Your typical day as a corporate pilot

[sleepy]

Sitting in an FBO reading old Flying magazines. Trying to stay away from the idiot pilot you are on the trip with. Watching the WX chanel in the FBO. Eating free popcorn in the FBO. Wondering when the pax will really be back. Wondering what you will be doing tomorrow.

 

[banned username 2]

Re: That is Charter... not Corporate....

Corporate does not mean Fortune 500, although it sure would be nice!

I agree... BUT you must remember at a lot of these small "Corporate" jobs the plane is actually a "Private Owner" plan that happens to be paid for by the guys company... He puts it on the companies books instead of his own this way he can use it as a tax write off and such... So in an essence, you are flying a private owner for his own use but it "appears" to be for the company....

I don't know many companies that conduct a majority of their work and business travel on the weekend.... That in of itself points to what the real use of this airplane is... no matter what the "guise" of the operation may be...

I agree there are good and bad Corporate jobs out there... not all are a bed of roses.... But any respectable operation will be run by the rules as it should.... and not all passengers are "Pompous assholes" as you make them out to be... We often get invited to events that our execs go to... and are treated as one of the gang....

I will tell you about a story I had happen to me a few years back...

I was in Aspen, CO with the Falcon 50EX and I had our CEO and his wife on board... they were there for a CEO conference... Departure day arrived and the weather was terrible, very low ceiling and visibility with snow showers... The pax arrived and at that time the weather was below the SID takeoff minimums (being a 3 engine aircraft we were able to meet the engine out steep climb gradient requirements)... Well the pax arrived and I told them the weather was too low to take off and we needed to wait a bit... they decided to wait in the plane... In the mean time... we watched about 6-9 twin engine aircraft depart while weather was below the SID minimums.... Included in these aircraft was a Conquest I, a King Air 200, Lear 25 and a Citation I.... None of these could have made the very steep engine out climb gradients that are required for the SID... The CEO's wife came up and asked why these other planes could take off but we couldn't... I looked at her and said "do you what the honest answer?" she said "Yes." I told her those crews were not only illegal they were unsafe and this crew and this department weren't either.... we would leave only when the weather came up to the legally required minimums and when I determined it would be safe. She thanked me for the info and went and sat back down... After an hour and a half of waiting the weather came up to the SID departure mins and we departed... after our arrival at home I apologized to the CEO for the long delay... he interrupted me 1/2 way through my sentence and said "I pay you guys to do what is safe and right, as far as I am concerned, when I am on the airplane, you are the CEO... You make the decisions and let me know what we are doing... No meeting is so important that I will risk the safety of myself, the aircraft or the crew... There is always another day for a meeting, but we all only have one life" He bid me good day and got in his car and left....

Not every guy who rides in back is a ass... a lot is what you let them get away with.... Stand up for what is right and safe and there isn't much they can say... if they fire you it is somewhere you shouldn't be working at anyhow...

 

[Gulfstream 200]

FLIP CONROY

First off....Corporate Operators DON'T fly Lear 25's!!!

Dont mistake corporate flying with rat$**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** charter...ooppss....sorry, "management" operations...
The operation you describe sounds just like my first job - a charter job in a Lear 35...
You cannot even compare real corporate vs charter...

HUGE difference.

Is that what your day is really like?? Does your "Captain" really let the boss tell him to go into strips less than 4000'. Even by the books, its a dumba$$ idea!!!

 

[banned username 2]

At what point did I ever mention a Lear 25 in any of my posts??

Seems you are a bit confused, eh????

I have made the point I intended to make. That there is a wide spectrum of "corporate" operators, and there are far more that fall into the category I described than those at the Fortune companies.

Adios.....all done here.

But you only worked at one operator... How can you then say that there are a lot more like the one you worked at than there are good Corporate jobs?

If you look at it this way... One of the other guys works at a large Fortune 500 operator who employs 65 pilots, I work at a Fortune 500 operator who employs 30 pilots... that is 95 pilots... the operation you describe has 2 pilots (at most).. So just our 2 companies makes up for 47.5 of "your" type of operation... So even though there are less companies, there is still a LOT of jobs... and good ones at that... I highly doubt that only one good operator out of every 47.5 operators exists

 

[Archer]

Falcon, I enjoyed your post about delaying the departure when WX was below SID minimums, and the exchange after the flight with the CEO.

As they say in Top Gun (I think), "Safety First"

Archer

 

[captainv]

*sigh*

C'mon guys, did I say I was speaking for corproate pilots everywhere?

Gulfstream 200: If you read my first post, you might have seen this sentence... "My experience was in private owner flying." I never said what i was doing was corporate. i was explaining the difference. also, private owner flying or charter is something that someone like Archer is more likely to be exposed to first, correct? i would think he would get his experience flying for - how did you put it? - rat-sh*t jobs like my old one before moving on to the big leagues and a real corporate job, like you and Falcon Capt. currently have.

Falcon Capt.: the Lear 25 job was exactly as you (and I) described - a private owner who used it for business and personal travel.

the LR-31 job i mentioned was what i consider to be a corporate airplane, i.e. the worker bees had to put in a request to fly somewhere, and it that was evaluated on a cost/benefit basis by accounting. the president, on the other hand, often used it for his personal travel, for which he was billed by the company. a normal trip on that plane might be a trip to chicago for a business meeting, then to NYC so the president could hang out at his Central Park apartment. he paid for it personally, it helped the company pay off the airplane, but of course it's still more like private owner than what you do.

"Not every guy who rides in back is a ass... a lot is what you let them get away with.... Stand up for what is right and safe and there isn't much they can say... if they fire you it is somewhere you shouldn't be working at anyhow..."

couldn't agree more. my boss on the LR-25 was a great, great guy. treated the pilots like we were family. trusted us to make the decision concerning go/no-go. my only problem with that job was that we didn't fly often enough for me, and since the company was trying to land a big deal, job security was a question if it fell through. that said, if you think i'm going to let an owner put my safety or my license in jeopardy, you're nuts. i'll take an airliner home, thank you.

the only real jack*ss if flew for was the guy on the LR-31. he treated everyone like crap. but that doesn't have any bearing on how I fly. i remember being cleared for takeoff at TEB with a storm sitting right off the end the runway. ATC wouldn't let us deviate from the departure procedure, so we taxied clear and waited. meanwhile, a string of bizjets took off right into the cell. the president demanded to know why we weren't taking off, and the captain explained we would just prefer to wait a few minutes for the storm to pass through our departure route. the president looked at the storm, nodded, and picked up the phone and started chewing out one of his VPs, a favorite pastime. so the guy was rude, so what? it was a great airplane, with lots of great trips. also, the chief pilot on this airplane chose to take, and keep, this job. he could easily trade in those 100-hour months for a cush job on a Falcon 50. he chooses not to, he likes being on the road all the time. i like seeing my wife on occasion, so i was happy to do contract flying for him, but i had no interest in doing it full time. that's why i said to look for a good chief pilot - he decides how things will be run, not the owner....

now, i think maybe Flip Conroy was being a tad sarcastic in a few of his posts, or perhaps he was describing all his bad experiences into one "flight from hell." but then again, maybe not. i hear stories from air ambulance guys in particular that make my skin crawl. in the end, you've got do what you feel comfortable with.

my intention in posting was to contrast the day in the life of Falcon Capt. i seriously doubt Archer is going to have breakfast in Boston and dinner in San Francisco on a big, beautiful Falcon in the forseeable future. he might one day, but only after years of hard work. i was attempting to explain some of the things he might see in the early stages of his journey....

captainv

 

[Gulfstream 200]

my mistake,
the rat$hit job I was refering to was FLip Conroys charter job.
my apologies.

 

[Archer]

Well, those are the things I try to hear about. The types of corpoarate jobs out there.

For those, like me, that don't know much about corp. flying, the difference between charter, corporate or owner operated flying is difficult to see.

All of these are fundamenally different than airline ops, Part 121, as you don't have routine flights set in stone...it's all variable, on-demand...as I hear often...24/7

It seems that you pay for your own flying/share with a friend while getting all your ratings untill you are a CFI/MEI/CFII with some 300 hours. That's where everyone starts off.

Then, it seems, the best way to go is flight instruct. As they say, best way to learn is to teach.

So you do that 10 hours a day, 6/7 days a week, 45+ weeks a year for say pehaps 1 and a half to 3 years, depending on your hours/month.

So you are at 300, you instruct for say 1000 hours, try to get as much of that "golden multi time" as possible...so if you FBO doesn't have multi airplanes...you look for other FBOs...and try to build multi time as an MEI. So you flight instruct for a good while, and all of a sudden you have 1200 TT with 100 multi, all piston.

So at this point in time, you have gained quite a bit of experience in piston airplanes, and you start sending out your first couple of resumes.

You try to get a job with turbine time, either charter, or dropping skydivers...or something. If you get rejected (as it usually seems to happen) you continue on your CFI/MEI/CFII job, trying to get as much TT, multi, instrument, night, x/c time as possible.

When you reach 1500, you get your ATP, and at this point you have say 140 multi pistion time. Now, after say 2+ years as a CFI, you really want to change jobs, and get some charter or freight job of some kind.

You send resumes to the 4 corners of the world...dozens of resumes...the rest is up to luck I guess...

one day you are lucky, and a Part 135 company is looking for a co-pilot in the King Air 200...(typical) so you are all happy and start flying with this cool turbine multi airplane.

So you do that for a GOOD while, building turbine time, say you do this for 200 hours, then you go to FS, get a type rating maybe (if required, I don't know if it is for the King Air) and the charter company makes you captain...so you are extremely happy to be building PIC turbine multi time, though, as it is your first turbine job, you get very low pay...maybe 20K, barely to pay your rent and get groceries.

Well, you still send in resumes left and right, applying for all possible Lear Jet jobs....as it is your childhood dream to fly lears.

Nothing. Lear operators ask for 3000 TT, 2000 PIC, 1000 turbine, 500 jet miniums (these are all guesses) and you are there, with some 1800TT, 300 turbine, 0 jet, 1500 PIC. So no chance at all, you just envy the lear that's in front of you in line getting IFR clearance...as you are in your King...

So you stick to your job, and build even more time, and barely survive with the pay. YOu work long hours, constatly on the call, 24/7...get very tired, never have free time...don't make any money...but you build time...and hang in there...

you are PIC, so that's always good. So as King Air captain, you work for another 200 hours. At a 2000 TT, with 500 hours in the King Air 200, 300 of which PIC, the company decides to be very nice, and upgrades you to King Air 350 Captain...instead of 20K you make 26K now. You do that for another 200 hours.

One day, with 2200 TT, 700 turbine, 1000 multi, 500 turbine PIC, 2000 total PIC, one of the billino resumes you sent responds...

someone hires you to fly SIC of an old ass LR-25. Your minimums are good enough, they offer you 24K, lower than the King job...but it's a jet this time.

So you fly that, as SIC for some 200 hours, this is like your third/fourth year, still making under 30K. You look at some companies you would love to work for, but they have 3000 or 5000 TT requirements...1000 jet time here, 1500 jet time there, 500 PIC jet, blah blah...and you are there with only 200 hours SIC jet...so once again...you settle and build time...

the LR-25 you fly is like 30 years old, falling apart, the management sucks, and the capatain is an arsehole who thinks he's flying a GVSP.

You endure 200 hours with the guy, until the company sends you to FS and you get your first type rating. Lear type...a couple of them, that allows you to fly PIC legally in almost every lear.

At 200 hours SIC lear time, they make you Captain of another LR-25 they have. So finally you get PIC jet time, another 300 of it.

Now you have 2700 TT, 1200 turbine, 500 jet, 1500 multi, 800 turbine PIC, 300 jet PIC, 2300 total PIC, one of the billino resumes you sent responds...

and you get a Lear 35 job, once again, starting as SIC...

well, you do this, and it's your 6th or 7th year....you have been doing these jobs, and all for under 30 or 40 K.

At last on your seventh year...with 5000 TT, 3500 PIC, 4000 turbine, 2500 jet time...you get your first real job.

A company offers you to fly their Lear 45, as SIC, for 60K a year.

The people are nice, the equipment awesome, the places you fly to great, the pay is not miserable, you got benefits, free time etc...

so you don't move from that company, whatever happens. You are there, and you build 400 SIC. They make you captain, and you are so happy that you spend 5 years as Lear 45 captain. Your total time is now 7000. The 2000 hours you spend with the company, are all Lear 45 Jet time, so you have 2000 hours in type, 1600 PIC jet...you are set.

Now, after 5 years, you casually look at other places, just to see what they have to offer...not that you want to leave, your happy with your company...but you are curious.

A lot fo companies offer you jobs, as you got quite a bit of experience now, you are at the top of the food chain...after a good 8/9 years of hard work.

A company offers you 70K, SIC, Lear 60, with promise of upgrade and training at FS. They also have Falcons and Citations and Gulfstreams.

You fly SIC with the Lear 60...they make you captain, you make 100 K a year..

you now have 9000 TT, immense experience in Lear jets, making 100 grand.

You finally decide to go for something different. After 10 years, the comapny sends you to FS, you get your Falcon types...50 and 900...you fly those for a while, and start your international flying...to Europe, and other parts of the world...

at 11000 TT, you get a Gulfstream rating, and you are offered to fly PIC, of the GIV...you get 130K a year....you have nothing more to hope for...you are set...after a good 13/14 years...

meanwhile you look around...and post at the Hangar...and you see low time pilots...with 200 hours asking you for advice on what to do...they want to fly corporate, the GV, and make 100K in 3 years. You tell them it too you 10 more years than that, and that you started in a LR-25 making 24K a year..."with 2200 TT, 700 turbine, 1000 multi, 500 turbine PIC" and they are all amazed...and can't believe you are telling them you gotta wait 10+ years to get where I was...

you tell them to work hard, and be persistent...and all will pay off in the end...

they consider whether they would be better of becoming engineers...and flying on the side....

inside...you laugh, at how life is...

Archer

 

[banned username 2]

Yeah... that pretty much sums it up....

Except I'm glad it didn't take me as long as your imaginary pilot there....

and your Charter pay scale is probably a little on the low side, back in 1994 I was a King Air 100 Captain for $31k/yr and when I left Charter flying back in very early 97 I was making over $50k as a Lear/Falcon 20 Capt.

After a while, flying won't dominate your life, you will have a good job making decent money and your focus will turn to your own life and family... you will get on with life and flying will merely become a good source of income....

Good Luck!

 

[Flywrite]

By George, I think he's got it!

 

[Archer]

Falcon, I thought you never got paid well as a pilot...EVER

Just joking...

All the hours and wages were purely guesses.

The only thing I seem to know is that you need at least 2 years or so as CFI...with some Charter minimums and at least 100 hours multi to do ANYTHING as a pro pilot...

 

[Flywrite]

Archer, why dont you consider being a CFI being a pro pilot?

I know that it generally means long hours and low pay while working towards something else, but believe it or not there are people out there making 30, 40, or even $50,000 instructing. It takes a lot of work, but if you market yourself properly, to the right kind of clintele it is possible to make a living as an instructor.
Sure, if you are one of the 99% of CFIs who just sit around the airport waiting for a semi-interested potential student to walk in the door you're going to be struggling. There are success stories though.
This may be something for you to consider since most of your posts indicate a desire to fly something small, at low altitude. This may be a very rewarding type of flying for you. Plus as a CFI you do a lot more "analyzing" than most "point A to Point B" flying jobs, something you seem to enjoy (not meant as an insult, but an honest suggestion).

 

[bigbird]

My day sounds like FLIPS... All I know is corporate flying is a very boring job. I am in the process of looking for a new career and wont look back at professional flying. Only will I fly for fun.

My typical day....Show up to work about 430am, half asleep. Because who can go to bed at 8pm?? Stock the airplane with food and drinks, ice, coffee, order fuel, and pull out the charts for the day. After I do my chores I sit in the office and wait for the snooty executives to show up. Usually try to watch CNN, because that is the only channel pilots watch.. But I am too tired to focus on the TV because like I said, I only have had about 10 hours sleep in the past 3 days. We are part 91, so our company doesnt give a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** about crew rest. Once the snooty execs show up I walk them to the aircraft, the captain starts up, I close the door. Breifly go over the checklist and go. Normally we put the autopilot on about 2 min after takeoff...Then I just sit there, listen to AM radio on the ADF and chat with ATC here and there.
Once we get to BFE Hooterville. I try to figure out how I am going to kill 7 or eight hours in a town that has a population of 2,000 people.. Eventually, after catching and hour nap on a pleather lazy boy, we try to get a ride to the local diner.. I try to find something halfway healthy on the menu...Some places dont even have oatmeal.. So I usally eat a greasy, nasty breakfast...We get back to the airport...Take a crap...Take another nap....Read...Watch CNN....And daydream about what I should be doing with my life, besides wasting away in some **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**box FBO...Anyway, I am sure there are some wonderful corporate jobs out there. But most I have heard of are like mine.. Very long hours, and you are treated bad by the boss... Plus throw in the unstabiliy of a flying job... I'm sorry I just wouldnt recomend this job to anyone. If you love flying get a good job, one where you can work normal hours, see your wife/ girlfriend, and can rent a C172 on the weekends to enjoy aviation..