grilled subs obviously doesnt have the mental aptitude or the decision making skills to go to a GOOD airline (IE: everywhere but RP)....dude you are a serious spaz...GET A FREAKING LIFE...nit picky crap like this makes you sound like a pansy ass little girl....i mean its very obvious to me just by listening to you talk that you are waaaay too good to every step onboard an RP airplane....and since you saw one pilot act in an unprofessional manner you automatically think that everyone who gets up in the morning and puts a Chautauqua uniform on is exactly as unprofessional and is simply in this business to make your life miserable...not to pay bills and support families....you are a waste of carbon and i pity anyone who has to sit next to you in a cockpit for four days at a time...go ahead with your next comeback as to how im just as bad and im a piece of lowly trash because YES i fly for Chatauqua....get over yourself...things are by no means great in this industry but its dirt like you that makes it as bad as it is....im done FLAME AWAY

relax

 

[172driver]

Nice spin.

Now as for how RAH is stealing all this flying with their bar-lowering contract, I picked five data points from airlinepilotcentral:

(All 50-seat rates)
Yr1 FO- RAH and EJ, $22/hr. Comair lowers the bar with $20.
Yr5 FO- EJ-$38, Com- $36, RAH- $35. Wow. That's an astounding difference.
Yr5 Cap- EJ- $66, RAH and Comair- $64. 3% difference. Big whoop.

I don't see these horrific pay differences that are allowing RAH to steal all this flying, people. If anything, Comair is lowering the bar. Go to a yr10 Cap on a 70-seater, and the RAH guy will be making $5/hr MORE than the Comair guy.

I know, I know, the REASON Comair has such mediocre pay is because of RAH... That explains the longevity freeze, right? For all the self-puffery we've been subjected to about how great the Comair group was for their pre-9/11 contract, they sure knuckled under to management in an astounding manner with their CURRENT pay.

I'd love to hear the spin on THAT one, too... Should be as comical as "Well, Comair didn't steal better-paying flying from Delta, but RAH sure did steal it from Comair".

Basically, all three of these companies' pay pales in comparison to Horizon. That 10yr captain in a 70-seater at Horizon is making almost as much as the 10yr captain in a 70-seater at Comair AND the new-hire FO sitting in the next seat COMBINED.

At least I now remember why I stopped posting here... These arguments and threads about "who's stealing whose flying" are exactly the same today as they were a year ago (and five years ago). *sigh*

Again, the logic is flawed. You are comparing Comair pay rates that are about 25% lower than the original contract to current RAH rates and wondering why all the flying is being shifted. Most of that flying was shifted when our rates were vastly higher than they are now...at least as high as Horizon, who you tout.

Notice I did not mention "our flying" or "being stolen." Fact is, mainline management has figured out how to shift THEIR flying to the cheapest carrier to maximize profit/minimize loss, and to keep all labor groups in check, off balance, and in fear.

Don't know where Airline Pilot Pay got those numbers, but I'm making $38 as a 3rd yr FO here...10% higher than a 5 yr RAH FO, AFTER the pay freeze. Not going to research the rest of it cause I don't have the time, but obviously the #'s are inaccurate. Perhaps they reflect the pay cut we have not yet taken.

Also, what does CHQ pay for deadheads, per diem, retirement? Block or better per leg? How about duty limits? Rigs? Displacement credit? Vacation? Days off? How senior is their pilot group and why is that?

Again, I'm not bashing the pilot group or their contract. Just stating that their labor costs are lower, resulting in lower bids for flying.

I am not proud of where we have gone with our contract in recent months, did not vote for the cut, fought vocally against it, and will not defend it. All I can say is that management holds the cards... we were very expensive pilots and FA's relative to the industry and that was the incentive for us to be liquidated, which was a scarier thought for some than others. I understand why the cut passed but don't condone it.

Does anyone out there think Comair pilots would have voted for a cut/freeze of any type IF RAH, Mesa, SKYW, ASA had contracts rivalling ours?

 

[samballs]

So pretty much, you have no spine.

YEP, actually I was getting on another plane and IM sure as hell not gonna get off to save that fat fat AS* from his impending heart attack

 

[The Drizzle]

all it simply takes is, "hey buddy, shirts untucked"