Yet another USAPA lawsuit

[Crzipilot]

Fr8, never have said the company can't negotiation, they damn well can, and should......it's simply a stall tactic, Hmmmmm.....what can be done to entice them to negotiate that 99%, think if we rent one of those budweiser trucks that hold the kegs, and have taps on the side, and park it outside Tempe Frat house, that might help?

Seems to be that our top two guys like the sauce a little too much, getting a little older and can't handle it like in their frat days....

 

[becket]

The company is full of it, and some of you buy it hook line and sinker.

Do you really believe the company cant negotiate a contract because of a list?

Even if that were true, they could negotiate the other 99% of the contract. You need to put aside your hate for a freakin minute and realize, that with the exception of that 1% of the contract we are all on the same page.

After we get the 99% done you can go back to your hate and scream how you are the "good kids" to your hearts content. Meanwhile the company is doing nothing, but letting this carry on until the end of time.

We will never agree on a list, but we should at least agree that the Kirby is a POS! You do understand there is much more to a contract than an hourly rate don't you?

If you don't want any progress on a contract for whatever reason that's fine. But don't post on these boards that you really believe that the company can't negotiate a show time, how many hours we get paid for a cancellation, or how much a check airmen should be paid to fill in a line trip because of a list.

seniority touches virtually all contractual sections. You are the myopic Kool aid drinker.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Why should the company waste their time negotiating a contract that stands on shaky legal ground? AOL will claim that the Addington is now ripe and a judge will grant an injunction blocking implementation of the contract for another couple years while the case works its way through the court system.

I understand why the east pilots feel they can use their majority to force their will on the west, but they fail to understand the unique nature of a first joint contract following a merger. Subsequent contracts will not have TAs to follow, nor will they have to account for 2 sides entering into binding arbitration. But now they do.

The bigger question is: why are the pilots continuing to support an irrelevant union ? Why not replace it with one that commits to not taking one side over another and is founded on unity so that it can be effective?

 

[charlie2]

Why should the company waste their time negotiating a contract that stands on shaky legal ground? AOL will claim that the Addington is now ripe and a judge will grant an injunction blocking implementation of the contract for another couple years while the case works its way through the court system.

I understand why the east pilots feel they can use their majority to force their will on the west, but they fail to understand the unique nature of a first joint contract following a merger. Subsequent contracts will not have TAs to follow, nor will they have to account for 2 sides entering into binding arbitration. But now they do.

The bigger question is: why are the pilots continuing to support an irrelevant union ? Why not replace it with one that commits to not taking one side over another and is founded on unity so that it can be effective?

Are you saying AOL would request an injunction on the whole contract and not just section 22? These guys would ask a judge to put a stop to the new pay rates for a couple years? I doubt it.

 

[vetrider]

Just like United's and American's management teams, US Airways doesn't want to negotiate and we understand why...just like the ALPA and APA pilots understand it. But if management stops obeying the RLA i.e. in "status quo" they are still required to process grievences, you don't think the pilots should call them on it (or at least try)? Our management has threatened legal action against us if we pilots don't comply with status quo so fair is fair.

That's all true, no argument here. All I'm saying is Cleary and his little club are impotent.

 

[Raoul Duke]

West guys should undermine grievances filed by the east by testifying against USAPA

 

[charlie2]

West guys should undermine grievances filed by the east by testifying against USAPA

Good plan...that will definitley work....you mam are a genious!

 

[charlie2]

Good plan...that will definitley work....you mam are a genious!

And then mam we'll undermine the west grievences and we'l all be GENIOUSES!!!! BWAAAHAAHAAHAA!!!!!!

 

[TWA Dude]

And then mam we'll undermine the west grievences and we'l all be GENIOUSES!!

the Grievance Granny Parella is already on top of that plan.

 

[charlie2]

the Grievance Granny Parella is already on top of that plan.

.ok ya got me there,,,,doh!

 

[Crzipilot]

I'm sure your insinuiating the distance learning arbitration etc... on that comment. Don't know the story, but watching the crew news, with a few comments of certain witnesses backing out, and etc...... It seems that the west looked at what was agreed upon and after the fact said whooooaaaa...why couldn't we do it this way. Kinda johnny come lately on that one. I could actually kinda see parkers perplexion as to what the issue was. The screams to talk to the PHX reps, well I'm pretty positive that's not the protocol used in settling the grievances and arbitrations. I.E. it any grievance goes through the grievance committee. either be involved with it or be without.

Hencey, just because your west, does not mean that the phx reps handle everything west, a lot more liability and other things that have to be adhered to for the PHX reps to become their own little union inside a union. Parker understood it, he didn't understand why the west pilots didn't.

It may or may not have been intentional but it seems as though what you guys were trying to imply was, any issues with west contract or west issues, simply go through west reps and we'll take care of it, don't worry about USAPA. the problem I guess is Parker knows it's not small AWA that he has to deal with, it's the whole structure..


Bringupthebird.

You see there might be many people willing to negotiate something in the middle, but you see. the west has screamed loud and clear they will accept the nic and NOTHING else. Meanwhile in defense the east says fine. DOH. West says you can't go off the nic 'cause there is no one on west to negotiate away from that because of the single carrier status.
I say BS to the 10th degree. If the people in charge of AOL or whatever it was, were to write down some conditions and restrictions and pass it across. in which there was a rebuttal to that, and so forth, eventually there might be a middle ground and AOL would not file lawsuit. so no dfr, and things would move one.

BUT THE WEST HAS CLEARLY STATED IT'S NIC OR NOTHING.

 

[Raoul Duke]

Isn't time on the west pilot's side? How long is the east willing to work under LOA 93 and how many senior east guys will retire before anything changes. My guess is the west has all the leverage on the long term outcome of this whole mess.

 

[Crzipilot]

The east is willing for as long as the little movement continues. RSV going to blocks, f/o's to capt, new hires off the street. It's small right now, but it could be simply the pebble gathering steam, turning into a great big boulder barreling down the mountain slope.
Mgment is in unchartered waters, and actually has to manage the staffing, faced with variables they have never faced before. The biggest one being, when confronted with adhearing to the robotic desire of management, some pilots say screw it, hand over their badge and walk away......

Movement is over east...and could start to be more than what it is now. At the same time, it could halt at the end of summer. we will see

 

[Turtle21]

..

Either way, how is the company going to prove, that by accepting the nic they will be subject to a work stoppage, ....

The 9th made it clear that the Nic is a bargaining position (but is not the court directed position) and directed the company and USAPA to bargain. If the company takes the bargaining position that they will only accept Nic, then the company and USAPA are at in impasse which of course then could end up in a legal work stoppage.

In other words, the company can't just accept the Nic, the company has to take a bargaining position.

 

[TWA Dude]

Don't know the story, but watching the crew news, with a few comments of certain witnesses backing out, and etc......

You're right, you don't know the story. Our man (former MEC Vice Chair Vasin) was working with the grievance committee on the DL as well as the TA10 issues. About two months ago he informed us (on the private AWAPPA message board where AWA pilots confer) that he'd withdrawn from participation because Parella was working against our interests and ignoring the input of West subject matter experts. He also correctly predicted that she'd try to pawn the blame on him.

It may or may not have been intentional but it seems as though what you guys were trying to imply was, any issues with west contract or west issues, simply go through west reps and we'll take care of it, don't worry about USAPA. the problem I guess is Parker knows it's not small AWA that he has to deal with, it's the whole structure..

Not exactly. What we needed Parker to know was that it was unacceptable for him to deal with USAPA on West-specific issues without even talking to any West pilots. Everybody knows USAPA lost a DFR trial so if they had any integrity whatsoever they'd be going out of their way to appease the West. Instead, they just add more fodder to legal battle.

If the people in charge of AOL or whatever it was, were to write down some conditions and restrictions and pass it across. in which there was a rebuttal to that, and so forth, eventually there might be a middle ground and AOL would not file lawsuit. so no dfr, and things would move one.

You still don't get it. AOL's sole purpose is the legal fight to protect what the West is entitled to. They aren't a bargaining agent. There's only one legal bargaining agent for the West and that's USAPA. Even our West reps can't negotiate for us because the BPR will simply outvote them on anything acceptable to the West. With ALPA gone there's no more negotiating!

BUT THE WEST HAS CLEARLY STATED IT'S NIC OR NOTHING.

Finally, you do understand something correctly. See you in Judge Silver's court.