You're Welcome SkyWest

[SkyNation]

Is it your understanding that the pay increase, theoretical, at this point, will be offered out of the benevolence of Mr. Atkin's heart?

where do you get that?

he said "The reason they're talking money is because they can't get enough new hires" and I agreed with him.

 

[duck_killer]

OK so let me get this straight. An ASA pilot gives us rates if/when we catch up to them. But when they catch up to us on 401K, etc. somehow it's not coat tail riding? And Trojan find a better word than asinine, it makes you sound childish.

 

[skyhogg]

It's much better than Communism. Capitalism and the market economy have been wonderful to me.

Not what I said and not the point. I made no reference to any other system. Point is that there are many different opinions out there but when someone agrees with skynation...he "gets it"...

 

[skywav8r]

Hey skywesters,
Skywest voted down alpa in 99. Management, out of the goodness of their hearts gave everyone a raise. Comair went on strike and raised the bar. Skywest matched what they had. Skywest pilots, since then have lowered the bar. Asa pilots struggle to get a new contract being whipsawed against skywest pilots. They finally get a contract which includes higher pay for first year pilots. Skywest pilots once again are rewarded for work done by union pilots. Sapa, the entity not the people, should get NO credit for the recent gains. Thank you ASA. Comair, and every other regional out there that has tried to raise the regional pilots quality of life. Sorry the majority here don't seem to want to help.

 

[Gandalf]

For all of those $19.25ers out there.....

A little history lesson.....

"The 18 Month TA dated July 1, 2003 through December 31,2004 - SAPA President CA......
......The Tentative Agreement
-18 month duration
- Current pay scales for current aircraft
- All longevity increases remain intact
- 50-99 seat rates (current 50 seat rates) - so in order for us to get the 70s on property management asked and SAPA agreed and endorsed freezing pay for 18 months.

At the end of 18 months...."SAPA President DL's pay letter to BH ~2004
Dear B,
I am writing to you in my capacity as President of The SkyWest Airlines Pilot's Association (SAPA) regarding the pay scale that SAPA proposes to become effective January 1, 2005.....
......The CRJ 50 and 70-seat pay scales submitted herewith are reflective of the top industry scales that will become effective in 2005. Adoption of these pay scales will meet the expressed desire of the company and SAPA. Further, the submitted pay scales reflect year over year percentage increases of 2.5%, 3.0% and 3.5% in order to keep them at the top of the industry during the term of the agreement.....

.....With regard to the pay scale for the EMB-120 aircraft, SAPA proposes a percentage increase of 4.7% to account for the increase in the cost of living since the current pay scales were adopted in June, 2002. This scale also reflects year over year percentage increases of 2.5%, 3.0% and 3.5% in order to keep it at the top of the industry during the term of the agreement.
.....SAPA notes the continued profitability of the company as announced on July 21, 2004. SAPA is gratified and encouraged by the results our management team has achieved with the help of this pilot group and all employee groups of SkyWest Airlines......"

And then...."President DA's pay TA letter dated September 19, 2005
Fellow SkyWest Pilots,

The first draft of this letter was completed on Labor Day 2005, an appropriate day to conclude our pay negotiations.....
.....Many of you have indicated that you prefer a larger increase in base rates, as opposed to participation in the incentive plans. In response, we extended the pay talks to explore every feasible way to increase base rates. After considering several proposals from us, management has agreed to an across-the-board increase of 1.2% for all pilots, in addition to our continued participation in the incentive plans. While some may feel that 1.2% isn’t much, and we’d love to have been able to say it’s more, this percentage is consistent with the increase given to other employee groups(NOT OTHER PILOT GROUPS IN THE INDUSTRY) who were already participating in the company bonus plan.....

We said no thanks....

Meanwhile we had been working on QOL....."Enter the work rule proposal (Initially Proposed to mngnt December 2004):

2 hour Short-Call for all domiciles for reserve pilots
• Establish a 12 hour Long-Call for reserve pilots(Hasn't happened)
• Max 18 duty days per bid period, i.e. 12-13 days off for all pilots(Hasn't happened)
• 4:10 Minimum Daily Guarantee for all pilots(Hasn't Happened)
• Establish a Minimum Staffing Level Requirement formula coupled with monetary incentives, i.e. 150% pay above 87 hrs, if the average credit per domicile with PBS is above 90 hours at the beginning of the bidding process.
• Establish a reserve list transparency able to be seen by all pilots, i.e. any pilot will be able to see the current reserve staffing levels system wide and at each domicile.(Hasn't happened - even with implementation of Sked+)
In a July 2006 Fights Ops meeting with BH and the SAPA Executive Board, BH conveys to the EB that there might be some room for pay."(Thanks B, might be some room - nice!)


Here we are still working on those QOL issues...."Along with pay scales we also discussed 401(k) issues, anniversary date pay adjustments, pay for passport renewals, electronic flight bag, reserve transparency, and long call reserve, performance rewards /financial rewards into the crew member policy manual and 11 days off per month for reserves...."

Then....."November 14, 2006
Fellow SkyWest Pilots,
SAPA is pleased to inform you that a recent vote regarding the attached pay proposal was conducted among your Regional Representatives. The proposal was approved by the Representative Board.
......The pay proposal provides for a base jet rate and a base turboprop rate effective January 1, 2007. The base jet rate will be our current 50-99 seat scale, plus 1%, and will apply to the 40-59 seat jets. The base turboprop rate will be our current turboprop scale....Credit time for the CRJ-700/900 will be adjusted by using the Block Hour Override (BHO)..."

And now in November 2007 - "....It appears that first year pay rates are some of the lowest in the industry. Next we talked about how the Brasilia pilot’s base rates were left out of the last pay package.....As for the jet rates, it looks like the 50 seat rates are near average while the 700 and 900 rates are starting to fall below average...."

SAPA OUR "Bargining Group" WERE THE ONES WHO AGREED ON THIS WITH MANAGEMENT AND SENT US THE ORIGINAL PAY PROPOSAL A YEAR AGO AND ARE NOW SAYING THAT OH, NO....JEEZ....YOU MEAN, LIKE OMG FIRST YEAR PAY SUCKS, OH, YOU MEAN LIKE OMG WE MISSED THE BRO GUYS, OH, YOU MEAN, OMG...HMMM....THE 70/90 RATES ARE STARTING TO FALL BELOW AVERAGE.....

So, at the end of 2004 you asked for a 2.5, 3.0, and 3.5% pay increase, a 4.7% increase for COLA for the Bro guys - a year later you were cheerleading for a 1.2% across the board increase, a year later, we get "we are PLEASED to give you 1% over 4 years", and now we get a letter that all of you are drooling over and saying yee haa we are getting more money.....

Ok, the problem is attracting new hires...What's to say they just increase the first year pay without anything else....remember at-will, no contract...they can do that....

And further more, what is to say that management is going to say yes to anything that SAPA wants....It's been pretty obvious that management doesn't really care what SAPA asks for, or proposes.

So, before you all go nuts and go out and buy a new car because you think that because we got some email saying that we are getting a raise by Jan. 1. - You might want to think twice about it.
You really think that we are getting anything, and if we do how can it be anything appreciable, because we have already proved to management over the last 3-4 years that SAPA has no say in the matter. With a union drive going on management could have satisfied a lot of us with a good faith raise along with some QOL improvements and they couldn't even do that. But suddenly, supply and demand is going to drive them to pay us more.....They have been dealing with supply problems a long time...with no great results.

So, I for one am happy to have a job, but certainly not getting too excited by this.

 

[front9]

Originally Posted by scarlet http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?p=1464039#post1464039

Scabs !!!

Another well thought-out relevant post by Scarlet, good job buddy.

 

[John Pennekamp]

We got those for us and we had them way before you. When our pilot group was worth a crap they got em for us.My point is if your gonna pull the coat tailing card then it goes both ways.

FWIW, you got them when Comair raised the bar. You didn't fight for crap!!!!!

 

[John Pennekamp]

SkyWest had better work rules than ASA, then ASA caught up to them, now SkyWest is being caught up to ASA and hopefully Pinnacle and Republic will one up them, isn't this the type of progressive bargaining we should all be excited about.

Again, SkyWest got them when the rode the coattails of AirWis, Comair and XJet. Try again.

 

[John Pennekamp]

OK so let me get this straight. An ASA pilot gives us rates if/when we catch up to them. But when they catch up to us on 401K, etc. somehow it's not coat tail riding? And Trojan find a better word than asinine, it makes you sound childish.

Yeah, I guess ASA is the only regional that ever got a contract. Tard.

 

[yellowfever]

Hey skywesters,
Skywest voted down alpa in 99. Management, out of the goodness of their hearts gave everyone a raise. Comair went on strike and raised the bar. Skywest matched what they had. Skywest pilots, since then have lowered the bar. Asa pilots struggle to get a new contract being whipsawed against skywest pilots. They finally get a contract which includes higher pay for first year pilots. Skywest pilots once again are rewarded for work done by union pilots. Sapa, the entity not the people, should get NO credit for the recent gains. Thank you ASA. Comair, and every other regional out there that has tried to raise the regional pilots quality of life. Sorry the majority here don't seem to want to help.

Good post! Skywest should have been leading the industry in pay for the last several years based on economies of scale. Instead, with the pay freeze, the pilot compensation has eroded. You guys at Skywest should consider yourself lucky that you have a unionized sister carrier.

 

[Tomct]

Of course if Skywest had voted in ALPA, it would be 3-5 years before there were any pay increases.... Instead they get them immediately.... and don't have to pay 1.95%....

Well who knew that it would take "Joe Duche" this long in the thread to make an Anti-Union statement! Hey Joe....how big is your "bonus" check going to be THANKS TO THE UNION LEADERSHIP? Yeah...that's what I thought...SHUT IT!!!!! JackAss!

 

[front9]

Yeah...that's what I thought...SHUT IT!!!!! JackAss!

I was wondering when "Tomcant - the internet toughguy" was going to show up. This thing almost went 5 pages without a "SHUT IT" I was getting worried.

 

[Soverytired]

Rather, it seems to be driven by, "We can't find anybody to fly our aircraft, so we'll have to throw more money at them".

Who gives a flying fart as to the "why" if they're improving pay and/or work rules?

I don't look to my employer for validation or approval.

Take them to the cleaners, fight for every penny, but never expect a hearty "Thank You" . . .because when that garbage comes spewing forth, watch your wallet . . . no matter who it's coming from!

(Friends and family excepted. Mostly )

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Who gives a flying fart as to the "why" if they're improving pay and/or work rules?

Why? Because if SKW was filling classes with no problem, they wouldn't need to raise pay to entice people to work there.

SKW pilots have already told management that they will take whatever SGU wants to give them. (or not give them)

 

[fastback]

Did management at ASA attempt to raise new-hire pay at ASA through a side-letter prior to the TA?

 

[sweptback]

Did management at ASA attempt to raise new-hire pay at ASA through a side-letter prior to the TA?

Yes, and the union correctly told them to finish the contract if they wanted their new hire pay so badly.

 

[fastback]

Yes, and the union correctly told them to finish the contract if they wanted their new hire pay so badly.

Similar thing is happening over here. Having trouble filling classes, so pay needs to be raised. Apparently, the initial offer by CC was low, and was rejected to include [hopefully] the whole pilot group. But the point is that the offer was not made to even up compensation at the two carriers, or out of the goodness of anyone's heart, but to attract qualified employees. As the pilot shortage progresses, pay increases will occur to retain qualified employees. It's economics, and it works with or without an antagonistic union.

 

[Gandalf]

Similar thing is happening over here. Having trouble filling classes, so pay needs to be raised. Apparently, the initial offer by CC was low, and was rejected to include [hopefully] the whole pilot group. But the point is that the offer was not made to even up compensation at the two carriers, or out of the goodness of anyone's heart, but to attract qualified employees. As the pilot shortage progresses, pay increases will occur to retain qualified employees. It's economics, and it works with or without an antagonistic union.

That right there is the whole problem!
When negiotiating pay issues there shouldn't even be a "Hopefully".
But, Hopefully SAPA will grab its ba!!s and man up,Hopefully it will be for everyone, not just the new hires (cuz' if I was JA and the board thats what I'd be pullin' for - to get people IN the door - losing people off the top is not so bad a thing because with it goes higher salaries)

Hopefully, Hopefully, Hopefully.....

You know what I Hope for - SAPA to be a little more antagonistic.....That would be nice......Oh, wait I just woke up....never mind.

Antagonistic (adjective)
1. indicating opposition or resistance

Synonym of antagonize = Mollify = Placate, Pacify, Appease.

 

[joe_pilot]

SKW pilots have already told management that they will take whatever SGU wants to give them. (or not give them)

This is just not true.

That is a ridiculous oversimplification that ignores the complexities of the issue. The ones who actually made an informed decision and chose a "no" by not voting (as opposed to those who were apathetic and didn't call) were potentially saying a couple of things: that they didn't like ALPA; they were happy so far with the way the company treats them-including compensation and work rules; that management wasn't firing people left and right for bogus reasons and that they are independent, free thinkers. Their vote in no way prevents them from doing something differently in the future.

Even though I voted differently than they did, I support the decision that these fellow pilots made. The ones who were lazy or were incapable of coherent thought and action, well lets just say my opinion of them is other than supportive.

Fly Safe.

-JP

 

[fastback]

That right there is the whole problem!
When negiotiating pay issues there shouldn't even be a "Hopefully".
But, Hopefully SAPA will grab its ba!!s and man up,Hopefully it will be for everyone, not just the new hires (cuz' if I was JA and the board thats what I'd be pullin' for - to get people IN the door - losing people off the top is not so bad a thing because with it goes higher salaries)

Hopefully, Hopefully, Hopefully.....

You know what I Hope for - SAPA to be a little more antagonistic.....That would be nice......Oh, wait I just woke up....never mind.

Antagonistic (adjective)
1. indicating opposition or resistance

Synonym of antagonize = Mollify = Placate, Pacify, Appease.

I'll keep voting against pay packages that don't include everybody.