Yet another USAPA lawsuit

[FDJ2]

From Judge Silver's order:

"The East Pilots–who would benefit much more from a strict “date of hire” seniority rule–were dissatisfied with the Nicolau Award. The East Pilots formed a new labor union known as USAPA. The USAPA constitution mandates seniority be determined by “date of hire.” The East Pilots significantly outnumber the West Pilots and when put to a vote by all the pilots, USAPA was certified as the labor union for both the East and West Pilots."

Any Eastie feeling confident about outcome of this suit?

Got a link to the decision?

 

[Turtle21]

It was an east guy who was taking upskirt photos of an underage girl at the airport Turtle.

You'ld have a point if any East guys were having emotional meltdowns at a crew news defending the guy.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Tell me again why a junior f/o on the east side would want to merge and get a new contract??? To play F/O the rest of his career?? NO contract will make up the money he would lose in that scenario.

Has Cleary been telling you scary bedtime stories again? That sort of fear mongering is exactly what has kept ALL US pilots from moving forward with pay and benefit improvements.

If you would look at the Nicolau list you would see that junior F/O's would have less than a handful of additional pilots between them and their upgrade under Nic than DOH. The furloughed F/O's are enduring the consequences of their juniority, that's all. Even they are not in as dire circumstances as you would like them to believe. Really, sit down with the list an a competent pilot to explain it to you and you will see that USAPA has stoked the east simply to cement their power base and nothing else.

The west is forced to pay dues to a union that has chosen to take sides in the seniority fight. USAPA cannot take sides, it has to do what is in the best interests of ALL the pilots. Failure to do that is called a DFR suit, something I'm sure you are familiar with.

Base your strategy on what is the most likely course of events: west pilots stay put until they upgrade in PHX on Airbus equipment. Basing it on wild phantom fears gets you nowhere, but makes Cleary and Seham wealthy men.

 

[Bringupthebird]

You'ld have a point if any East guys were having emotional meltdowns at a crew news defending the guy.

Yeah, that's funny. The east makes BK wages and gladly sends their money to a union that has no lack of ways to waste it, yet there is no outrage.

Has Cleary found a way to slip extacy in to the coffee out there or something. Eventually you guys will wake up, find your undies and flag a cab down for home.

 

[TWA Dude]

Got a link to the decision?

It's up on www.cactuspilot.com now

 

[Crzipilot]

Same line from the west pilots. Why don't you stop threatning your lawsuits, and we can get on with it....

 

[TWA Dude]

What threats?

 

[Crzipilot]

Interestingly enough, the two requirements the judge said that had to be met, and or in this instance, favored in the companies favor unless proven otherwise against a very high bar. The one instance was the fear of a work stoppage. Now, I may be wrong, but the simple act of the company accepting the NIC does not give USAPA the right to strike.... Unless I missed something in the RLA, there are some federal laws which protect the company from such a measure. So uhmmmm....did she maybe not understand RLA?

 

[FR8mastr]

The company is full of it, and some of you buy it hook line and sinker.

Do you really believe the company cant negotiate a contract because of a list?

Even if that were true, they could negotiate the other 99% of the contract. You need to put aside your hate for a freakin minute and realize, that with the exception of that 1% of the contract we are all on the same page.

After we get the 99% done you can go back to your hate and scream how you are the "good kids" to your hearts content. Meanwhile the company is doing nothing, but letting this carry on until the end of time.

We will never agree on a list, but we should at least agree that the Kirby is a POS! You do understand there is much more to a contract than an hourly rate don't you?

If you don't want any progress on a contract for whatever reason that's fine. But don't post on these boards that you really believe that the company can't negotiate a show time, how many hours we get paid for a cancellation, or how much a check airmen should be paid to fill in a line trip because of a list.

 

[Crzipilot]

Therefore, the Court must accept the allegations in the complaint and draw all reasonable inferences in US Airways’ favor.

This little statement here, I guess shows that, this hearing, the judge must take the allegations, and assume they are all in US Airways favor in her decision to dismiss. I would imagine that's a tough little hurdle to get over.

Anyways, as it says, she looks at the allegations, and says...ok they are all in US favor, (without actual hearings on the allegations and whether they will actually stand at the actual hearing) So when the hearing actually comes about, then she will actually hear the arguments on both sides and decide from there...........which with the back log talked about, should be in 1-2 years?

Either way, how is the company going to prove, that by accepting the nic they will be subject to a work stoppage, when such work stoppage in technically illegal via federal laws, and such can be very detrimental to the east pilots and USAPA. Now if they were released by NMB, that's a different story, but again that's a different situation.

I guess all this is, is the judge saying, Ok, there might be something of merit, here, I'm not going to dismiss, and lets take this to trial. Looks like one of her choke points might be her reference to Addision (a dismissed suit) in some of her reasoning in the ripeness of the companies request.......

Not a lawyer, so who knows...

 

[Crzipilot]

Fr8, never have said the company can't negotiation, they damn well can, and should......it's simply a stall tactic, Hmmmmm.....what can be done to entice them to negotiate that 99%, think if we rent one of those budweiser trucks that hold the kegs, and have taps on the side, and park it outside Tempe Frat house, that might help?

Seems to be that our top two guys like the sauce a little too much, getting a little older and can't handle it like in their frat days....

 

[becket]

The company is full of it, and some of you buy it hook line and sinker.

Do you really believe the company cant negotiate a contract because of a list?

Even if that were true, they could negotiate the other 99% of the contract. You need to put aside your hate for a freakin minute and realize, that with the exception of that 1% of the contract we are all on the same page.

After we get the 99% done you can go back to your hate and scream how you are the "good kids" to your hearts content. Meanwhile the company is doing nothing, but letting this carry on until the end of time.

We will never agree on a list, but we should at least agree that the Kirby is a POS! You do understand there is much more to a contract than an hourly rate don't you?

If you don't want any progress on a contract for whatever reason that's fine. But don't post on these boards that you really believe that the company can't negotiate a show time, how many hours we get paid for a cancellation, or how much a check airmen should be paid to fill in a line trip because of a list.

seniority touches virtually all contractual sections. You are the myopic Kool aid drinker.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Why should the company waste their time negotiating a contract that stands on shaky legal ground? AOL will claim that the Addington is now ripe and a judge will grant an injunction blocking implementation of the contract for another couple years while the case works its way through the court system.

I understand why the east pilots feel they can use their majority to force their will on the west, but they fail to understand the unique nature of a first joint contract following a merger. Subsequent contracts will not have TAs to follow, nor will they have to account for 2 sides entering into binding arbitration. But now they do.

The bigger question is: why are the pilots continuing to support an irrelevant union ? Why not replace it with one that commits to not taking one side over another and is founded on unity so that it can be effective?

 

[charlie2]

Why should the company waste their time negotiating a contract that stands on shaky legal ground? AOL will claim that the Addington is now ripe and a judge will grant an injunction blocking implementation of the contract for another couple years while the case works its way through the court system.

I understand why the east pilots feel they can use their majority to force their will on the west, but they fail to understand the unique nature of a first joint contract following a merger. Subsequent contracts will not have TAs to follow, nor will they have to account for 2 sides entering into binding arbitration. But now they do.

The bigger question is: why are the pilots continuing to support an irrelevant union ? Why not replace it with one that commits to not taking one side over another and is founded on unity so that it can be effective?

Are you saying AOL would request an injunction on the whole contract and not just section 22? These guys would ask a judge to put a stop to the new pay rates for a couple years? I doubt it.

 

[vetrider]

Just like United's and American's management teams, US Airways doesn't want to negotiate and we understand why...just like the ALPA and APA pilots understand it. But if management stops obeying the RLA i.e. in "status quo" they are still required to process grievences, you don't think the pilots should call them on it (or at least try)? Our management has threatened legal action against us if we pilots don't comply with status quo so fair is fair.

That's all true, no argument here. All I'm saying is Cleary and his little club are impotent.

 

[Raoul Duke]

West guys should undermine grievances filed by the east by testifying against USAPA

 

[charlie2]

West guys should undermine grievances filed by the east by testifying against USAPA

Good plan...that will definitley work....you mam are a genious!

 

[charlie2]

Good plan...that will definitley work....you mam are a genious!

And then mam we'll undermine the west grievences and we'l all be GENIOUSES!!!! BWAAAHAAHAAHAA!!!!!!

 

[TWA Dude]

And then mam we'll undermine the west grievences and we'l all be GENIOUSES!!

the Grievance Granny Parella is already on top of that plan.

 

[charlie2]

the Grievance Granny Parella is already on top of that plan.

.ok ya got me there,,,,doh!