Yet another interesting article about DL/NWA, and others...

[General Lee]

Valid point in theory, BUT...how do we factor in the fact that it would be DAL scope that allowed the parking while not shrinking the airline? We announced this week that we are parking an additional 10 DC-9's. This will result in a loss of 30 DC-9 CA positions, but we are adding 10 CA positions each to the 757 and 320 at the same time, for a net loss of 10 CA positions.

How are you adding those postion's again? Are you adding extra planes? We actually are. We don't have a net loss. Even with the potential parking of 15 MD88s or some 757s, we are getting more 777s (19 crew per plane--that is 19 777 Captains per plane---6 planes in 3 months to start with), plus 737-700s, plus potential MD90s down the road. Your 787s will take years to get, and Boeing hasn't started flying one yet.

The big worry here is what will happen IMMEDIATELY with those DC9s. Our scope clause did allow 3 76 seaters per new airplane, but we just dumped 35 Freedom Air 50 seaters, and more to come. Didn't Mesaba just get 12 50 seaters, and how many CR9s are they getting, along with Compass E175s?

We are dumping some mainline planes, but more 50 seaters than anything else. That is good. IF we merge and then dump all of the DC9s within a year or so, then who should take the brunt of that if there is a furlough? What would be FAIR?


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

I agree it is what you bring to the table. Delta can't trump NWA in the flying museum department but Delta also has a bunch of jets that will need to be replaced as well within the next ten years if not sooner. Bottom line, I think we could beat each up of who has orders for what and who does not but at the end of day the two airlines are a pretty decent fit and could provide some long term security for both pilot groups.

I think that would be nice. The problem right now is that the "no furlough" clause that we supposedly had in the bag during the last offer, may not be there now. And, right now airlines are dumping planes that are not profitable or burn too much gas. So, what should we do SHORT term if something happens? Who should get the temporary pink slip? That is the key. If we merge, I hope we are all flying for the most stable company in the Universe. Right now though, times aren't great.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Look....a pissing contest is a waste of time when 4 airlines have gone TU in what, a week? I'm not making this stuff up....it's in the 10-K SEC filings. I'm sure FDJ2 is more credible than a CBS marketwatch internet reporter, but I'll still go by the SEC numbers, that our CFOs signed ,over his.

Hey, I agree. This is just a pissing contest. You have to understand that there is a lot of unrest over here, and knowing that some of your DC9s could get chopped again makes some people nervous. If we merge, let's hope it doesn't turn out that way.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[DTW320]

How are you adding those postion's again? Are you adding extra planes?

Reducing monthly max's in those positions.

Your 787s will take years to get, and Boeing hasn't started flying one yet.

The program has been delayed a year. We are the launch N. American customer. This is an old peg you try to hang your non-optional hat on. You'd like us all to believe that Boeing is about to scrub the whole thing. Our 330's/400's will do fine in the meantime.

The big worry here is what will happen IMMEDIATELY with those DC9s. Our scope clause did allow 3 76 seaters per new airplane, but we just dumped 35 Freedom Air 50 seaters, and more to come. Didn't Mesaba just get 12 50 seaters, and how many CR9s are they getting, along with Compass E175s?

What does one have to do with the other? You can dump all your 50 seaters but the 3 76seaters, above the 30 allowed in 2008, per new mainline a/c still remains. We have a narrowbody floor that requires parking 76 seaters if mainline a/c are parked. If we merge and then DAL decides to park the DC-9's they can do so without affecting the 76 seaters.

We are dumping some mainline planes, but more 50 seaters than anything else. That is good. IF we merge and then dump all of the DC9s within a year or so, then who should take the brunt of that if there is a furlough? What would be FAIR?

Well, if there are furloughs then your scope requires all 76 seaters to become 70 seaters, but DAL can still have 200 of them. It's not fair to furlough DAL pilots that obviously weren't on the -9, but it's also not fair to furlough NWA pilots who fly the -9 when your scope clause, ie 200 70 seaters, makes the parking possible without hurting the network. Obviously, who gets furloughed will be a function of the SLI, however that gets settled, but it is an example of how not everything about the DAL contract is rosy to NWA pilots.

 

[General Lee]

Reducing monthly max's in those positions.
The program has been delayed a year. We are the launch N. American customer. This is an old peg you try to hang your non-optional hat on. You'd like us all to believe that Boeing is about to scrub the whole thing. Our 330's/400's will do fine in the meantime.
What does one have to do with the other? You can dump all your 50 seaters but the 3 76seaters, above the 30 allowed in 2008, per new mainline a/c still remains. We have a narrowbody floor that requires parking 76 seaters if mainline a/c are parked. If we merge and then DAL decides to park the DC-9's they can do so without affecting the 76 seaters.
Well, if there are furloughs then your scope requires all 76 seaters to become 70 seaters, but DAL can still have 200 of them. It's not fair to furlough DAL pilots that obviously weren't on the -9, but it's also not fair to furlough NWA pilots who fly the -9 when your scope clause, ie 200 70 seaters, makes the parking possible without hurting the network. Obviously, who gets furloughed will be a function of the SLI, however that gets settled, but it is an example of how not everything about the DAL contract is rosy to NWA pilots.

Sure, that is one area that we could have improved on. At the same time, our 50 seaters are leaving the fleet by the dozens. We have some outstanding 76 seaters on order, and some 70s too, but the overall RJ fleet is shrinking, which can only be a good thing.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[cessnapilot]

um, what in the world are you talking about? Delta seems to be doing just fine acquiring 777-200LRs and 737-700s on their own.

"Dwindling cash reserves will eventually bring credit downgrades, making it harder and more costly for airlines to buy the newer, more fuel efficient aircraft that would bring down their fuel and maintenance costs. Already the major carriers have poor credit ratings. That would give the merged airline access to more capital for expansion at less cost and give it the flexibility to park more of its older, more expensive aircraft to reduce capacity and firm up airfares."

things are a little different than when DL ordered the planes.

 

[JAM-BRO]

The big reason our MX costs have gone up has little to do with the age of our DC9 fleet and more with outsourcing. Our EMT screwed up AGAIN and their plan of outsourcing to reduce costs failed badly. I think they knew that it would increase costs, but the real end was to get rid of AMFA. Management probably saw AMFA as an obstruction to an easy merge... My .02¢...

Are you kidding me? Those old 767s were the 767-200s, and they are all at ABX now. Our 767-300ERs are fairly new, and our MD88s are a heck of a lot newer than your DC9s, and AA's MD80s. (they still have them flying). Our MD90s are even newer.

Why would this article suggest that your planes are old? Why do they cost so much money for upkeep? Read it again. You have less planes than Delta, but spend more money on MX----that is a fact. Your domestic fleet is not flexible and that is another reason Steenland is looking for help.


"Northwest, whose fleet's average age is 20 years, has one of the oldest fleets in the industry and spends almost 7% of its operating revenue on maintenance, materials and repairs."


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FBN0223]

The most welcoming fact about a potential NWA Delta merger is that the NWA EMT will no longer exist. Steenland and Cohen strengths lie solely in being hatchet men and collecting on employee sacrifices. Neither really has the enthusiasm in running an airline and Richard would be a welcome change.

 

[wings421]

We are getting 6 (count them again-6) new 777LRs in 3 months time (Dec 31st--March31st)---which have the same range but carry more PAX and Cargo than a 787, a plane that has STILL YET to fly. And, Anderson just made a pact with Boeing for more of them.

Has there been an announcement for that or is that just a rumor?

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Has there been an announcement for that or is that just a rumor?

I think it's called a "pinky swear" over there. They then both saw a VW, called out "lovebug" AT THE SAME TIME, and then Boeing punched Anderson in the arm and yelled ... "JINX! You owe me a coke."

Anderson was overhead saying, "You ain't-a getting no coke."