WWYD NetJets or Delta?

[johnsonrod]

After thinking long and hard about this one, I would probably go to Delta just because I think it is the best Legacy carrier out there. I probably would go to NJA over any other 121 operation including SWA. However, Delta is another story and it is expanding like crazy this year - I hear 500 pilots will be added in 2007 alone. I've also heard that there were 30+ 757/767 FO domestic slots in Atlanta left open in the last bid - vacancies. 767ER FO (international) slots out of JFK can be bid after 1-2 years or you could even get it right off the bat if international flying is your thing (Moscow in the winter would suck but Nice, France would be fun). I believe most newhires are getting LGA MD88 but there might be some other slots available. A big 787 order will likely be announced at the Paris Air Show in a few weeks.

The types of flying are very different and you have to decide if you want more of a routine vs. more adhoc flying. Netjets is an absolute leader in its market and should be fairly solid going forward. I personally think Netjets flying would be more fun and interesting.

Tough call - both are good choices in the end. Good luck!

 

[Pat Fabin]

Hey guys, not busting on Netjets. I just get tired of reading the endless "should I work here or here" threads. I flew 135 while furloughed and always thought the Netjets guys flew for a quality operation and were great to hang out with. If I wasn't flying here at DAL, I would enjoy flying there I am sure.

But the two operations from a pilots perspective couldn't be more different. When I arrive at my destination after a long duty day, my transportation is waiting for me...I don't have to get into a rental car and find my hotel in a strange city. When my plane is broken, someone else worries about it...I don't have to babysit the airplane. My schedule is tailored as much as my seniority will allow. Since I have a line, I don't even have to give DAL my home number....just one for emergencies. The first class meals are just as delicious as yours are, except I have a bit more room to stretch out while I eat. Delta is extremely well organized...things happen as planned, generally. My family appreciates that. I don't miss flying out of tiny airports on a foggy morning, hoping I don't hit a bunch of deer at V1. I don't miss cleaning the lav and playing flight attendant. I don't miss spending hours in a hotel waiting around for something to do, although I do miss some FBO coffee (signature).

I've flown the rich and famous before and flown some nice looking, fun-to-fly business jets, but I couldn't give a rats a$$ about who I am flying around. To me, its about pay and a balance between work life and family life.

You guys at Netjets do a great job....its just at a major 121 operation, all you need to really worry about is pilot stuff and its a real pleasure.

Again...its such different styles of flying, I can't believe anyone would be at a crossroads.

 

[MississippiMud]

Hey guys, not busting on Netjets. I just get tired of reading the endless "should I work here or here" threads. I flew 135 while furloughed and always thought the Netjets guys flew for a quality operation and were great to hang out with. If I wasn't flying here at DAL, I would enjoy flying there I am sure.

But the two operations from a pilots perspective couldn't be more different. When I arrive at my destination after a long duty day, my transportation is waiting for me...I don't have to get into a rental car and find my hotel in a strange city. When my plane is broken, someone else worries about it...I don't have to babysit the airplane. My schedule is tailored as much as my seniority will allow. Since I have a line, I don't even have to give DAL my home number....just one for emergencies. The first class meals are just as delicious as yours are, except I have a bit more room to stretch out while I eat. Delta is extremely well organized...things happen as planned, generally. My family appreciates that. I don't miss flying out of tiny airports on a foggy morning, hoping I don't hit a bunch of deer at V1. I don't miss cleaning the lav and playing flight attendant. I don't miss spending hours in a hotel waiting around for something to do, although I do miss some FBO coffee (signature).

I've flown the rich and famous before and flown some nice looking, fun-to-fly business jets, but I couldn't give a rats a$$ about who I am flying around. To me, its about pay and a balance between work life and family life.

You guys at Netjets do a great job....its just at a major 121 operation, all you need to really worry about is pilot stuff and its a real pleasure.

Again...its such different styles of flying, I can't believe anyone would be at a crossroads.

I have never waited on transportation and if a plane is broke we go to a hotel if another is not available. It sounds like you have worked here, but it must have been before the new contract. The only place I would go from netjets is FedEx. Some people like trains, some like buses but a growing number likes the Fracs. I had 24 days off as a first year FO for vacation, one sick day per month, dont spend the per diem, plush hotels with free cook to order b'fast, and If you are really tired........no carpet dance with the CP, just go to the hotel for 14 hrs rest. The airlines can kiss my...........vacation days! Each to his/her own, but I am done interviewing at 28 yrs old unless China gets a nuc over this way!

 

[altscap]

Delta may be hiring 500 pilots this year, but it's still a "who's your buddy" world out there. The guy who started this thread, Dr. Pepper, has an offer from Delta with 2,200 hours total flight time and a military background; I won't begin to speculate who he knows on the Delta hiring board. I am a former Delta Employee (10 years ago) with 6,700 hours of total civilian time, the majority of which is Part 121, yet I have no contacts from my old job or with the upper echelon of Delta society. My app. has been in airapps since December and I have three letters of recommendation (non internal). All I'm getting from Delta is crickets. Am I bitter? I admit it, yes. Do I deserve the job? Maybe. Do I deserve an interview at least? Who can say. But I would still take the offer if I had it. I'll leave it up to you to decide who is more qualified.

On the other hand, I e-mailed a resume and cover letter to Netjets on May 21 and had an application in my mail box on the 28th. Everyone is talking about the pay and the types of flying. And I would LOVE to crew a 757 or 787, but, who is going to treat you like a human being and who is going to treat you like a number. Plus, I've been told that it's sometime possible to catch a NetJets flight that's headed in the general direction you might want to go during your days off. I have no idea what to expect from Netjets, but it's better than watching the deathspiral my company has entered due to inept mgmt. and I'm excited about the opportunity. Plus, the Falcon 2000EX has the most amazing avionics package I've ever seen, that's got to be worth one brownie point.

All you can do is decide what is right for your particular situation, and enjoy the unique predicament you've found yourself in.

 

[Pat Fabin]

Altscap,

I'm sorry you haven't heard from Delta yet...I've been trying to get a couple of my civillian friends on here, and they've heard nothing. Its still early in the hiring game...and right now most of the hiring is civillian too. Its a competitive world out there...many people scrambling for limited positions. You can't start thinking "I deserve a job"...that's a dead end street, my friend.

As for who will treat you like a number vs. a person? Give me a break....if a company gives you an employee number, thats what you are...a resource to be managed until you leave the company. Delta, Netjets, SWA, are all big corporations that do not exist to employee you, hold your hand, make sure you are fulfilled and happy..etc. That's for you to find. At any job, its the people that make the difference...I've been at DAL 8 years and I've made a bunch of life-long friends. I know most of the captains I fly with and we have a blast.

As for the guy that thinks he is done interviewing at 28, I certainly hope you are correct. Most people in aviation, however, have found it doesn't always play out that way.

Good luck all, you can have this "who's job is better" thread. Its funny...for the last 5-6 years the airlines have been in the crapper, all I've read on this forum is how the legacy's suck...jetBlue is the future, Independence Air will change everything, the RJDC will prevail, Delta will be gone by 2006, etc. Now that we are hiring, everyone wants an interview...everyone wants to debate contracts, everyone wants to be hired immediately. Amazing.

 

[On Your Six]

Completely different types of flying. Apples to oranges. Do you want routine or a bit of variety? Do you want to know your schedule for the entire year (7/7 at Netjets)? Do you need to fly a big, shiney jet to feel good about yourself? Both are very strong operations with Netjets as market leader and Delta on a much better foundation than it was pre-Chap 11th - it's like a different carrier with a much better financial outlook and route network. Today's Delta is on much stronger ground than yesterday's Delta and it won't be fighting for scraps like the LCC carriers due to its strong and growing international/domestic network.

I know friends at both and I know people who are planning to leave their current flying jobs for opportunities at both. For me, I am done with 121 flying - I flew for UAL pre 9/11 and I couldn't stand 121 boredom - but that is just me. To each his own. I think you could make viable arguments for both options and win either way....

P.S. I like these X vs. Y carrier posts because we get to learn so much more about the choices (until people get personal).

 

[altscap]

PF

You sound like one of the few happy pilots I've heard on this board. I wonder if you've ever been called in to the CP's office because you gave a complaining passenger the number to the corporate office and told them the name of your CEO. A friend of mine got an unpaid three-day vacation for providing good customer service in this way.

Naturally, everyone's perspective is different. It seems you have forgotten what it's like at the lower levels of the industry or have never worked for a tyrannical mgmt. team. Enjoy cloud nine my friend, you are where many of us are still trying to get to. (not a personal attack, but I wonder if you can see other peoples perspectives in this racket)

 

[learflyer]

That's what they said about Eastern. And Braniff. And TWA. And Pan Am. The fact that DAL just came out of bankruptcy is a clue that there's a long road ahead to any kind of security.



No aviation job is guaranteed to be around in the future. Not NJA, not Delta. If I had to put my money on only one of the two being around in 20 hours, it'd be NetJets.

Come on man, even flops will be around for 20 hours!:beer:

 

[learflyer]

deleted

 

[tbkane]

Having worked at both I would say Delta hands down. I was at NJ for almost two years and I have been back at Delta now for six months. I am on reserve I do commute and life couldn't be better at DAL. I was not a fan of not knowing where your going, catering to rich people cleaning lavs, etc.

PM and I can tell you more.

 

[Usual Suspect]

I work at NetJets and I've read several threads in which references are made to us having to clean lavs. To be clear, we don't have to clean the lavs. If the lav requires servicing, we will be reimbursed up to $20 no questions asked for a lav servicing. If someone's ass exploded back there, then we can have the company arrange for a professional cleaning crew to come and take care of it, or pay the FBO line service personnel whatever it costs for them to do it. If it costs $40, then pay it and submit a business card from the FBO with an explanation and we'll be reimbursed. This goes for anything unusual that happens. For example, if someone vomited, spilled their food on the floor, dropped a bottle of red wine, etc.

Remember, the cabin has to be in good condition for the next customer, or the plane is taken out of service. I've personally grounded a plane a couple of times until cleaning crews were sent out to clean up the cabin. Once because the line guy spilled blue juice on the carpet when he overserviced the lav, and another time when I found what I was pretty sure was a puddle of melted ice cream but could have been vomit when I picked up a new plane.

Having said that, we do normally do the routine tidying up between flights including wiping off tables and vacuuming. If you don't want to do even that, again you can have the line guy do it for you and be reimbursed. We use Signature quite a lot and you can always ask them for a q-cart, which is their portable cleaning cart and they'll generally do a real thorough job. But most of our planes have 7-10 seats, and most of our pax flights are 4 or less pax at a time, so it's usually quicker to just do it yourself.

 

[tbkane]

To be honest yes you don't have to "clean" the lav but on the Ultra you have to take the honey pot out and have it serviced. The ramp guys usually will say they don't know how to. As far as grounding airplanes that all depends on the captain and if he is or is not a union man. I had to clean up dog poop in the back of a cabin and the captain would not ground the airplane. The owner came up and told me there was a problem in the back that someone's dog had crapped on the floor (she was the only owner we had on the plane with a dog in five days but made it sound like it wasn't her fefe). As an fo your pilot and flight attendant unless you get lucky and get a flight attendant....

 

[bailey3083]

It is simple. You wanna work for your money, get to see great places and have a ball for your money then go to the Fracs. if you want to be a lazy ass who just shows up 30 mins prior and just to fly a plane then go to Delta. Trust me this comes from 6 yrs Part 121 and now Frac. The Frac is the best job hands down but I have seen at all Fracs the guys who are not willing to work for their paycheck usually leave and go to 121 so they can just close the door and let everyone else do the job.

Bailey

 

[Mooneymite]

DAL v NJA

I flew for Delta for 28 years and now work at NJA. Here are a couple of other things to consider:

NJA features 7 days on/7 days off. If you have a family with small children, 7 days gone is an eternity. Delta gives you the choice of 1, 2, 3, or 4 day trips...some longer on the international. I don't mind the 7 day trips, but my wife doesn't like them at all and when my kids were small, they probably wouldn't have remembered me after a 7 day trip!

The flying: Delta flying is, generally speaking, mostly boring. NJA flying is rarely boring because you'll go so many different places. After a few years at Delta, you will know every hotel and every terminal and will have eaten at all the favorite layover restaurants. You will know the price of a beer and which hotels have freebees. At NetJets, you'll only know the hotels for a few of our "core" cities, most layovers are an adventure.

I do believe that until you get 400 - 500 guys under you at Delta, you will have little, or no job security. The old Delta is gone. This management will furlough at the first sign of a downturn. I believe the market dynamics at NJA are such that a newhire is pretty safe. However good the pay at NetJets is, I don't think you can look forward to what you'll be making at Delta when you retire.

No doubt that you will work MUCH harder at NJA than at Delta. At Delta, you fly.....period. At NJA, you will do everything that needs to be done. The NJA dispatchers are good, but you've got to watch them and check everything. At Delta, you will not be doing anything that hasn't been done hundreds of times before; the dispatchers rarely let anything slip by them. At Delta, complacency is the enemy, at NJA, fatigue is the enemy.

At NJA you will never get a chance to fly the "heavy metal". NJA has three 737's flown by pilots with singel digit seniority numbers. At Delta, the 737, is the "light twin" of the fleet. At NJA, some of the aircraft feature autoflight systems that wouldn't get certified on an airliner. Delta's equipment is top notch and its fleet will soon be replaced with the latest and greatest if they don't go bankrupt again.

As much as NJA pilots tell you about the free airline miles we accumulate, the Delta pass priveleges are worth a lot more. Even as a retiree, I travel pretty much when and where and as much as I wish.

Were I faced with your decision, I'd go to Delta now and maybe go to NJA in retirement or during furlough.

And, yes, I got screwed by Delta when I retired.

 

[old*art]

If you go to Delta PLEASE do not come to NJA when you retire. If I have to try to get another retired airline pilot up to speed ......