You stay classy Linden Hillman

[Ty Webb]

That picture is exactly how imagined you. Big old captain glasses!LOL!

Actually, that's not me, it's "Baghdad Bob" Dylan.

That's my hand, though, taking Bobby D's stapler away from him. . . :laugh:

 

[PapaWoody]

Hate to tell you this, but this has already damaged my career in the short term. Long term is anyones guess. I would be sitting in the left seat bidding over 50% if it weren't for the SWA merger (and yes, my pay would be about the same, or better, as a right seat SWA guy).
Because of the acquisition, you will receive better than an upgrade at AAI, and so will all the F/O's junior to you.

I would retire in the top 10 and get any schedule I want.
And still never reach the level of an airline career that the acquisition by SWA now offers you.

The SWA guys forget that this isn't just about contracts. SWA's contract is much better, but don't forget that SWA is what it is because SWA historically paid much less then its competitors, and that allowed them to grow based off of their cost advantages (sound familier).
And yet SWA always paid better and had a better contract than AAI, for the entire history of AAI. Sound familiar?

The biggest issue Im hearing is with the SWA FO's. However, if this merger leads to you guys gaining a few percentage points seniority wise and speeds your upgrade time, then why are you b!tching?
Actually, every guy in front of the SWA F/Os will delay their upgrade time, thus damaging their prospective career earnings. (for the record, I'm not an F/O)

This is a good thing for you as well if it speeds your upgrade do to huge growth.
Maybe, maybe not. Reference the age 60 farce for how good something is / is not.

Face it, SWA wasn't growing before the AAI purchase (AAI was growing and hiring), and now they are.
SWA went through a temporary growth stoppage in '08 (without furloughing, I might add) due to the economy. Just like AAI, I might add. Your "firm orders", well they weren't so firm were they, since we bought them, along with everything else. You were for sale, we weren't.


This is a great thing for the SWA FO's. The growth potential because of the AAI buyout is HUGE. And don't kid yourselves, SWA wasn't coming into ATL or DCA without the AAI purchase. AAI and DAL locked up ATL with their gate contracts.
Don't kid yourself - this isn't a great thing for the SWA FO's. As it was illustrated to me, it's either going to be a mortal wound or a flesh wound, the difference is TBD. As for us coming into ATL or DCA without you, ask Frontier how that worked out for them in DEN.

Again, not trying to say you don't "bring anything to the table". Just trying to get you guys to acknowledge that this is a win for you, no matter how it works out, and probably a loss for us, no matter how it works out. Only arrogance would prevent that, and ignorance, of course.

Fraternally,
PapaWoody

 

[GuppyWN]

Upshot for SWA FO's is actually getting to upgrade sometime in the future. You had an indefinite hold prior to the AT deal. read my tag line below, your own boss said it. With Airtan out of the way you'll actually get a chance to upgrade. You're welcome.

That's why we had 3 new cities in various stages of opening, 175 jets on order and were signing a side letter for -800's for Hawaii and Alaska.

Don't let the facts interfere with your bantering, though.

Gup

 

[GuppyWN]

They get a growth and seniority advancement that they wouldn't have had otherwise, they get a larger profit sharing check, they get 27hr layovers in the Carribbean and Cancun. BTW, the pilots didn't buy us.

We get "growth and seniority advancement" by buying you? What's your definition of growth?

Larger profit sharing? Airtran had an operational loss in the first quarter alone of $32.7 MILLION with a total loss of $8.5 MILLION.

27 hours in the Caribbean? I prefer to make $209/hr flying instead of $2.45/hr sitting on my ass.

Gup

 

[Ty Webb]

We get "growth and seniority advancement" by buying you? What's your definition of growth?

Larger profit sharing? Airtran had an operational loss in the first quarter alone of $32.7 MILLION with a total loss of $8.5 MILLION.

27 hours in the Caribbean? I prefer to make $209/hr flying instead of $2.45/hr sitting on my ass.

Gup

AirTran makes money in the 2 and 4th quarters, Gup. The first and third are usually losses, due to the predominantly north-south traffic. This was covered pretty extensively in the past. Hopefully, SWA revenue gurus will leverage this into 4 profitable quarters a year.

Don't tell anyone, but during the 27 hour layover, you get paid guarantee, not just per diem.

Now, me, I'd rather be getting paid daily guarantee, snorkeling in the Caribbean, than sitting on the ramp in DCA waiting out a 3 hour ground stop to ATL, but Ty's crazy like that.

 

[SWA/CA]

want us to think we're pawns in this entire process an we should be thankful for whatever we get.

You are and you should be.

During the 27 hour layover, you get paid guarantee, not just per diem. I'd rather be getting paid guarantee snorkeling in the Caribbean than sitting on the ramp in DCA waiting out a 3 hour ground stop to ATL, but Ty's crazy like that.

I'd rather be at home with my Wife and kids.:beer:

 

[Ty Webb]

You are and you should be.



I'd rather be at home with my Wife and kids.:beer:

When we start getting paid for that, let me know . . . . other than vacation, of course.

 

[Ty Webb]

That's why we had 3 new cities in various stages of opening, 175 jets on order and were signing a side letter for -800's for Hawaii and Alaska.

Don't let the facts interfere with your bantering, though.

Gup

Funny, when I brought up the -800's as "growth", your side quickly described them as "-300 and -500 replacements", and said there were no new airframes available for growth.

You guys have to get together and get your stories straight, before you peddle 'em here on F.I.

 

[-9Capt]

You guys crack me up.

If AT was going out of business any time soon SWA would have waited for them to slide into CH11 and buy them for pennies on the dollar, ala ATA. Make that argument to the arbitrator at the same time you tell them how great your contract is. See where that gets you.

 

[-9Capt]

27 hours in the Caribbean? I prefer to make $209/hr flying instead of $2.45/hr sitting on my ass.

Gup

I've been flying a lot of CUN trips out of BWI lately and every time we've had a SWA guy with his family in the back. Every time they tell us they're VERY interested in getting to fly these trips.

Anyway, whatever gents. Like I said, it's going to an arbitration. It will be what it is. Peace out.

 

[-9Capt]

We get "growth and seniority advancement" by buying you? What's your definition of growth?

Larger profit sharing? Airtran had an operational loss in the first quarter alone of $32.7 MILLION with a total loss of $8.5 MILLION.

Gup

Again, I'm going to have to say, ask GK. He loves to talk about it.

 

[canyonblue]

I'm still trying to figure out why so many of the SWA pilots are trying to instill discourse between the AAI pilots and ALPA.

You will find out when you end up at Southwest. If you say the word ALPA, it will come out of your mouth Hitler. I for one have never had a problem with ALPA, but don't mention the word around here, HAMAS has a better reputation.

 

[waveflyer]

This was covered pretty extensively in the past.

Truest statement from any side. It's all been said-- but maybe if we all repeat repeat repeat. Maybe REPEAT louder or with more creative words....

 

[canyonblue]

...read my tag line below, your own boss said it. With Airtan out of the way you'll actually get a chance to upgrade. You're welcome.

Well at least you admit it was Airtran being out of the way the will spur the SWA growth. That tag line gets interpreted incorrectly more time than I can count.

I heard Gary Kelly in person state that Airtran was up against a wall as far as growth, so an acquisition was an easy deal to work out with AT Management. His words not mine.

 

[SWA/CA]

Again, I'm going to have to say, ask GK. He loves to talk about it.

And you guys eat it up.

 

[-9Capt]

Well at least you admit it was Airtran being out of the way the will spur the SWA growth. That tag line gets interpreted incorrectly more time than I can count.

I heard Gary Kelly in person state that Airtran was up against a wall as far as growth, so an acquisition was an easy deal to work out with AT Management. His words not mine.

AirTran has lower costs than SWA. Of course we were in the way of your growth, that was the reason the whole thing happened. You couldnt grow without us. I fail to see your point?

What YOU heard Gary say is irrevelent to an arbitrator.

 

[-9Capt]

And you guys eat it up.

As will an arbitrator.

 

[SWA/CA]

What YOU heard Gary say is irrevelent to an arbitrator.

As will an arbitrator.

Which is it?

Don't shoot yourself in the foot dude. Your union has to negotiate in "good faith". This could go 100 different ways... you know that, right?

 

[PapaWoody]

AirTran has lower costs than SWA. Of course we were in the way of your growth, that was the reason the whole thing happened. You couldnt grow without us. I fail to see your point?

What YOU heard Gary say is irrevelent to an arbitrator.

You have a great avatar. Other than that, you are clueless. Airtran did have "lower costs than SWA"...but then why, in 2010, did we make 15 times the profit than you guys did, even though we're only 4 times as big. Sounds like even with your lower costs, you're still suckin' hind tit.

One thing you guys need to realize...GK would have payed 1.4 billion to make you disappear...poof - there goes a low-cost competitor (albeit one with limited potential in the long run). And although you like to say you "bring lots to the table", the fact is it was all for sale and it was bought. At a bargain to remove your chess pieces from the board. The great news is you probably get a seat at the table, but trust me, an entitlement attitude never has gone over very well at SWA. And arbitrator or no, GK does have the final say in how this all takes place. And employees that want to be here and are thankful for the opportunity are much more conducive to harmony than the "I gots to get mine cuz the lawman does says I should" banter. Negotiate in good faith with realistic expectations and you will be fine. Negotiate from a "gonna have my cake and eat it too" position and good luck.

Fraternally,
PW

 

[RLAblows]

Geez! This is still going on? What are you guys trying to accomplish? Are you solving our SLI? Who needs the MC's when we have you guys working on it more then them? Keep second guessing GK's decision? Is that part of your culture? Move on. We have a bright future and we need to focus on that.