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Yuck. More propaganda for the uninformed

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Jeff G

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 25, 2001
Posts
184
Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University, through its Aviation & Space Technology Academy (ASTA), is making it possible for a qualified individual to transition from aviation enthusiast to regional airline pilot in less than a year through its new accelerated First Officer Flight Training (FOFT) program.

The innovative 10-12-month course, which trains first officer candidates to regional airline and corporate fleet standards, gives candidates 550 hours of total flight experience and advanced jet simulator flight time, preparing them for positions as first officers with domestic regional airlines.

“We established this program to take advantage of opportunities created by an anticipated shortage of qualified pilots, unprecedented growth of the regional airline industry, and market demand in aviation,” says George Ebbs, president of Embry-Riddle. “It is a practical response to the needs of our industry.”

A recent Embry-Riddle survey shows that commercial aviation will need more than 11,000 new pilots by 2003, yet only slightly more than 7,500 qualified civilian and military pilots will enter the field that year. With plans by the Federal Aviation Administration to increase the capacity of the nation’s airports and airways by 30 percent, the pilot crunch will continue to be a problem for years to come.

What dreamworld are these people living in? There are thousands of pilots out of work, and they think a 550 hour pilot is going to take the industry by storm?
 
Well.......I had a guy at ASA who was lets just say in the high teens there in pilot senority which I would think was fairly high up walk my resume in and I got a form letter 1200 hours etc. The next week I met a guy with less than 300 hours who was graduating from Riddle and had already started training on the EMB120 with ASA. He had already gone through the part where you and several classmates sit on the ground with the engines running for several hours whatever part that is. ASA was kind enough to send me a "kit" though from flight safety saying that if I wanted to give them $30,000 bucks I to could fly with someone for 6 weeks in various aircraft and then get an interview with ASA, ie.. FlightSafety would put in the "good word to the point of an interview I guess." My first thought was, "Wonder how much it would cost to buy a job being a brain surgeon?" Bet those guys get paid a lot. :)

RT
 
Riddle P-F-T

The innovative 10-12-month course, which trains first officer candidates to regional airline and corporate fleet standards, gives candidates 550 hours of total flight experience and advanced jet simulator flight time, preparing them for positions as first officers with domestic regional airlines.

(emphasis added)

I don't know exactly how to take that. 550 hours of training on top of what you might have? Or, zero to 550 hours. Do you also have to earn your B.S. at Riddle?

In any event, times must be tough for ERAU. It's sounds to me as if Riddle is getting into the (quasi-semi) P-F-T biz.
Interesting . . . is ERAU trying to compete with TAB Express down the road????

A recent Embry-Riddle survey shows that commercial aviation will need more than 11,000 new pilots by 2003, yet only slightly more than 7,500 qualified civilian and military pilots will enter the field that year. With plans by the Federal Aviation Administration to increase the capacity of the nation’s airports and airways by 30 percent, the pilot crunch will continue to be a problem for years to come.

I also like how ERAU has picked up the Kit Darby "pilot shortage" theme.

Hopefully, interested people will get plenty of advice on undoubtedly what will be an expensive program before signing up. Advice on the pilot "shortage," for one. Pros and cons of P-F-T for another.

And, the beat goes on . . . .
 
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There will always be a "shortage of qualified pilots" but first we have to define what the industry thinks a "qualified pilot" is...

Definition of Qualified Pilot:

One who has lofty aspirations of landing a dream job with the majors in just a few short years despite the current state of the industry and is willing to undermine the livleyhoods of other fellow pilots by entering into expensive intern-type training programs known as "ab-initio" whereby the candidate receives little or no compensation for his/her services as First Officer.

No physical qualifications required other than a pulse.

Those interested please call 1-800 Jet-Jock.
:rolleyes:
 
Another New One

I heard Flight Safety Has a new one called

First officer Underqualified Crash Kourse

Wonder what else they will come up with to part fools from their money?
 
This will probably incite a riot, but I have to put in my $.02. Everyone that is hired by ANY airline and completes Initial training has paid their dues one way or another.

A Military Pilot gives many years of his/her life for relatively little pay to achieve the qualifications it takes to be hired by a major airline. To the people that have the ability, dedication and courage to complete this method I have nothing but the utmost respect.

The Flight Instructor who is hired by an airline has spent a lot of money and effort to complete their ratings and has followed that up with many grueling hours teaching our future aviators the craft for very little compensation. My hat goes off to these individuals as well.

The individual that has the dedication, ability and endurance, as well as the financial backing to complete an ab-initio program deserves no less respect from their fellow aviators or myself. These individuals are trained from day 1 using methodologies employed by the airlines to train their own recruits. The fact that their qualifications are accelerated by money does not detract from the fact that a significant amount of blood, sweat, and tears have been expended to meet the high standard required to pass a Part 121 Proficiency Check.

I get the feeling that most people believe that the persons that complete ab-initio training are wealthy individuals that buy their jobs. That may be true in a limited number of instances. The people that I know who have done this have sacrificed much in order to complete the program. Some examples are life savings, an excellent job, and separation from family to name a few. Take a minute before you judge and ask someone who has gone this route to tell you their story. You might be surprised at the sacrifice and dues paying that may have occurred to “fast track” their way to the airlines. BTW, I’ve seen the type that just wants to pay for a job. They usually don’t make it through primary training.

Ok, let’s hear it. I’ve got big shoulders.

P.S. For those that care (and I know some do) I was an ab-initio guy. Big Surprise, huh?
 
Allow me to temper this response by saying that I've flown with a bunch of guys who were ab-initio grads, and most are really good guys whom I enjoy flying with...

AutoTransfer said:


The individual that has the dedication, ability and endurance, as well as the financial backing to complete an ab-initio program deserves no less respect from their fellow aviators or myself.

Umm...right.

Dedication is shown by the guys out there who have been furloughed, had their companies go out of business, etc. and who are still out there flying the line.

Ability is shown by the guy who flew single pilot IFR night in a beat up Baron hauling radioactive samples.

Endurance is shown by the guys who taught for 2 years and managed not to murder their students or get themselves killed.

The ab-initio guys are untested in all these arenas. They managed to scrape together 30k and they bought themselves a job. I've flown with pleanty of ab-initio guys, just after they got out of training, and while most of them can fly the airplane without scaring me, ALL of them lack the decision making skills, and the knowledge that can only be gained through experience.

Then, I've flown with the same guys months later, and they have learned, and gained experience and are much more useful when things get rough.

My point isn't to attack ab-initio pilots, even though I'm not fond of those programs. It is simply to say that just because you made it through a 121 SIC Checkride, doesn't mean you are on the same level as someone in that same seat with a lot more experience before they got there. A 121 SIC ride isn't really very tough.

And, it CERTAINLY doesn't mean that you've paid your dues. Try telling that to the guy who taught me how to fly. It wouldn't get you very far.

Now, on to the original reason for my post. Some of those 300 hour guys that are refered to above as coming from Riddle, were interns for us. If the company liked them, many of them are invited to come and interview later. But, there are no guarantees for them.

The other low timers bought their job.

EVERYBODY else we are hiring right now have a lot of experience, most have prior 121 time. This is why you would have gotten a letter referencing the mins, while someone else may not have.


P.S. Those ab-initio pilots also missed one more thing. They missed all the fun you can have with GA. Even though it was tough, it was a lot of fun at times.
 
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P-F-T

AutoTransfer said:
The fact that their qualifications are accelerated by money does not detract from the fact that a significant amount of blood, sweat, and tears have been expended to meet the high standard required to pass a Part 121 Proficiency Check . . . . . I get the feeling that most people believe that the persons that complete ab-initio training are wealthy individuals that buy their jobs. That may be true in a limited number of instances. The people that I know who have done this have sacrificed much in order to complete the program. Some examples are life savings, an excellent job, and separation from family to name a few . . . .

(emphasis added)

Violins, anyone?

Good training should be tough. Arguing that you had to work hard and study a little to pass a training program will gain you no sympathy.

I've written my story so many times that I won't repeat it in full. I was over forty eleven years ago. I had changed careers and had built up my times and ratings through flight instructing to past the commuter quals of the day, which were 1500 total-500 multi - much higher than today (Realistically, 2500 total got you hired, but I had that, too.). I made sacrifices. I couldn't get a commuter job. Flight instructors who were way under forty were getting the few commuter jobs that could be had. P-F-T was starting up back then. Despite my quals, it became obvious to me that my only chance would be to pay my way in.

Don't tell me that P-F-T is a sacrifice. Notwithstanding the other bad things P-F-T symbolizes, it became apparent to me that money talks in this business. That was one reason why I got out. No job is worth buying.
 
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Jeff G

Could you provide a link or reference for that article? I would like to have the full copy so when ERAU sends me another letter asking for a Alumni donation, I can tell them why they can fu@K themselves.
 
Experience!

"The ab-initio guys are untested in all these areas. They managed to scrape together 30k and they bought themselves a job. I've flown with pleanty of ab-initio guys, just after they got out of training, and while most of them can fly the airplane without scaring me, ALL of them lack the decision making skills, and the knowledge that can only be gained through experience. "

First of all, this is no way a slam to anyone. I respect anyone that I am flying with with the exception of a very small unprofessional minority. These are just observations that I have personally seen. I can also state right up front that I am learning something new everytime I fly, and one thing is deffinitely certain, I don't know everything (nor can I spell)!


After watching these 300 hour wonders progress over the past couple of years, and watching the 1500 hour Capt's that were once a product of these programs, I can deffinitely see a trend. Several of the past incidents at my airline came from individual Capts that were once from a PFT program. Decision making skills are really never learned to there fullest potential. When a military, CFI, or Cargo etc. guy is out there flying outside the structured 121 operations, they learn a great deal about their environment. They get into situations that they have to make a decision to fix it. They constantly learn from these episodes. The 300 hour wonder has been in a closed structured envinronment his whole carrier and supervised from day one. He always is told what to do by virtue of a CFI, PC, Company profiles, dispatch, etc. These guys really get no oportunity to make their own decisions at least up untill they get their type and move to the left seat. Even then, they really arent subjected to the pressures of being on there own. But is that the time to start really learning? Real red light emergencies rarely happen, but combine a serious emergency with wx, com problems, new FO etc., you have a very oversaturated individual. The real problem here is when something happens outside the day to day norm. They tend to become very poor decision makers. Not all, but many that I know, PFT Cpts and FO's, are very impressed with their flying abilities. In other words, none of them has had a real down to earth emergency to let them know that they are not infallible. Most of the experienced single pilot and mil guys have learned to keep the aircraft out of any position that they would have to use their skills to get them out of it. They can stay way ahead of the aircraft and are able to see and hear things materializing ahead of them and be able to take action now to stop it. It wasn't if you were going to have an emergency, it was when you have and emergency!

I guess the whole point here is that I beleive many of these types of individuals need to realise is that experience is not bought, it is earned. They also need to realise their own experience base and do everything in their power to learn as much as they can. At least at my place of employment, the company has stopped taking these idividuals because of training problems. Not really sure if they have started up again, but who knows.
 
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