XJT Captain Downgrade Article in NYT

[Dornier 335]

I hate to say this, but usually big motorcycles & your wife don't mix. It's like kicking your feet up in front of the TV and she's telling that you're not doing anything.

Why should I feel for his self-inflicted financial misery?

How's the old airline pilot saying go? Something like "As your career progresses, keep your F/E wife, F/O house, and keep the CA money in the bank." Something like that... Anyway, I always thought it was pretty good advice.

That should be part of your upgrade indoc.

DoJetDriver question for you. Is the DoJet a different type than the Do prop?

 

[WMUSIGPI]

I guess the real lesson is that he upgraded too fast, realistic upgrades don't happen in year two of your airline career. Long before the regionals it was sometimes the case that a new pilot at a major would sit sideways for a decade before even getting as spot as an FO and then Capt. Now, we just have join a regional, (the cheaper the better) and get your PIC logged in two years.

The difference is those F/E's were paid a livable wage. Today's "regional" FO's are not.

 

[Max Powers]

Other than pilots being underpaid; this article should be a lesson to every FO out there. When it comes time to upgrade, it doesn't mean you need to rush out and get a bigger house, and a Harley Davidson. If you managed to live on your salary + your wife's salary as an FO, then you don't need to increase your quality of life too much.

I'm not saying don't upgrade your quality of life a little by buying this or that. Just don't buy stuff (like a house) that you couldn't otherwise afford as an FO. Save most of the extra money! The next rainy day in this industry is probably right around the corner.

No surprise that many of the comments missed the point of what is wrong. Instead these Rush Limbaugh loving pilots blame the poor bloke who has dedicated his life to a challenging career which only a few can do and in return gets a steaming pile of crap for pay. RLA needs to be fixed and we need to be able to strike and have more strength in negotiating our pay. The guy has 4 kids and yes, he bought a Harley - I hardly think he is living extravagantly.

 

[Hawker dude]

TOGA to "10" RULES

 

[dojetdriver]

TOGA to "10" RULES

It's funny, toga 2 ten would only go about 2 to 2 1/2 minutes into a 5 minute limit on the engines on the 328.

In the EMB, you'd burn up the engines trying to get to 10K in TO RSV.

 

[Captainzero1]

I am a bit confused, he downgraded from capt to f/o and is only making $34K after all his years. Air Whiskey and Piedmont pay there fo's as much or more than that with less years on the job. What am I missing. I was always told expressjet had industry leading contract.

 

[dojetdriver]

I am a bit confused, he downgraded from capt to f/o and is only making $34K after all his years. Air Whiskey and Piedmont pay there fo's as much or more than that with less years on the job. What am I missing. I was always told expressjet had industry leading contract.

AGAIN, I'll repeat it. The "journalist" took so much freedom from face to face interviews, the phone interviews, and the emails to write the story as he saw fit.

The areas that BL tried to emphasize to the "journalist" got ignored, mainly the crappy pay and general decline of the profession.

Even at XJT, a 5th year CA couldn't do 100k a year as the article indicates. Unless he was a LCA, doing OE for 100 hours a month, EVERY month. The figures that BL gave the "journalist" were both best case and worst case.

You have to understand, this is an article in the N.Y. Times.

 

[dojetdriver]

DoJetDriver question for you. Is the DoJet a different type than the Do prop?

Yep,

DO-328
DO-328JET

 

[BushwickBill]

Awwwww dude, since you put it that way, I'm sorry to come off crass to you. As far as what really happened vs. what the guy wrote in the article, they are different. Unfortunately, the guy in the article has to go on a "clarification tour" of the various message boards to clear it up. As far as BL goes, he's a selfless stand up guy that goes to great lengths to help out our pilots as an MEC volunteer. Often times, banging his head up against a wall with management. Just like all the awesome guys we had representing us in LGA, BOS, and LGA.

BL is a friend of mine. Short version, BL is commuting home, has minimal time to make the commute (NOT DEADHEAD), knows the CA flying the flight. Calls him, requests that he not push early, but DO NOT CAUSE A DELAY for him. CA, obliges, flight pushes 1 minute prior to scheduled go time, and all is good in the universe. That is, till a bunghole "journalist" gets a hold of the story and takes it upon himself to fuk it up.

If you were a CA on the 328, good chance I flew with you. On it from 7/2000 till we flew em down to Myrtle Beach in 2004. A moment of silence for the 328, please.

Number 1 in IAD for July/August 2002, number 2 in BOS from Sept. 2002 till June 2004, number 2 in CVG from July 2004 till the end. Can't remember what I was in LGA, left at the end of June 2002. If I ever jacked a line from you wanted, sorry about that. I usually tried to call the guys bidding below me since we were such a tight group on the that airplane to see if they wanted a specific line if they had something going on, spend more time with their kids, etc do that I wouldn't bid it and free it up for them. Most lines on the plane kinda sucked anyway.

TOGA2TEN, bytches!!!!! Still got a sticker on my roller bag. Viva the Dojet.




Cliff, I KNOW you're on that "other board", so take a look at the thread and read the response from the person the article is about. I could say all sorts of condescending things about your situation and tell you that I have no sympathy for you, or what your "CEO" is dealing with since you make it so public, you're a good guy, but I won't. So do yourself a favor, and read the thread on the other place.

What other place? Pm me.

 

[Dan Roman]

A real good place to start would be tying FO pay to 60% of CA pay.

Who has even that these days, AWAC & ASA?

You are on to something there. That would do as much as any "minimum time requirements" that congress is considering.

 

[dojetdriver]

A real good place to start would be tying FO pay to 60% of CA pay.

Who has even that these days, AWAC & ASA?

XJT is close, mostly in the 57-58% range.

You are on to something there. That would do as much as any "minimum time requirements" that congress is considering.

Especially for first year FO's. But if it was enough for the "regionals", why not make it that way at the legacies as well?

To clarify, make the the first year FO pay for ALL fleet types, 60% of the first year CA pay of the lowest paying type at the legacy.

To use an example, using the DAL pay rates, take 60% of the year 1 DC-9 CA rate, roughly $80/hr. At the "regionals", that concept really wouldn't work, especially with mixed prop/jet fleets.

 

[Dan Roman]

AGAIN, I'll repeat it. The "journalist" took so much freedom from face to face interviews, the phone interviews, and the emails to write the story as he saw fit.

The areas that BL tried to emphasize to the "journalist" got ignored, mainly the crappy pay and general decline of the profession.

Even at XJT, a 5th year CA couldn't do 100k a year as the article indicates. Unless he was a LCA, doing OE for 100 hours a month, EVERY month. The figures that BL gave the "journalist" were both best case and worst case.

You have to understand, this is an article in the N.Y. Times.

Every "news" story I've ever read that I happened to have first hand knowledge about was amazingly inaccurate. Now we have Fox News and people like Glen Beck taking inaccurate (Actually Beck is a flat out liar) to new levels.

 

[Dan Roman]

XJT is close, mostly in the 57-58% range.



Especially for first year FO's. But if it was enough for the "regionals", why not make it that way at the legacies as well?

I thought it was. Mine is about 65%

 

[dojetdriver]

I thought it was. Mine is about 65%

Read what I wrote, was your year one pay rate at where ever you are 60% of the year 1 CA pay rate?

 

[QOL_is_great:)]

Am I the only one who has a problem with this? Delay a flight to make a commute and possibly cause the paying passengers to miss their connection? Professionalism at it's finest.

I read that line and wondered why he would even mention that to a reporter. I had a problem with it too. What about the long, overnight commute he made eastcoast to westcoast. Didn't an FO recently do that and it hit the national spotlight only after a unnecessary crash? Maybe the downgrade saved his life? Maybe the coin spent on the Harley could have been spent on a place to receive proper rest and avoid those FedEx sleepovers.
But he did mentioned a few times about being a captain or in command and the power that comes with it. Geez, you want power then be a police officer. I don't remember him mentioning the word responsibility which being the captain is all about.
I don't feel sorry for him since he is an educated person, does know the difference in pay scales and buying items like a ring and Harley. Post 9-11 in an industry that's very unstable and not being ready to cut-backs when the writing is on the wall if foolish. I find it hard to believe they can't muster up a family budget on both their incomes ($70ish). He should be lucky his wife is working and in a respectable career field. I wish my wife could find a job as a teacher. She has a Master's in Education and NO jobs in our area. Teachers are not retiring due to the economy and bad timing for her. She is now looking for work in other fields and it's tough. Newflash for him; it's tough for everyone and he is crying to the wrong group.
Plus, he lets the NYT write an article about this; :bawling:. That is a crap print paper that doesn't understand responsible news gathering and coverage.