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WWYD NetJets or Delta?

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Pat Fabian - WTF? Your post is tirate, yet your second has good info in it, and your third was about half and half. If you don't like a subject matter, then skip those posts. As for making a decision, I am simply looking for all the facts as well as opinions. I want to know if I may have overlooked something or looked at something incorrectly. My math shows more money at NJA in the long run doing the bare mins and working in the least paying aircraft. Others seem to think DAL will generate greater wealth. That is the type of info I am looking for.

Altscap,
Bad news dude. I know no one at Delta or NetJets. I applied the first week the app window went open. I know people at CAL and that has not gotten me an interview. I have all the requirements for UPS and have not gotten an interview. Stuff happens that is unexplainable. Good luck.

To those that have contributed their opinions and facts, thank you. Neither one of these worlds is quite like the flying in the military (big but not shiny jets) and I am ignorant to both Fracs and 121. I appreciate the insiders info.
 
gunfyter said:
I'd like to see that math.
Click to expand...


I think Pepper's math takes into account 3.2 furloughs, an ALPA seniority integration based on anything BUT seniority and 3 divorces to make it to the "widebody captain's club". ;)

It's like the old Tortise and the Hare story or a Peppy LePeu cartoon.
 
US Flyer said:
I've been at the regionals for over seven years and thought about going to fractionals in the past. I don't know how old you are but let's assume you are in your early thirties....

I personally would go to DAL- you could always STILL go to Netjets in the future if there is another 9/11 type disaster that gets you furloughed at a major. Commuting as a part 121 guy/gal is at least doable and allows you to live almost anywhere. I'm not sure I would try and commute at all (or even how to go about doing it) as a fractional pilot.

Plus, if you get fed up with part 121 flying in your early fifties (assuming the age 60 rule stays the same) then you could still go to NJA and get a good 15 plus years out of it. You would have been able to see both worlds that way if you so desired.

I personally don't think you could easily go to NJA for the next 15 years and then try and switch to an airline. No one would take you seriously in the interview.

Lastly, DAL has probably the BEST travel benefits of any major airline. You and your family can see the world if you want for free if you go at an off-peak time. I guess you could do this to a certain extent with skymiles (generated as a passenger getting to flights for the fractional), but you couldn't do it as often as you could at a major.
Click to expand...

Could you please enlighten us as to why NJA pilots wouldn't be taken seriously at an interview? I know NJA pilots that have gone to UPS, Fedex, Continental and other majors. So please let me know why.
 
Dr Pepper said:
I am lucky enough to have job offers to NJA and DAL. I do not have a class date for DAL yet. I am LA bound for NJA. I have been looking at all the variables and have determined that both would be good.

Money - both suck as an FO, but NJA sucks more. As a Capt, NJA eventually appears to win out when you include soft money (holiday, per diem take home vs intl).

Insurance - NJA seems to win.

Travel benefits - DAL clear winner

Retirement - NJA has 50% match, DAL has 2% 401K no match required and 9% contribution into B-Fund. Dealers choice on the winner here. If you can afford to max out, NJA wins. If not, DAL.

Domicile - I am not a huge fan of any of them at DAL and would likely be a commuter. NJA domicile system sucks as well. It is unlikely, in my opinion, that it will ever change. Old guys won't support getting rid of it at if it affects their bottom line and unless you are in LA or TEB, you might not care too much either. I am wondering how people survive in LA. That is a lifetime of Top Ramen. This is a huge factor that gives me the most grief because it affects the next section.

QOL - Commuting would suck - DAL. Living in a closet would suck - NJA in LA. Who is the bigger pain in the arse over the years? Filthy rich or the people in the cattle cars? This is probably one of the more subjective categories to consider, but probably one of the most important

Flying - Knowing where you are going and when, or not having a clue until the gear is up. I have done the later with the military and as long as I am not the one dispatching, I have no problem with that.

Upgrade time guess - NJA 3-5 years people say. DAL 5-10 years thanks to 65.

Short term job security - NJA.

Long term job security - DAL, Delta's pilots will always be around in some form or fashion. NJA could get liquidated if an Aetna guy takes over Berkshire someday and wonders why they have an airline (assume RS and WB are dead).

Have I missed anything to consider? Who would you go with?
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Why are you even asking this question? You already know you're going to Delta, if you're trying to brag about just start a thread saying I'm going to delta and your not.
 
I wouldn't base a job on travel benefits (begging for a ride)

My wife is trying to get to cdg. She's on the third flight of the night still waiting waiting waiting.

Yeah I'll use my miles and buy a positive space ticket over that "travel bennie" anytime.
 
Allen1 said:
Could you please enlighten us as to why NJA pilots wouldn't be taken seriously at an interview? I know NJA pilots that have gone to UPS, Fedex, Continental and other majors. So please let me know why.
Click to expand...

It probably doesn't help that we refuse to remove the big red clown noses and giant oversized shoes before the interview.........:D
 
Believe me...its not bragging when you talk about going to ANY major airline.

Delta, Union Continental American, SouthWest JetBlue...all included. You're just setting yourself up for the next round of furlough/concessions.

Good luck out there folks.....it ain't what it used to be.
 
Travel Bennies

Diesel said:
I wouldn't base a job on travel benefits (begging for a ride)

My wife is trying to get to cdg. She's on the third flight of the night still waiting waiting waiting.

Yeah I'll use my miles and buy a positive space ticket over that "travel bennie" anytime.
Click to expand...

Diesel, non-rev travel is a skill that one hones over a career. You didn't mention what sort of a pass or ticket your wife was on, but Delta provides a web-site that allows you to avoid heavily booked or over booked flights. Non-rev travel is, just as you say, "begging for a ride".

Just as you wouldn't ask a street person for a hand-out, you don't try to non-rev on certain flights. I've heard hundreds of horror stories about non-revs being stranded in all sorts of places. That's the downside of getting a free ride. I can tell you that with care and pre-planning, my family (we had six kids!) and I travelled virtually everywhere we wanted and in 28 years, we spent exactly two unplanned nights in a hotel. Not a bad record for a gazillion (that's more than a hundred) free flights, many in first class or busines class!

Is it worth making a career decision over? Heck, no.

Is it a nice benefit? Yes, it is a whale of a good benefit.

Since this thread was ostensibly about DAL v NJA, various aspects weigh in. My personal opinion is that non-rev on Delta beats the airline miles I get from NetJets. Both are great benefits, but they are not equal.
 
Non-reving today can hardly be seen as the benefit it was 10 or 15 years ago.

Moneymite......things have changed, or maybe you just don't know what non-reving was back then.
 
Yeah she doesn't have enough experience non reving. She's been doing it since she was born. We've got a long line of family members in aviation. She knows the deal, knows the games, and knows that being stranded is allways a possibility.

Non reving is great if its just you and you really don't care if you get there. If you have wife or kids then non reving isn't a tool anymore like it was when I was a kid. When I had a whole row to myself and my mother worked the flight.

28 years of doing it hasn't been anything like the last 5 years and its going to get worse.

Nothanks I'll continue to pay for my seat, get my miles and not have to eye that person walking up to the counter in uniform making sure he doesn't jump ahead of me.

Pilots tend to go for the cheapest form of travel. Somehow that cheapness is considered a benefit.

I'll take the miles. And get there when I want, wearing what i want, and making sure my bloody marry has just the right spicyness to it.
 
I spent most of my career working towards getting hired at Delta. Building time, 4 year degree, etc etc... Mid 2001 got the "interview cancelled" call and headed to NJA. I now have no intention of ever applying at Delta. I love the flying at NJA and would go nuts if it were back to the Hub to Hub shuffle. But to each his own, I will never try to convince anyone one is better than the other because everyone has personal preferences. And the lav cleaning is a VERY minor inconvenience if any, not sure why it keeps coming up.
 
Pat Fabin said:
Are you really going to make your decision based on us jokers at Flightinfo? Go to Netjets, here at Delta we hire people that can make decisions.
Click to expand...

Wow this is a smart statement. I guess I will have to PM you the next time I make a decision flying a jet for NJA. Never happens we don't make decisions, only Delta guys make decisions, or are able to make them.
 
I'd go to nj. I don't want to get Munson'd.
 
RNObased said:
Wow this is a smart statement. I guess I will have to PM you the next time I make a decision flying a jet for NJA. Never happens we don't make decisions, only Delta guys make decisions, or are able to make them.
Click to expand...

I don't think he'll be able to help you with the decision though. I've worked at two 121 carriers before coming to NJA and we have to make more decisions then they do.
 
DO-82 driver said:
Non-reving today can hardly be seen as the benefit it was 10 or 15 years ago.

Moneymite......things have changed, or maybe you just don't know what non-reving was back then.
Click to expand...

When it comes to not remembering anything, I can plead guilty!

However, I've been steadily non-reving since 1978 and I am still non-reving on a very regular basis today. I count on the "big D" to get me to various destinations at least once a week and always manage to get where I need to go.

Things have changed a lot over the years. I used to wear a coat and tie, now I can wear blue jeans! I used to get ice-cream sundaes in first class and now I'm lucky to get a bottle of Daisani! Yep, things have changed.

Perhaps my expectations are low; perhaps they are just realistic. Perhaps I'm the luckiest non-rev-er (is that a word?) in the world, but I really like the benefit.

Some folks don't like the uncertainty of not knowing where in the world you'll be with NetJets for seven days; others don't mind it.

Different folks, different strokes. However, in my estimation, non-reving on Delta is a huge benefit and I'd definitely consider it on the "plus" side when chosing a career.
 
Okay in 121 land, for vacations, you get a free ride but pay for hotel.

In the fracs, I pay for the flight (or use miles) and have a ticket in hand. Then I get free hotel (points).

I think I have it better. But I would not use any type of travel benefit as the reason for going to a company.
 
Mooneymite said:
Some folks don't like the uncertainty of not knowing where in the world you'll be with NetJets for seven days; others don't mind it.
Click to expand...

It's more than that: Some of us actually like and prefer it that there's some variety and spontaneity in our trips. Today, for example, our trip ended with a one-hour rental car drive, through beautiful countryside, to our nice hotel in a quaint little town in western New York. We wandered out to look for a dinner place, and we were surrounded by restaurants that all looked and smelled great -- and not one of them was a chain place. The food and beer were absolutely fantastic, the town was historic and fun to walk around; all told, just a great stop.

I had no idea we were coming here until after lunchtime, and probably never would have bid a trip on purpose to come here, were this an airline environment. And you know what? I'd have really missed out!

Just about every week that I work, I go some place I've never been before, and more often than not, I'm glad that I did.

So no, not only do I "not mind" not knowing where I'm going to be every minute of my week, I prefer it. I guess I'm not cut out for the Clark Griswold vacation. :0 I was honestly getting bored out of my skull going in and out of the same hub over and over again. It just wasn't for me.
 
Mooneymite said:
Diesel, non-rev travel is a skill that one hones over a career. You didn't mention what sort of a pass or ticket your wife was on, but Delta provides a web-site that allows you to avoid heavily booked or over booked flights. Non-rev travel is, just as you say, "begging for a ride".

Just as you wouldn't ask a street person for a hand-out, you don't try to non-rev on certain flights. I've heard hundreds of horror stories about non-revs being stranded in all sorts of places. That's the downside of getting a free ride. I can tell you that with care and pre-planning, my family (we had six kids!) and I travelled virtually everywhere we wanted and in 28 years, we spent exactly two unplanned nights in a hotel. Not a bad record for a gazillion (that's more than a hundred) free flights, many in first class or busines class
Is it worth making a career decision over? Heck, no.

Is it a nice benefit? Yes, it is a whale of a good benefit.

Since this thread was ostensibly about DAL v NJA, various aspects weigh in. My personal opinion is that non-rev on Delta beats the airline miles I get from NetJets. Both are great benefits, but they are not equal.
Click to expand...

Mite,
Without a delta pass would you have even considered a NJA job? I don't think you live near PBI. Just an honest question.
 
CA1900...my kids love to put a tac in their wall-sized map of the U.S. when I tell them where I'm going. Though being a charter whore doesn't afford me the schedule of NJA, like you, I enjoy the spontaneous flying. Flying out of BOS today to Auburn, AL I can't tell you how many 121 guys sounded not so happy on the radio. Not that I'm the happiest camper at the KOA, but some of the East Coast fliers just sounded...well...like they hated being restricted in speed, or holding for EWR (again) or...great, another BWI turn.
 
My Friend, It really is elementary...... QOL...QOL..QOL!!!

It's all how you interpret those three letters.

I happen to enjoy the week on week off, cater to Thurston and Lovey life style I have at NJA. Having worked both ends of the spectrum 121 Vs Frac., They both have plusses and minuses.... Just go with your gut, and you wont be dissapointed.

Just dont look back when you decide.
 
Dr Pepper and I are in similar situations, except JB is my other option. I think most on here are familiar with my situation.

For us it is such a tough choice because we have no experience whatsoever in either type of flying. If I go to NJA I will always wonder how that 121 flying would have been and vice-versa. I think the majority of people who stay at NJA long term have done the 121 thing so they go to NJA knowing for sure that is what they want to do.

Which schedule is better for my family? 7/7? 4/3? I have no idea.

Will I get bored flying the same routes over and over again in 121? Probably. I know I do in the C-5. Will I like the day to day scheduling predictability? Probably.

A lot of unknowns out there as well. Will HBA come back at some point in time? If I knew for sure it was, I'd be at NJA in a heartbeat. Will JB be in business in 5 years? I think so but who knows for sure.

This flying biz is tough stuff. I appreciate all the posts and PMs I've received on the subject. A decision has to be made at some point, but the reality is that it could very well end up being the wrong one.
 
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I am trying to get out of the 121 world myself. I couldn't be more bored with this flying. I don't know if someone can turn down a Delta offer because that type of offer doesn't come around very often and Delta is set to grow. That said, Netjets offers a better lifestyle with the 7/7 and more interesting flying in my opinion. I would love to fly a G200 or Sovereign to remote and scenic airports. But instead I spend a lot of time holding near ATL or DTW. A tough choice.
 
dudemize said:
Dr Pepper and I are in similar situations, except JB is my other option. I think most on here are familiar with my situation.

For us it is such a tough choice because we have no experience whatsoever in either type of flying. If I go to NJA I will always wonder how that 121 flying would have been and vice-versa. I think the majority of people who stay at NJA long term have done the 121 thing so they go to NJA knowing for sure that is what they want to do.

Which schedule is better for my family? 7/7? 4/3? I have no idea.

Will I get bored flying the same routes over and over again in 121? Probably. I know I do in the C-5. Will I like the day to day scheduling predictability? Probably.

A lot of unknowns out there as well. Will HBA come back at some point in time? If I knew for sure it was, I'd be at NJA in a heartbeat. Will JB be in business in 5 years? I think so but who knows for sure.

This flying biz is tough stuff. A decision has to be made at some point, but the reality is that it could very well end up being the wrong one.
Click to expand...

Fortunately, you have two strong choices. Do your due diligence, ask a lot of questions from pilots at both companies, create a pro/cons list for each and then, after that analysis, go with your gut feeling. At least you don't have shiney-jet syndrome because you already fly the biggest aircraft out there (C-5)...
 
pilotpat said:
CA1900...my kids love to put a tac in their wall-sized map of the U.S. when I tell them where I'm going. Though being a charter whore doesn't afford me the schedule of NJA, like you, I enjoy the spontaneous flying. Flying out of BOS today to Auburn, AL I can't tell you how many 121 guys sounded not so happy on the radio. Not that I'm the happiest camper at the KOA, but some of the East Coast fliers just sounded...well...like they hated being restricted in speed, or holding for EWR (again) or...great, another BWI turn.
Click to expand...

My daughters High School teachers love it as each night I call her I tell her where I am and get her to look up some general details and then I take pics and she shows everyone. So she is also learning some really good geography lessons.
Now when I was 121 I missed just as many visits and birthdays as I have at the fracs. The biggest difference I am happy and she sees it.

Bailey
 
bailey3083 said:
My daughters High School teachers love it as each night I call her I tell her where I am and get her to look up some general details and then I take pics and she shows everyone. So she is also learning some really good geography lessons.
Click to expand...

Considering my 4 year old knows where Lafayette, Salina, and Jackson Hole are, I'd say when he gets into Kindergarten this fall he'll probably get the same reactions. He always asks me where I am and then has Mom help him find it most of the times, but then he remembers. Kids have great memories like that I've realized.

Someone said it earlier, man...QOL. That sums it up. I, myself, like the idea of 7 off. Most of my friends are 121 and it seems after they commute home, they get a couple days off and then its time to commute back to base. Invest in a webcam, too...my kids love it. Hell, that's how I spent my daughter's 1st birthday last December. But at least I was able to watch the entire 4 hours and chat with all my family and friends who were there.

Good luck in whatever you choose.
 
I cant imagine that you would consider DAL......All it takes a little hiccup in the economy and you'll be right back here asking us if you should come to work for a frac.......Drop the "Im an airline pilot" ego and think about your future.

but dont take my word for it.....do what you want.

my opinion.......i would leave for double salary to go for an airline.
 

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